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    UnUnited Kingdom

    Scotland vote on Thursday on whether or not they should leave the UK. Still too close to call.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk/













    12 alternatives for the Union Flag should Scotland vote for independence
    http://i100.independent.co.uk/articl...ke--lk_RdEaDNl
    Last edited by jack_christie; September 16th, 2014, 9:48 PM.
    Team Black Jack

    __________________________

    So, that's all good.

    #2
    If they vote yes, does it really matter? Will the government of Scotland actually do anything? Or is it a bit like Texas where some people would love to leave the US but legally they can't?

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by mpicco View Post
      If they vote yes, does it really matter? Will the government of Scotland actually do anything? Or is it a bit like Texas where some people would love to leave the US but legally they can't?
      At the moment the UK is governed by a Conservative and Liberal Party Coalition. There are no Conservative members of parliament in Scotland.

      If Scotland votes for independence they will be politically and mostly economically free from England. Free of UK nukes. Many pluses and many risks. Odds are Scotland will join EU, and this increases chance UK will leave EU.
      http://www.bbc.com/news/live/uk-scotland-29216377

      Stephen Colbert supports Scottish independence
      http://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-ra...h-independence





      http://www.esquire.com/blogs/culture...h-independence

      Last edited by jack_christie; September 16th, 2014, 10:25 PM.
      Team Black Jack

      __________________________

      So, that's all good.

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        #4
        It's a mess. I've grown up and lived here for 29 years and I've never been ashamed of my country until the last few weeks.

        Even growing up in the most sectarian city in the world, I've never felt like the place was so divided. I've seen people who've been friends since they were kids speaking with less respect and more aggression to each other than they ever have over shitty little issues.
        Living here, it feels like it's taken on the level of a holy war. Quasi-cult mentality is rife. People are sticking with like minded people to circle-jerk their shared opinions together and denigrate anyone on "the other side". People stopped caring about discussing what was best for the country and why a while ago. It's now just "regurgitate the article by the pseudo-journalist that attacks the side we don't agree with".
        And the divisions aren't regional, or by class, where the sides would have some physical separation. It's between co-workers and friends and neighbours.

        We've went from voter apathy and turnout around 45% for past general elections to near 100% voter turn-out - you'd think that'd be a win. But if this is the price, fuck it. Take us back.

        Some small-minded shit is tearing this country apart and it won't go away for a long time, regardless of which way the vote goes.

        Originally posted by jack_christie View Post
        Odds are Scotland will join EU, and this increases chance UK will leave EU.
        Scotland would certainly try. I believe it only takes one veto to hold us out, though, and Spain would surely veto a newly independent Scotland to not encourage their own home-grown separatists.
        Last edited by GraemeH; September 16th, 2014, 11:35 PM.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by GraemeH View Post
          Some small-minded shit is tearing this country apart and it won't go away for a long time, regardless of which way the vote goes.
          Cameron is an idiot for they way they asked the asked question and didn't bother to sort millions of issues before the vote.

          If Scotland votes yes, it will encourage Wales to try their luck too.

          Hard to believe Conservatives can win votes in the north of the UK.




          Scotland would certainly try. I believe it only takes one veto to hold us out, though, and Spain would surely veto a newly independent Scotland to not encourage their own home-grown separatists.
          Odds are the EU will have little option but to accept Scotland, anyway Spain needs to suck up to the EU and the ECB.
          Last edited by jack_christie; September 17th, 2014, 12:06 AM.
          Team Black Jack

          __________________________

          So, that's all good.

          Comment


            #6
            I've been undecided about this the whole time, changing opinion on an almost daily basis. In the end I voted by post and regret my final decision every other day...

            I also voted against my parent's wishes and now get berated on a daily basis on falling for Tory scaremongering, not thinking independently and generally being an apathetic moron who is scared of change and wilfully rejects opportunity. This descended into a shouting match the other day and was quite unpleasant. While some of this may be true, I'm a very cautious and pessimistic person in general, there seems to be no room for a middle ground. You're either a bastard Tory unionist or a stupid brainwashed nationalist depending who you support and who you're talking to.
            It's all descending into a shouting match and regardless of the outcome of the vote people are going to disagree and it's going to be mess, this on top of the fact Westminster are clearly a proven bunch of tossers and I have my doubts regards whether the SNP can actually carry out anything they say they intend to do. This could be the Lib Dems all over again, all promises and no delivery...

            I mean realistically how many voters have access to detailed financial information etc, or even the time/inclination to research the real issues that will come into effect in either scenario? Not many is my guess. The best you get is watching the opposing powers yell at each other, and to be quite frank I don't trust any politician not to be spouting pure bullshit 100% of the time so I'm thoroughly unconvinced either way...

            Thankfully my co-workers are almost all voting "no" with considerably more certainty than I did, so I've not run into many issues outside of home. To be quite frank I've taken to lying about my opinion and simply agreeing with whomever I'm talking to at the time otherwise things get messy. Especially as, despite the fact I've lived in Scotland for nearly 15 years, I am English and, in the eyes of some, am a "bad guy" by default.

            Comment


              #7
              I think Scotland would be better off remaining in the U.K. with more devolved powers. What do they have after the oil runs dry?

              Anyhow, being an early Marillion/Fish fan I am obligated to post this:

              bogative ?

              "Any car which holds together for a whole race is too heavy." - Colin Chapman
              "If you think about it breast implants aren't much different than braces. Their main purpose is to improve one's appearance, at least that's how it was in my case." - KaJun
              "So the [suspension's] spring seats fail every 2 years, so what? They cost less than $250 to fix. And if a person can't afford that every two years, than maybe he shouldn't own a car at all." - _HighVoltage_ on Volvos.

              Comment


                #8
                Team Black Jack

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                So, that's all good.

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                  #9
                  I'm very much a no person, despite having no vote. I do live twenty miles from the border, however.

                  Comment


                    #10






                    Team Black Jack

                    __________________________

                    So, that's all good.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      I must say, I haven't been as excited about a vote as I am about this for a long time, maybe ever - and I'm not even British, let alone a Scotsman. And I am both glad and impressed that nearly all Scots adult residents of Scotland seem to have registered to vote (I read about 97% or something). Given the average voter turnout in elections here is between 70% (federal elections) and below 50% (state and local elections), that gives me hope for democracy in general. Granted, the question of independence is far more decisive and important than anything that is usually decided in elections.
                      On the other hand, I'm sad about the divide that gone through the Scottish people as a result - reading what GaemeH and captain_70s was kind of sobering.

                      On the topic of the issue itself - the whole thing seems to be a clusterfuck that has spun out of control. If the media is to be believed, the SNP's idea was to use this independence scheme as a way to gain more powers for the Scottish parliament, but within the nation state of the United Kingdom - but not really become an independent country.
                      I can understand the motivation, though. London politics are so bad that it's clearly visible even from outside the country, and even more so if you visit it. No offense to anyone here, but the general state of infrastructure and things outside Central London gave me a very "1980s Eastern Bloc" feel... and the reason for that is, to my understanding, that British economic politics only caters to the financial sector. Which is, as we all know by now, evil.
                      Because of that, I started out as a supporter for Scottish independence: It would very well cause a chain reaction disrupting the UK, the European Union and in extension the whole world on a political and economical level. And I don't like the status quo on any of these levels, so...
                      Also, the Scots are generally left-leaning, so the SNP's promise of a better, more fair society seems very appealing to me, and I genuinely wish the Scots good luck on their way to achieve that - regardless of the outcome of tomorrow's vote.
                      But thinking more about it, the great economical risks (building an economy mainly on export of oil and whisky seems... couragous) are not to be denied. And while the following fall-out in rUK, in other European countries with separatist movements (Spain mainly) and the reaction from the EU would certainly drive up my consumption of crackers and Coke*, I'm not longer sure the final outcome would be a good one. But then again, that's fear talking, and I hate the tendency of societies (and myself) to give in to fear.
                      So by now, I'm don't know how I would vote if I could - but if I lived in Scotland, I had made sure of being better informed than I am now.

                      So, in one and a half days the results will be out. I'm really curious. However it turns out - all the best to the Scots. Your country is so beautiful, I'd like it to prosper so I can visit again without having to leave my first-world comfort zone.


                      * It would classically be popcorn and beer, but I don't like those.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        If the Scots are going to vote YES, knowing that they will be worse off in the long term, then good luck to them.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          From what I've seen the SNP lives in a fantasy land. There is a huge list of companies saying they'd go to England if Scotland goes, including the major banks. Scotish shipbuilding will close down devistating those local economies. The SNP says the RN will still buy ships from them but the RN has repeatedly said no. They can build ships at any UK yard they want but to allow a foreign yard to build would under EU law force an open bid process and no Scotish yard can win that kind of bid, it would go to Germany or Spain.
                          The SNP blathers on about staying on the Pound and having a say in monetary policy. They talk about being let in NATO but that somehow NATO will exempt them from the nuclear basing requirements.

                          These guys sound a lot like Quebec but less overtly racist.
                          "The beatings will continue until morale improves".

                          "Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." -Isaac Asimov

                          Comment


                            #14

































                            https://twitter.com/hashtag/tomorrow...today?src=hash
                            Last edited by jack_christie; September 17th, 2014, 9:54 PM.
                            Team Black Jack

                            __________________________

                            So, that's all good.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              So wheres the north irelands vote?

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Originally posted by jasonof2000 View Post
                                From what I've seen the SNP lives in a fantasy land. There is a huge list of companies saying they'd go to England if Scotland goes, including the major banks. Scotish shipbuilding will close down devistating those local economies.
                                They might all leave if Scotland votes yes, but they might go back if the UK leaves the EU.
                                Team Black Jack

                                __________________________

                                So, that's all good.

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                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by jack_christie View Post
                                  Should have a question mark at the end of "Thought the spiders were bad". I suppose I can't expect much from the Star though.

                                  Some of the stuff in these newspapers is starting to resemble propaganda now, specifically the bullshit bit about the kids on The Journal as posted above. I'm interested in what will happen, I wonder how this will affect the business I work for that has two offices in Scotland (probably not at all).


                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by skeleton View Post
                                    So wheres the north irelands vote?
                                    Its in one of those peace agreements that were signed, that when there is a majority of the people who wish to leave the UK, there will be a referendum. Probably be about twenty or thirty years before that happens.

                                    Status of Northern Ireland

                                    The Agreement acknowledged:

                                    that the majority of the people of Northern Ireland wished to remain a part of the United Kingdom;
                                    that a substantial section of the people of Northern Ireland, and the majority of the people of the island of Ireland, wished to bring about a united Ireland.

                                    Both of these views were acknowledged as being legitimate.

                                    The agreement reached was that Northern Ireland would remain part of the United Kingdom until a majority of the people of Northern Ireland and of the Republic of Ireland wished otherwise. Should that happen, then the British and Irish governments are under "a binding obligation" to implement that choice.
                                    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Fr...rthern_Ireland

                                    - - - Updated - - -

                                    This map shows what Europe will look like if every separatist movement gets its own country
                                    http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/politics/140917/map-shows-what-europe-will-look-if-every-separatist-movement-succeeds
                                    Last edited by jack_christie; September 17th, 2014, 10:07 PM.
                                    Team Black Jack

                                    __________________________

                                    So, that's all good.

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      Last edited by narf; September 17th, 2014, 10:14 PM.
                                      Octavia
                                      Fabia
                                      Beetle

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                                        #20





                                        - - - Updated - - -

                                        Links to join here
                                        http://www.e-f-a.org/whos-who/member-parties/
                                        Last edited by jack_christie; September 17th, 2014, 10:35 PM.
                                        Team Black Jack

                                        __________________________

                                        So, that's all good.

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