Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

BRexit : Shall UK stay in EU or go now?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Originally posted by MacGuffin View Post
    Indeed. I don't see them needing a visa to travel into Europe (yet) but it could become much more difficult (and expensive) for Britons to travel abroad.

    And as I said: If they some day find that it was a bad idea to leave the EU and knock on the door again, they will only be let in without any special deals or discounts. That's past history now.
    In my opinion there wont be anything left to join "some day in the future".
    This bureaucratic colussus will implode soon, is my prediction.
    "Clarkson! I know it's you, you insufferable oaf. I'm on the bloody Throne!" - James May
    "Spam is a high quality meat product" - James May
    "Is that bagpipes, or is it the sound of someone deflating a cat?" - Jeremy Clarkson

    Comment


      Originally posted by kurthest View Post
      Unrestricted travel is part of the Schengen agreement.
      I'm not so sure the UK will be ejected from this agreement just because they leave the EU..
      Norway is not in the EU, but I can still travel around Europe unrestricted.
      The UK was always an opt-out from Schengen, but somehow got away with it because it was part of the EU ("We can travel anywhere in Europe, but we don't have to let Europeans into Britain if we don't want to"). Norway is part of Schengen, but not the EU (http://www.schengenvisainfo.com/sche...ountries-list/)

      Now that the UK will be out of Schengen and out of the EU, I don't see the rationale that would allow them to keep the same travel benefits.
      Last edited by _HighVoltage_; June 24th, 2016, 1:00 PM.
      "It's the difference between watching great sex and having good sex." - Labcoatguy on the difference between an automatic and a manual gearbox.

      Comment


        Originally posted by MacGuffin View Post
        You sound like someone who hasn't read much on the subject and rather listened to what the populists have been saying.

        Get in for a surprise: The popuists LIED to you. That's the job of pied pipers like Geerd Wilders and the likes. They make you think they have a better way because they LIE to you.



        You probably renounce reality because it is too much biased in a way that contradicts your own opinion, right?

        I know people like you: They say you cannot trust the media and that we are all victims of manipulation. Why? Because what they say doesn't fit into their view of the world. They think they are right, so all others must be wrong. The logic of the ignorant. And if there is sense and logic behind what others say, it's just them manipulating people. It really is a sick way to look at the world, with us living in the best times ever for any human being.

        But it's like what I've been saying all along: People aren't made for living in satisfaction. They need problems. And if they don't get any, they come up with problems on their own.
        And just because they seem to fit into your view of the world doesn't mean you're right either.

        Lets face the facts, the EU at is has become is a colossus that's kept in check by no one, can't be held accountable, can't be voted out of power and really only favours large multinationals, banks and the people who are part of that system in the first place. Humanity has a history of left wing people/groups who seized power only to plunge society into chaos.

        I hate using Godwins but people who do the "but this Brexit is costing us money" are no different from having you country invaded in WW2 and then deciding that it would be better for your wallet if you'd just collaborate with the occupying forces. Large businesses and banks HAPPILY aided ze Germans and people of lesser resolve merrily joined the system, if only to not get in trouble. Atm we're in 1937, this time the war is waged without weapons but it's a war nonetheless. lets not wait and see what happens 2 years from now.

        Comment


          You are quite delusional, man. Stop schmoking the drugs

          Originally posted by kurthest View Post
          In my opinion there wont be anything left to join "some day in the future".
          This bureaucratic colussus will implode soon, is my prediction.
          So far only minorities are tired of the EU. The majority still favours it. So I see no immediate danger for it to implode.

          But it's also very clear that the EU needs a reform. Badly.
          Last edited by MacGuffin; June 24th, 2016, 1:05 PM.
          “If Liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear" (George Orwell)

          Comment


            Originally posted by MacGuffin View Post
            You are quite delusional, man. Stop schmoking the drugs
            I will have to agree there. We need to leave the EU because it's war? War?? While we sit and argue like little children who NEVER FUCKING LEARN, the US, China, Russia, the middle eastern countries, all sit there from far away, laughing their asses off at how Europe will never be a superpower again.

            Comment


              Originally posted by Tzarrim View Post
              Lets face the facts, the EU at is has become is a colossus
              That's one of the many bewildering statements from the anti-EU camp: If it's currently one "bureaucratic colossus" for all 28 countries, why would it be better to go back to 28 bureaucratic colossusesseses for 28 countries? To expand on the infamous banana example: why would it be better to have e.g. 28 different grading systems for produce than one? Surely you don't believe that an absence of a supranational European body would mean an abolition of all the rules and regulations that it currently governs?

              Comment


                Originally posted by mpicco View Post
                I will have to agree there. We need to leave the EU because it's war? War?? While we sit and argue like little children who NEVER FUCKING LEARN, the US, China, Russia, the middle eastern countries, all sit there from far away, laughing their asses off at how Europe will never be a superpower again.
                It IS a war, fought without weapons, yes. Your rights are being taken away from you, you're governed by some foreign entity you didn't elect nor can't get rid of.

                On a different note, the reason we won't be a "superpower" again is that we stopped raiding and pillaging other countries a while back. We grew rich because from the 1500s till the 1900s we stole everything from everyone. That will never come back, us Europeans have been "has beens" for a long while now, it's just that most people didn't realize it.

                - - - Updated - - -

                Originally posted by calvinhobbes View Post
                That's one of the many bewildering statements from the anti-EU camp: If it's currently one "bureaucratic colossus" for all 28 countries, why would it be better to go back to 28 bureaucratic colossusesseses for 28 countries? To expand on the infamous banana example: why would it be better to have e.g. 28 different grading systems for produce than one? Surely you don't believe that an absence of a supranational European body would mean an abolition of all the rules and regulations that it currently governs?
                You missed the important part: "that's kept in check by no one, can't be held accountable, can't be voted out of power". The EU was a good idea at the time and could have become something properly good. Instead it got hijacked by people who now state that politicians should stop listening to their voters, who keep making dumb decisions, who can't be held accountable and are part of a system that's so corrupt and self fulfilling it's not even funny.

                It's a problem because it's a dictatorship, not because it's "too big".

                Comment


                  Ever since the 1980's the British tabloids have been making propaganda against the EU and the political elite used the EU as a convenient scapegoat for internal British problems. No wonder that many Britons now voted with their guts and not with their brains.

                  Apparently now, after the decision was made, many for the first time make an effort and google what they actually voted for... and I wouldn't be surprised if many of the Brexit supporters wake up with a massive hangover now, wondering what they have done?

                  I will make a prediction: If the UK leaves the EU, the Scots and the Northern Irish will leave the UK and join the EU. And that means that the border between England and Scotland will become an EU external border! Good job destroying your country, Brexit supporters

                  Personally I hope the Scots will make it because I'm rather fond of their whisky and that is about the only thing I really need from UK
                  Last edited by MacGuffin; June 24th, 2016, 1:36 PM.
                  “If Liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear" (George Orwell)

                  Comment


                    And you want to be taken serious?

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Tzarrim View Post
                      You missed the important part: "that's kept in check by no one, can't be held accountable, can't be voted out of power".
                      I didn't miss it, I politely ignored it because it's nonsense. The European Parliament has only been getting more influential and powerful over the years, yet people ignore it as if it's some regional parliament in some completely irrelevant part of the world. The other EU bodies, such as the Commission, are examples of indirect democracy. Just because there wasn't a direct vote doesn't mean it's undemocratic.

                      As for "kept in check by no one": there's checks and balances on the EU level and a huge amout of influence from the nation states. "(C)an't be held accountable": how do you define accountability? Prison terms for political decisions you don't agree with? "(C)an't be voted out of power": A) The majorities in the EP depend on votes. B) The President of the Commission is also a political position, i.e. he (or she, if that ever happens) very much depends on political support. Finally, C) Do you know what the European Council is?

                      Originally posted by Tzarrim View Post
                      The EU was a good idea at the time and could have become something properly good.
                      It is something properly good. It's succeeded at the one thing people thought impossible in Europe: safeguarding peace, democracy and freedom. Nobody ever spoke of singing kumbaya and hugging each other all the time.* Its purpose always was and still is to make cooperation a better alternative than confrontation and war. I would ask you if you know of any wars between EU members, but since you've already declared that the EU itself is an instrument of war, I'll skip that part.

                      Originally posted by Tzarrim View Post
                      Instead it got hijacked by people who now state that politicians should stop listening to their voters, who keep making dumb decisions, who can't be held accountable and are part of a system that's so corrupt and self fulfilling it's not even funny.
                      If it's so horrible, where are the suggestions for an alternative? Remember that there was one: the EFTA. Heard much about that lately?

                      Originally posted by Tzarrim View Post
                      It's a problem because it's a dictatorship, not because it's "too big".
                      Absolute rubbish.

                      *apart from the anti-EU camp whenever they needed a red herring

                      - - - Updated - - -

                      Originally posted by Tzarrim View Post
                      And you want to be taken serious?
                      He's doing a much better job than you are.
                      Last edited by calvinhobbes; June 24th, 2016, 1:49 PM.

                      Comment


                        ahahaha... it would be funny, if it wasn't so sad. ... actually no, it's still funny:
                        http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...was-a-mistake/
                        2015 Seat Leon FR TDI

                        Comment


                          People can only be surprised by that if they're dumb as a slice of bread.
                          Last edited by MacGuffin; June 24th, 2016, 2:08 PM.
                          “If Liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear" (George Orwell)

                          Comment


                            Ah yes, MacGuffin defaulting to personal insults - how predictable.
                            "Men with guts attack those corners!" - Keiichi Tsuchiya
                            2006 Acura TL and 1999 Mazda Miata

                            Comment


                              Saw this on Reddit this morning and LOL'd,


                              That said, I would have voted Remain. The benefits of EU membership would have outweighed the negatives, however, there still should be a certain degree of independence for each country.
                              Where are we going and why are we in a handbasket?

                              Comment


                                I don't know enough about the situation to comment on the Brexit, but if it gets them out of TTP/TTIP, then that is one positive for them. That is something that should not happen.

                                Comment


                                  Originally posted by IceBone View Post
                                  Some people just want to watch the world burn.
                                  No shit!
                                  "I don't care who does the electing, so long as I get to do the nominating" -Boss Tweed

                                  "No man's life, liberty or happiness are safe while Congress is in session,"- Mark Twain

                                  Comment


                                    Originally posted by Tzarrim View Post
                                    It IS a war, fought without weapons, yes. Your rights are being taken away from you, you're governed by some foreign entity you didn't elect nor can't get rid of.
                                    Unless you always seem to vote for the elected officials, most people will be governed most their lives by someone they didn't elect. And many times when they do vote for whomever is eventually elected, that vote is often "against" the other party more than for the one you voted. It's been like that in western democracies for a while, most countries are governed in turn by 2 big political parties, result of the "first-past-the-post" voting system which is horrible and obsolete (check these videos if you don't know what that is).

                                    So if you think breaking away from the EU will automatically mean you're gonna be ruled by "who you want" then you're very wrong.

                                    Comment


                                      Originally posted by MacGuffin View Post
                                      I will make a prediction: If the UK leaves the EU, the Scots and the Northern Irish will leave the UK and join the EU. And that means that the border between England and Scotland will become an EU external border! Good job destroying your country, Brexit supporters

                                      Personally I hope the Scots will make it because I'm rather fond of their whisky and that is about the only thing I really need from UK
                                      Don't forget Gibraltar, losing EU means the world to them.

                                      BBC: Brexit: Spain calls for joint control of Gibraltar

                                      Originally posted by Tzarrim View Post
                                      And you want to be taken serious?
                                      He made some valid points while you went with the edgy hyperbole. Credibility is not a handout.

                                      Comment


                                        Spain should now invade Gibraltar, take it, and now if the UK wants to put up a fight it'll be against the whole of the EU, then we'll have the war Tzarrim so much wants!




                                        disclaimer: Im absolutely kidding.

                                        Comment


                                          Originally posted by calvinhobbes View Post
                                          Its purpose always was and still is to make cooperation a better alternative than confrontation and war.
                                          Wait, so if the UK is not part of the EU they end up in a war? What if the Netherlands leave, do we end up in war? How about the EU being morons and trying to seize the Ukraine, how does that affect any possible wars?
                                          Last edited by Tzarrim; June 24th, 2016, 2:47 PM.

                                          Comment

                                          Working...
                                          X