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BRexit : Shall UK stay in EU or go now?

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    #61
    Originally posted by neutron View Post
    I have no clue about UKs internal politics, but from an external politic perspective I can assure that Vladimir Putin is getting all giddy about Brexit talks. UK leaving would weaken Europe and that's exactly what Russia wants.
    Agree, even talking about leaving (or expelling a member, aka Greece) already shows weakness.
    Russia is becoming weird again. It's like a leader with too much power seeking to go back to former glories. Where have we seen that before?

    If the british people want to leave, then nobody can force them to stay, doing so would even make more people want to leave, that's how things work. Personally I think it's a big mistake. Europe can only compete in a even footing with the other powers if it stands united, not as many divided bickering little countries.
    Last edited by mpicco; March 2nd, 2016, 9:56 PM.

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      #62
      Saying we'd be isolated and therefore weaker; a scare mongering tactic from the Eurozone??? (The Eurozone for the uninitiated is the group of countries who have the Euro as it's currency). Trade will always be important to the future of the UK, so to say that GB exiting the EU would give GB 100% of the responsibility is a bad thing is bit like a Partnership with no exit strategy set in motion for any of its partners. If GB wanted to become a sole trader, it'll still be in NATO for it's defence spending, it'll still have a seat on the UN security council, liberties here would/should remain the same... the only thing that might change are just measurements and no shared responsibility of the EU.
      Last edited by topgearwascool; March 4th, 2016, 3:23 PM.

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        #63
        The majority of trade (imports, exports) the UK does, is with EU countries. You're very naive if you think the UK would be completely independent from the EU. It would be as independent as Switzerland -- which has lots and lots of biliateral treaties with the EU in order to keep the trade alive. Switzerland has to play by EU rules without having anything to say in Europe.

        So yes, on paper the UK would be independent but in reality it would still have to play by EU rules -- with no influence at all. Yes, you'd no longer have to pay into the EU pot but also wouldn't receive any benefits at all.

        This can work out -- but only if your island becomes a factory ground for foreign companies, from Asia to America, with rather low wages for the workers. Basically that is what it is already now because the UK has no own industry left worth to mention. Even the Dyson vacuum cleaners are being made in Malaysia. What you have, is a few brands and products that sell only within Britain, I'll grant you that. But if they're only being sold there, it probably means nobody wants them elsewhere or they're not competitive.

        As I said: It can work out for you somehow but the majority of the British population will have to accept that they'll get poorer and that their money won't be worth much anymore. For instance, say goodbye to the Mediterranean beaches for holidays or to skiing in the Alps. That won't effect the rich upper class in Britain, though. I predict that difference between rich and poor will grow bigger, too.

        And don't kid yourself with believing your old connection through your history of colonization will help you out much. With the exception of India, none of the markets in the Commonwealth countries can even start to compensate for the EU. And India can't be bothered with Britain anyway.

        Basically Britain would be alone against the rest of the world -- like Switzerland. But Switzerland actually has a working economy and a working industrial backbone. Britain only has banks...

        I really would like Britain to remain in the EU because I feel they belong with the rest of Europe. But if they decide they rather want to be left alone, so be it. Sad but all I could do was to shrug
        Last edited by MacGuffin; March 4th, 2016, 6:08 PM.
        “If Liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear" (George Orwell)

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          #64
          Let's not resort to insulting others, it just creates aggro which is not conducive to intelligent discussion.

          My opinion is that the UK leaving EU would be a disaster, most of the UK's trade is with EU members, to leave would be a massive step backwards.

          Claiming to be part of a master race, makes you an idiot, nothing else, enjoy wellowing in your pit of bottomless ignorance.

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            #65
            What if GB exiting makes the EU poorer?

            What if...
            I mean, like a lot poorer, like... 50% poorer...
            Could that happen
            and the IMF credit rating turns out to favour an independent trading GB when compared to Eurozone as well as EU (wth out GB) as a whole.

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              #66
              Originally posted by MacGuffin View Post
              Basically Britain would be alone against the rest of the world -- like Switzerland. But Switzerland actually has a working economy and a working industrial backbone. Britain only has banks...

              A Brexit would make it easier to push through a financial transaction tax, something that would make the Tories apoplectic
              Team Black Jack

              __________________________

              So, that's all good.

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                #67
                http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/s...20160307106893

                [...] A MAN is planning to carefully assess the risks and benefits of Britain leaving the EU then just vote on the basis of not liking immigrants, he has announced.
                When you hear and read about the opinions in GB - you can get the feeling that there is more truth to this than one may think.

                beautiful language - milk&water - baseball vs. football - best god in show

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                  #68
                  People from GB with EHIC cards currently in hospital need to know that NO MATTER WHAT they'd be taken care of.
                  So someone who hurts themselves while in another country in the EU with a valid EHIC should know, if they're in hospital and they're receiving treatment and for, whatever reason, are not repatriated and the UK does Brexit, then; There has to be some guarantee that their medical bills will be taken care of DESPITE UK exiting the EU; Things like this should not pressure ANY nation to stay, we all must have an exit strategy, I think, every country who joins the EU should know; THERE WILL BE NO REPROCUSSIONS IF THEY EXIT THE EU.

                  - - - Updated - - -

                  If there are, that should be illegal and I'd want to see the EU in court. Creating a partnership without an exit plan for 1; threatening to create an oligopoly with the Euro currency for 2!

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                    #69
                    Bilateral treaties about a lot of things would of course be negotiated but don't think for a second that you can leave and still take advantage of the goodies.
                    “If Liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear" (George Orwell)

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                      #70
                      Originally posted by MacGuffin View Post
                      Bilateral treaties about a lot of things would of course be negotiated but don't think for a second that you can leave and still take advantage of the goodies.
                      Or, the EU doesn't work? - Has that thought ever crossed your mind McGuffin?

                      Its open boarder policy and non federalised government has opened the door to migrants pouring into the EU.

                      - - - Updated - - -

                      It's just a trade deal that got confused with sovereignty.

                      - - - Updated - - -

                      You get entry into the EU in Greece or Turkey, and head west.
                      Last edited by topgearwascool; March 9th, 2016, 3:56 PM.

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                        #71
                        Originally posted by topgearwascool View Post
                        Its open boarder policy and non federalised government has opened the door to migrants pouring into the EU.
                        Sorry, no.

                        War and poverty have done that.

                        You get entry into the EU in Greece or Turkey, and head west.
                        Turkey is not part of the EU, yet migrants pass through Turkey anyway.

                        Your reasoning is wrong.

                        I tell you what, from a non-UK perspective: should the borders close, my country would still left migrants flee wherever they want to go, because if you don't care for us, why the heck should we care for you. If those migrants want to reach the UK, let them reach it... why should we stop them?

                        I'm sure even France will make you pay dearly to improve coastal control and avoid shady boats crossing the english channel full of desperate souls.

                        Don't ask for any help with migrants if you get out of the EU. They want to go to the UK, it's your problem, not ours.

                        Do you see why your point is silly?
                        Going fast out of rage, pride or boredom is like buying a ticket to crash.

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                          #72
                          Hmmm... So you're suggesting that, if GB exit the EU, the immigration crises'll still be 'at our door' waiting at Calais bent on getting to the UK? - Only a UK with out the EU'll be charged 'for some reason' by France in the EU because migrants are coming to the UK. And no one can do a thing about where they're coming from or stop them from coming?

                          - - - Updated - - -

                          Besides, I don't know who pays for that border... - But when I used it (and I have used it)... It looked British to me, even though it was in France.
                          It looked like everybody must work that in shifts or something and take the boat back to Dover at the end of their shift... UK government looking border, in Calais.
                          But again, I don't know, but, if I was to hazard a guess, it's like, UK doesn't do open borders, so MAYBE UK pays a lot for it's borders it has? So France and Ireland don't have to pay for their borders to the UK because that wouldn't be fair because it's something the UK'll be imposing on to them?? for example - idk.

                          - - - Updated - - -

                          Internally for Great Britain...

                          This year could either be the downfall of David Cameron or Boris Johnson.

                          (Like losing the Scottish referendum did for Alex Salmond).
                          Last edited by topgearwascool; March 10th, 2016, 10:26 PM.

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                            #73
                            Originally posted by topgearwascool View Post

                            Hmmm... So you're suggesting that, if GB exit the EU, the immigration crises'll still be 'at our door' waiting at Calais bent on getting to the UK?
                            Yes. the refugees and immigrants are coming to the UK anyway, otherwise they would stay in France.

                            Originally posted by topgearwascool View Post
                            Only a UK with out the EU'll be charged 'for some reason' by France in the EU because migrants are coming to the UK. And no one can do a thing about where they're coming from or stop them from coming?
                            Oh yes, there will be a lot of looking the other way, after all it's a British problem anyway.

                            Anyway, the real problem of the UK leaving the EU is trade and it would be catastropic for British trade & businesses. Therefore the establishment won't allow that to happen.

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                              #74
                              Now all those elitist, leftist Scientists and smart people have come out against the Brexit ...

                              http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...st-Brexit.html


                              beautiful language - milk&water - baseball vs. football - best god in show

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                                #75
                                It's not only scientists. A not too small part of the British healthcare system consists of doctors from the EU, too.
                                “If Liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear" (George Orwell)

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                                  #76
                                  Originally posted by MacGuffin View Post
                                  It's not only scientists. A not too small part of the British healthcare system consists of doctors from the EU, too.
                                  Because that's where the money is?


                                  IDK...

                                  There seems to be a lot of migration to London, skilled/unskilled; from all parts of the world, EU and non EU alike (like from the USA to Japan).

                                  I'm not saying it's a bad thing; it just seems like; Loads of people want to come; so GB's got to be doing something right, right?
                                  Last edited by topgearwascool; March 11th, 2016, 11:48 AM.

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                                    #77
                                    Jeremy Clarkson: Broadcaster Advocates for Britain to Remain in European Union

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                                      #78
                                      The comments make me weep.

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                                        #79
                                        No surprise there.
                                        “If Liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear" (George Orwell)

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                                          #80
                                          EU lists large parts of Wales and other parts of the UK, in the same category for EU Structural grants as parts of former East block countries
                                          Team Black Jack

                                          __________________________

                                          So, that's all good.

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