Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

The Trump Presidency - how I stopped worrying and learned to love the Hair

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Originally posted by Blind_Io View Post

    Then why do you keep defending a party, president, and their transparent plan to do exactly that? They are cutting taxes while wanting to funnel more money to the military, a pointless border wall, a futile enforcement approach to substance use, and Trump's nearly weekly travel to his resorts? That money has to come from somewhere, you oppose deficit spending, but somehow don't think that the deficit will go up because of this. The only other option is to take money from social services.

    You can say whatever you want when backed into a corner, but the fact is that you do support cutting social services because you are supporting a plan that leaves no other option; you support a party that has made it abundantly clear that they want to do away with social programs despite all the evidence that they are cheaper than the alternative. Let's look at drug policy: the policy makers you support are using the same approach that tried and failed in the 1950s, 60s, 70s, 80s, and 90s - and it will fail again. About 115 people die every day due to opioid addiction, drug manufacturers have shipped over 20 million pills to some small towns, cheap Chinese Fentanyl has flooded the market (50-100 times stronger than morphine and 30-50 times stronger than heroin), but Trump has stated that he wants to "get tough with the drug pushers on the streets" instead of funding recovery programs, prevention programs, prison diversion programs, or any of the other solutions we know are actually effective.

    Put your money where your mouth is - if you really don't want to defund social programs then stop fucking supporting people who do!
    You're confusing me with your own image of a Trump supporter. Although I don't have a problem with military spending (to a degree, see below) and I do support the wall, I certainly do not support this administration's position on drugs/opioids. Listen to prizrak - he's outlined several ways we can reduce spending. I do think that we should end the war on drugs; we need incarceration reform; we should tie benefits to work/volunteering/education; government slack and redundancy can be cut; we can stop getting so involved overseas (and then cut military spending based on that); etc. There's plenty that we can do but neither party is willing to do it. I really like where Trump is on economics and a few other areas but that by no means indicates that I support everything he does unequivocally (this isn't the first time I'm saying this).

    So yeah, we should help the deficit by cutting spending, not by simply taking more of my money. You don't balance a wasteful teenager's credit card bill by raising their limit or by handing them their sibling's card too, you slap em on the wrist and tell them to quit buying stupid shit.
    "Men with guts attack those corners!" - Keiichi Tsuchiya
    2006 Acura TL and 1999 Mazda Miata

    Comment


      Originally posted by calvinhobbes View Post
      Thanks for putting words in my mouth.


      ...and who could argue with that sort of logic?

      I'm afraid that you haven't even begun to understand why I have a problem with Trump's tax cuts. I'm also not at all sure that you actually want to.
      Considering that you put all of two sentences together to "explain" your position it's not exactly clear to anyone who does not posses telepathic abilities to even begin to understand what you are trying to say. Making me think that you are the one who doesn't want people to understand what your position is. Or perhaps you simply want an easy way out of your argument by claiming "that's not what I meant".
      Last edited by prizrak; February 8th, 2018, 5:24 PM.
      ScarFace88 - "So you're a dildo?"

      Comment


        Originally posted by LeVeL View Post
        You're confusing me with your own image of a Trump supporter. Although I don't have a problem with military spending (to a degree, see below) and I do support the wall, I certainly do not support this administration's position on drugs/opioids. Listen to prizrak - he's outlined several ways we can reduce spending. I do think that we should end the war on drugs; we need incarceration reform; we should tie benefits to work/volunteering/education; government slack and redundancy can be cut; we can stop getting so involved overseas (and then cut military spending based on that); etc. There's plenty that we can do but neither party is willing to do it. I really like where Trump is on economics and a few other areas but that by no means indicates that I support everything he does unequivocally (this isn't the first time I'm saying this).

        So yeah, we should help the deficit by cutting spending, not by simply taking more of my money. You don't balance a wasteful teenager's credit card bill by raising their limit or by handing them their sibling's card too, you slap em on the wrist and tell them to quit buying stupid shit.


        If those receiving benefits could work, the vast majority would work. Instead what will happen is that many that are marginal, with a chance to bounce back and go back to work on their own, or create some sort of work that will provide for them, will never get the chance because they are forced into doing work that will set them back.


        You also don't fix a deficit problem by cutting taxes and not reducing spending. That is what the Republicans have done most of my life. The one exception is Bush Sr, and he got voted out of office for expressing the idea of raising taxes.
        "I don't care who does the electing, so long as I get to do the nominating" -Boss Tweed

        We’ve gone from 'Hope and Change' to 'Hope and Change Your Story.' -Bill Maher

        Comment


          Originally posted by LeVeL View Post
          You're confusing me with your own image of a Trump supporter. Although I don't have a problem with military spending (to a degree, see below) and I do support the wall, I certainly do not support this administration's position on drugs/opioids. Listen to prizrak - he's outlined several ways we can reduce spending. I do think that we should end the war on drugs; we need incarceration reform; we should tie benefits to work/volunteering/education; government slack and redundancy can be cut; we can stop getting so involved overseas (and then cut military spending based on that); etc. There's plenty that we can do but neither party is willing to do it. I really like where Trump is on economics and a few other areas but that by no means indicates that I support everything he does unequivocally (this isn't the first time I'm saying this).

          So yeah, we should help the deficit by cutting spending, not by simply taking more of my money. You don't balance a wasteful teenager's credit card bill by raising their limit or by handing them their sibling's card too, you slap em on the wrist and tell them to quit buying stupid shit.
          So why do you keep defending Trump? In one sentence you say how you don't like his economic policies, and then say, "I really like where Trump is on economics". His economics are the very thing we are questioning, and when we break it down you say you disagree with him on individual decisions - so why do you continue to support him? We are back to where we were before - you can't have it both ways. You are supporting an unhinged narcissist - a guy who openly admires despots and who doesn't see the irony in a five-time draft dodger throwing himself a military parade for himself. A guy who sets policy via Twitter and "jokes" about treason. His staff backpedals more than any group I've ever seen.

          No trees were killed in the transmission of this message;
          but a stupendous number of photons and electrons were terribly inconvenienced.

          Comment


            Perhaps listing things he does agree with would paint a better picture. Economic systems are very large and it seems perfectly reasonable to not be absolute in like or dislike, so your agreement with someone's policies depend on how much weight you give to any bit of them against others.

            Or it would throw more clean coal into the fire, I'm not sure at this point.
            Last edited by gaasc; February 8th, 2018, 8:53 PM.

            <Ice> Oh, you're the kiddy anime guy.
            "The problems of the world cannot possibly be solved by skeptics or cynics whose horizons are limited by the obvious realities. We need men who can dream of things that never were."
            — John F. Kennedy

            Comment


              I'm neither humping Trump's leg nor foaming at the mouth enraged. Most of the things I dislike about Trump are things that I dislike about all politicians from both parties and why I lean libertarian. For example, both Dems and Reps support the drug war, support wars abroad, etc and Trump is no different on that front. Where he IS different is that he's been great for the economy so far, I'm a huge fan of the tax cuts (both personal and corporate), he's created job growth, etc. So I dislike him on stiff I dislike about all mainstream politicians but I think he's doing great on a lot of other stuff. You keep painting me as a die-hard Trump supporters that loves everything about him and that's not the case and never has been; it's just that we've been discussing topics lately that I agree with him on for the most part.
              "Men with guts attack those corners!" - Keiichi Tsuchiya
              2006 Acura TL and 1999 Mazda Miata

              Comment


                Do you have any evidence at all that he is good for the economy? We have had 10 years of steady growth that had nothing to do with Trump. His tax cuts have thrown the market into turmoil due to the ballooning deficit. Even Bloomberg is reporting on it, and they aren't alone. The problem is that you can't have the social programs you say you support and the tax cuts you say you support. You have to pick the funding or the program. There is nothing to indicate Trump has created job growth, the economy was rebounding long before he was in office and he is so impotent as a leader he managed to pass only one bill of significance - and even then he managed to make a tax cut unpopular. That tax cut only just went into effect, so it could not have had anything to do with job growth over the past year. Kimberly-Clark used their tax cut to pay for layoffs, WalMart and Carrier are both laying people off, Comcast fired 500 after saying the tax cut would protect jobs, AT&T did the same thing. At the same time, most these companies are paying out even larger bonuses to their executives. Hell, WalMart alone accounts for 100,000 workers and they announced the closing of 150 stores.

                All of this since the tax cut was passed late last year. So how in the holy hell do you honestly say that these cuts are creating jobs? Also, why is it even necessary? We are already at full employment, there is no need to stimulate job growth right now, most industries have a shortage of labor as it is thanks to 10 years of steady growth. The problem is that despite this, wages have remained stagnant. Once you account for inflation, people are making about the same money they did over 40 years ago. The tax cuts disproportionately benefit the wealthy, Paul Ryan made a fool of himself by touting how great it was that a teacher was bringing home and extra $1.50 per pay check. In the mean time, billionaires are saving millions each year and getting nice new tax loopholes.

                You keep arguing for trickle down economics. Let me ask you this: If the top 1% already control 40% of the money, how much more do they need to control before the rest of us start to see some of it? You say you are Libertarian and opposed to regulations, but we tried that already and it didn't work. The rich got richer and hoarded wealth, paying as little as possible to workers.


                No trees were killed in the transmission of this message;
                but a stupendous number of photons and electrons were terribly inconvenienced.

                Comment


                  Haven't you figured out Level has fallen for the old "panem et cirences" (in this case, tax cuts and every day reality show drama) strategy of populist demagogues? He's far beyond gone and too proud to admit he is.

                  Comment


                    Remember that Democratic version of the memo? Well, the President has sent it back to the commission for some adjustments. It may get released later...


                    Does anyone still believe that the first memo was anything more than a smear job?
                    "I don't care who does the electing, so long as I get to do the nominating" -Boss Tweed

                    We’ve gone from 'Hope and Change' to 'Hope and Change Your Story.' -Bill Maher

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Blind_Io View Post

                      You keep arguing for trickle down economics. Let me ask you this: If the top 1% already control 40% of the money, how much more do they need to control before the rest of us start to see some of it? You say you are Libertarian and opposed to regulations, but we tried that already and it didn't work. The rich got richer and hoarded wealth, paying as little as possible to workers.
                      Standing Ovation.

                      But there's more: if the 1% controls 40% of the wealth, it means that 60% is for the rest of the people. If the ration change, say 50%-50%, it means the majority has a smaller ratio, so wouldn't it be better to leave it at the 40%-60% ratio? Trickle down all you want, but it still means a lesser part for the masses, as 50% will laways be less than 60%.

                      Just like in Monopoly, the board game, in the end the richest gets all, and the rest get nothing. The only ways to change it are putting new resources into the system, redistribute part of the money of the richest or redistribute all of the money of the richest after having destroyed the richest.

                      Since the "new resources" option is independent from our will, and the destructive redistribution means violence, the only feasible way is a consensually agreed redistribution.
                      Going fast out of rage, pride or boredom is like buying a ticket to crash.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Blind_Io View Post
                        Do you have any evidence at all that he is good for the economy?
                        Aside from logic and common sense? Sure: http://thehill.com/opinion/finance/3...it-for-economy


                        Originally posted by Blind_Io View Post
                        We have had 10 years of steady growth that had nothing to do with Trump.
                        The market goes UP right after a historic low? Ya don't say...

                        This is getting really annoying. Just the other day I explained to you that the market stagnated for almost two years before the election before rocketing under Trump but you're just completely blind (no pun intended) to the facts.


                        Originally posted by Blind_Io View Post
                        His tax cuts have thrown the market into turmoil due to the ballooning deficit.
                        i don't remember the left being so concerned about the deficit when Obama increased it more than any other POTUS. Hmm... It's almost as if you're biased AND not listening to me when I say I'm against deficit spending.



                        Originally posted by Blind_Io View Post
                        The problem is that you can't have the social programs you say you support and the tax cuts you say you support. You have to pick the funding or the program.
                        I'm going to try explaining this one more time and make it as simple as I can:

                        Surplus/deficit = (taxes) - (spending LeVeL approves of) - (spending LeVeL disapproves of)

                        Basic arithmetic tells us that we can leave (spending LeVeL approves of) alone, decrease (spending LeVeL disapproves of), and come out on top.



                        Originally posted by Blind_Io View Post
                        There is nothing to indicate Trump has created job growth...
                        You mean other than companies crediting him for job growth?


                        Originally posted by Blind_Io View Post
                        ... even then he managed to make a tax cut unpopular.
                        I have fantastic news: you, yes YOU, can help balance the federal budget! It's easy too, all you have to do is put your money where your mouth is, go to pay.gov, and give back the tax cut that you say you hate so much. Forgive me if I don't hold my breath waiting on you (or any other leftie) to deliver.
                        ​​​​

                        Originally posted by Blind_Io View Post
                        All of this since the tax cut was passed late last year. So how in the holy hell do you honestly say that these cuts are creating jobs? Also, why is it even necessary? We are already at full employment, there is no need to stimulate job growth right now, most industries have a shortage of labor as it is thanks to 10 years of steady growth. The problem is that despite this, wages have remained stagnant. Once you account for inflation, people are making about the same money they did over 40 years ago. The tax cuts disproportionately benefit the wealthy, Paul Ryan made a fool of himself by touting how great it was that a teacher was bringing home and extra $1.50 per pay check. In the mean time, billionaires are saving millions each year and getting nice new tax loopholes.
                        What the hell are you talking about? The middle class got a huge tax break, where are you getting $1.50 from? Also, the wealthy did not get some magical fruitloophole cut - for example, the mortgage deduction went way down.


                        Originally posted by Blind_Io View Post
                        You keep arguing for trickle down economics. Let me ask you this: If the top 1% already control 40% of the money, how much more do they need to control before the rest of us start to see some of it? You say you are Libertarian and opposed to regulations, but we tried that already and it didn't work. The rich got richer and hoarded wealth, paying as little as possible to workers.
                        Try working for it. When I found my current job I got a 60% increase over the one I was leaving. Completely self-made, living the American dream, so forgive me if I don't shed any tears for Democrats who want me to support their Utopian idiocy at my own expense. All your wealth redistribution schemes are communist theft (redundant, I know).

                        Anyways, I don't have a problem with wealth inequality. In the US we have a lot of wealth inequality but the poor are better off than the middle class in more-equal shitholes of the world, so isn't that a good thing?
                        ​​
                        "Men with guts attack those corners!" - Keiichi Tsuchiya
                        2006 Acura TL and 1999 Mazda Miata

                        Comment


                          You keep using your own opinion or PR bullshit as"proof" while hanging the "common sense" sign on it. Calling something "common sense" is just another way of saying "because I said so".

                          Here's a news break for you, companies lie. The tax break is good for their bottom line, but we've seen some of the biggest employers use the tax break to cut jobs, not add them. They are using this to pay dividends to the rich and bonuses to already overpaid executives,it is not funding wage growth. Where am I getting $1.50? Paul-fucking-Ryan, one of the key architects of this cluster fuck. He proudly tweeted about how great it was this teacher was getting an extra $1.50 every two weeks - then he deleted it when he was mercilessly ridiculed for it. This from the same group that said people could remodel their kitchen with a few thousand dollars or buy health insurance if they only skipped picking up that new iPhone. The people that wrote this bill are completely out of touch with reality and you have gone to join them

                          Your "basic math" leaves zero budget and zero taxes. All spending falls into one of two categories for you, stuff you approve of and stuff you don't. You subtracted both of those from the taxes value.

                          You still claim that companies are making job growth when we are at max employment and I listed literally hundreds of thousands of jobs that have been cut just since the tax plan passed. You are still coming the lobbying bullshit companies said to get their handout. Your one link is an opinion piece from a Fox News writer and former head of a fossil fuel investment group. She also hasn't done anything except be a talking head since the early 1990s. So when will you get real?

                          At this point we can't have a rational conversation because you are delusional. Over the course of this thread various users have cited overwhelming evidence that you are wrong, but you persist in this fixed belief despite everything to the contrary. You have engaged in whataboutism, distractions and "b-b-b-but the Democrats/her emails/whatever you can think k of".

                          Level, I mean this in the most sincere way possible, at this point I don't know if you really are this thickheaded or are just really good at trolling.
                          Last edited by Blind_Io; February 10th, 2018, 11:02 AM.

                          No trees were killed in the transmission of this message;
                          but a stupendous number of photons and electrons were terribly inconvenienced.

                          Comment


                            a) Many companies have increased wages, given out bonuses, and expanded production in the US.
                            b) You should revisit my little math problem because I don't think you quite grasped it.
                            c) I feel the same way you do - I haven't known you to be stupid in the years we've both been on here so I don't know if YOU'RE trolling, only read leftist sources, or what. It's a shame that we have such polarizing views on politics but at least you haven't descended to the point of arguing with me in every possible thread just because (which others have done and I truly hope you will continue not to do). We're just going to have to agree to disagree on this and get back to discussing cars, cigars, and guns.
                            ​​​​​​
                            ​​​​
                            "Men with guts attack those corners!" - Keiichi Tsuchiya
                            2006 Acura TL and 1999 Mazda Miata

                            Comment


                              The difference is that you're the only one calling Blind stupid, where as it's been dozens of us calling you on your bullshit, Level. At some point the penny should drop that your asshole is becoming jealous of the amount of shit your mouth is pushing out.

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by mpicco View Post
                                The difference is that you're the only one calling Blind stupid...
                                I have done nothing of the kind. In fact, I just said the exact opposite in literally my last post.


                                Originally posted by mpicco View Post
                                At some point the penny should drop that your asshole is becoming jealous of the amount of shit your mouth is pushing out.
                                Even if the majority agrees, doesn't mean they're right. If you go to T_D will you automatically become wrong because you're outnumbered? Whatever, enjoy your echo chamber.
                                "Men with guts attack those corners!" - Keiichi Tsuchiya
                                2006 Acura TL and 1999 Mazda Miata

                                Comment


                                  Originally posted by LeVeL View Post
                                  Even if the majority agrees, doesn't mean they're right. If you go to T_D will you automatically become wrong because you're outnumbered? Whatever, enjoy your echo chamber.
                                  This forum has people from all over the world, from all backgrounds, from both genders, etc. It is not an echo chamber. Your point is entirely moot.

                                  Comment


                                    I resent the implication that I only read or cite "leftist" sources. I believe I have cited Bloomberg, the Wall Street Journal as well as other right-leaning publications. You are entitled to your own opinion, you are not entitled to your own facts.

                                    The fact is that claims by the GOP are three times more likely to be false than claims by Democrats. The right simply is not in touch with reality; when you make policies based on belief, "common sense", self-serving interests, or tradition rather than facts those policies will be flawed. The fiscal policies you propose are not evidence-based; they are dogmatic, not factual.

                                    No trees were killed in the transmission of this message;
                                    but a stupendous number of photons and electrons were terribly inconvenienced.

                                    Comment


                                      Originally posted by Blind_Io View Post
                                      I resent the implication that I only read or cite "leftist" sources. I believe I have cited Bloomberg, the Wall Street Journal as well as other right-leaning publications. You are entitled to your own opinion, you are not entitled to your own facts.

                                      The fact is that claims by the GOP are three times more likely to be false than claims by Democrats. The right simply is not in touch with reality; when you make policies based on belief, "common sense", self-serving interests, or tradition rather than facts those policies will be flawed. The fiscal policies you propose are not evidence-based; they are dogmatic, not factual.
                                      Until you start quoting Breitbart and Fox News we won't take you seriously!!!
                                      ScarFace88 - "So you're a dildo?"

                                      Comment


                                        The funny thing is I nearly did quote Fox News, but wanted to make sure the information was accurate. I checked three other sources before posting and intentionally linked to a less polarized source; I wanted the information to be as accessible and factual as possible.

                                        No trees were killed in the transmission of this message;
                                        but a stupendous number of photons and electrons were terribly inconvenienced.

                                        Comment


                                          Originally posted by Cryptopygia View Post
                                          Trump, meanwhile, is busy blaming the drop on the media. Because of course he would.
                                          Trump will never own anything negative - in the sense of taking responsibility "the buck stops here"- sort of way. Remember when he took credit for airline safety last year? He's sure not taking credit for those trains jumping out of their tracks in the last couple of months ...

                                          But as I always keep saying - that's all nothing new. Look at any court trial against Trump in the past - this was all well known in advance. That's the guy people elected and him being that way will not persuade those 30% die-hard supporters of him not to vote for him again ... they know what kind of person they are voting for and they support. So let's not kid ourselves that proving (again and again) Trump is a liar, is a bad person, has an awful character - etc - will hurt him in his relection chances. It's a problem for Republicans seeking reelection - but they are the ones metaphorically "in bed" with the man and have to live with their decisions.
                                          Last edited by Interrobang; February 11th, 2018, 8:02 AM.

                                          beautiful language - milk&water - baseball vs. football - best god in show

                                          Comment

                                          Working...
                                          X