2016 USA Presidential Elections

12 million people entering another country under the cover of darkness without any authorization to do so kinda sounds like an invasion, doesn't it? The fact is that we have a huge issue with illegal border crossings and Mexico doesn't give a damn about it.


:lol: If they all came at once, yes, that would be an invasion. It took years for that many to be here.

Mexico depends on US business much more than US depends on Mexico, they simply don't have the resources to cause US any real worry.


Then why do we raise such a fuss?

Oh, I forgot. It is to pander to the paranoid along the border.

We could do far better to end the Drug War and reform the temporary worker policies over building a wall.
 
12 million people entering another country under the cover of darkness without any authorization to do so kinda sounds like an invasion, doesn't it? The fact is that we have a huge issue with illegal border crossings and Mexico doesn't give a damn about it.

You are very much mistaken.

1) As GRtak mentioned, they didn't all come at once.
2) I've said this before, you chose to forget/ignore it - more than 40% of the 12 million undocumented immigrants in the U.S. overstayed their student/work/tourist visas. At some point they came here legally - passed a background checks, were "vetted" by USCIS, passed passport control at an airport. There was no "cover of darkness" about them, we knew exactly who they were and we allowed them to enter. Then they overstayed their visa, but that's very different from "we don't know who they are and whether they are criminals."
3) Illegal border crossings at the U.S.-Mexico border are now at historically low levels. They were high in the late 90s and early 2000s, but not anymore. There are actually more Mexicans moving back to Mexico than entering the U.S. So there is no "huge issue," only Trump thinks so without looking at the actual numbers.
 
Ok, so "only" 7 million sneaked in and we don't know who they are. Is that supposed to make me feel better or something? Or am I supposed to feel bad for the people that come here on legal visas and then blatantly disregard our laws and overstay their welcome?
 
Or am I supposed to feel bad for the people that come here on legal visas and then blatantly disregard our laws and overstay their welcome?

Allowing people to stay in the US for longer than their visa duration is hardly Mexico's fault.
 
Allowing people to stay in the US for longer than their visa duration is hardly Mexico's fault.
Didn't say it was and Trump will hopefully fix that. Allowing people to illegally pass through to the US from South American countries, however, is indeed Mexico's fault.
 
Didn't say it was and Trump will hopefully fix that. Allowing people to illegally pass through to the US from South American countries, however, is indeed Mexico's fault.

LeVeL said:
Mexico doesn't give a damn about it.

There ^ and there:

the point is to make Mexico feel the pain and pressure them into negotiations that would heavily favor the US.

That blackmailing of Mexico wouldn't change the US' visa policies one bit.
 
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Didn't say it was and Trump will hopefully fix that. Allowing people to illegally pass through to the US from South American countries, however, is indeed Mexico's fault.

So what you're saying is that Mexico should keep its southern border in check, right?
 
That blackmailing of Mexico wouldn't change the US' visa policies one bit.
Changing the US's visa policies will somehow prevent criminals from illegally crossing the border? Huh?


So what you're saying is that Mexico should keep its southern border in check, right?
Probably but that's none of my concern really. I want our borders secured; what everyone else does is up to them (such as Europe).
 
So how come you expect another country to secure your borders for you?

If it is of no concern to you what Mexico does at its southern border, then it should also be of no concern to you what it does at its northern border. Stopping people from entering into the US is wholly the responsibility of the US, and I don't quite see which logic would justify "making the other country pay for a wall that's protecting us from them".
 
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Other Superpowers have these resources. And if Mexico snuggles up to them in their time of need, the Cuban Missile Crisis will feel like a fond memory compared to this ...

What other superpowers?

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Oh, I forgot. It is to pander to the paranoid along the border.

We could do far better to end the Drug War and reform the temporary worker policies over building a wall.
Preaching to the choir buddy.

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Ok, so "only" 7 million sneaked in and we don't know who they are. Is that supposed to make me feel better or something? Or am I supposed to feel bad for the people that come here on legal visas and then blatantly disregard our laws and overstay their welcome?

Honestly man I think this is more paranoia than anything else, the ones we really have to worry about are also the ones that have the resources to get around any kind of border security, we had two massive ass coasts in this country, the ones border security would stop are no threat. Any kind of terrorists and the like will be squeaky clean and come through on student or tourist visas, just like Tsarnaev bastards and the 9/11 assholes.

You know the old saying if there is a will there is a way, as long as there is an incentive to get into US people will do everything to do so. Unless you suggest we introduce a shoot on sight within say 100 feet of border policy it just won't do much.

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So how come you expect another country to secure your borders for you?

If it is of no concern to you what Mexico does at its southern border, then it should also be of no concern to you what it does at its northern border. Stopping people from entering into the US is wholly the responsibility of the US, and I don't quite see which logic would justify "making the other country pay for a wall that's protecting us from them".

Because fucking 'murrica! Come on man... On a slightly more serious note, it's about incentivizing MX to secure their northern border, not straight up having them cut a check to Trump's construction company.
 
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Changing the US's visa policies will somehow prevent criminals from illegally crossing the border? Huh?

Millions of those crossed the border legally via visa, and overstayed it. Nothing Mexico can do about that short of invading the US to get its citizens back.
 
I can understand strong-arming Mexico using trade deals as leverage, but a blank freeze on wire transfers is unfair to Mexican immigrants (and citizen children of immigrants) that went through the effort to come to the U.S. legally.
 
Ok, so "only" 7 million sneaked in and we don't know who they are. Is that supposed to make me feel better or something? Or am I supposed to feel bad for the people that come here on legal visas and then blatantly disregard our laws and overstay their welcome?

It's not supposed to make you feel better, it's supposed to make you admit you were wrong:
- you mistakenly lumped 5 million people as ones that came "under the cover of darkness."
- you say there is a "huge issue with illegal border crossings," but the facts don't support your assertion - illegal border crossings are at historically low levels.

Visa overstayers pose a problem, but it's a different issue altogether, one that is not related to the border or lack of vetting procedures.
 
It's #1 too costly (we are talking billions) , #2 not effective and #3 extremely bad optics/politics

Which makes the idea of building one insane.


*edit

We would be far better off investing in something more technological to detect people trying to cross illegally or smuggle contraband
 
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Yes or no question: are people illegally crossing the border?

If yes, build a wall.

Simple!

All that means is more tunnels.



?There have been various reports about Trump?s ties to Russia,? one of the Israeli intelligence officers said. ?The dossier is one of them, but there are others, they make other allegations. Some are more specific, and some are less. You can trust me that many intelligence agencies are trying to evaluate the extent to which Trump might have ties, or a weakness of some type, to Russia.?
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slat...a_memos_frustrated_by_lack_of_fbi_action.html

Estonian spy agency conducted surveillance of meeting of Duma deputy, Trump adviser
http://news.postimees.ee/3976043/es...lance-of-meeting-of-duma-deputy-trump-adviser

http://www.bbn.ee/article/2017/1/11...eeting-of-donald-trump-associate-pro-putin-mp
 
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Yes or no question: are people illegally crossing the border?

If yes, build a wall.

Simple!

What's the ROI on that? Especially keeping in mind that many places the wall will bisect US territory, such as the wall along the Rio Grande
 
The wall is a milquetoast solution for preventing illegal immigration, but as a make work program I see it having merit. The program would put $12 billion into wages and profits across the construction industry. Better that than a financial sector bailout. If Trump would expand it to include infrastructure improvements I'd be even more for it.
 
As a make work / construction industry subsidy program, that money would be better spent on actually useful infrastructure - bridges and stuff.
 
As a make work / construction industry subsidy program, that money would be better spent on actually useful infrastructure - bridges and stuff.

I was gonna say, there's lots more existing and useful stuff that could be funded instead of that monument to stupidity.
 
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