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Analysis on the rise and fall of CHM

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    Analysis on the rise and fall of CHM

    Originally posted by Webmonkey View Post
    Originally posted by MacGuffin View Post

    Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    Actually those are among my favorite episodes

    You know, with some of the critics here I get the feeling you could give them a gold bar and they would say: "The color sucks".

    10/10 from me because it was easily as good as the Botswana Special.
    Yeah, and I could give you a lump of shit with The Grand Tour painted on it and you'd give it 10/10.
    +1

    Hear, hear, Webmonkey it had to be said.
    I have been lurking on these forums and silently witnessing the withering away of CHM charisma, chemistry and passion for years now. Whilst sheep like MacGuffin eat up unstructured, uninspired 'entertainment'. Well let me tell you its terrible entertainment at that. Let alone a good car show.

    Analysis on the rise and fall of CHM

    To preface:
    I love cars, the engineering and the thrill of piloting a man made machine as the epitome of mankind's dominion over nature.

    I love film and stories of any kind. Be it a well written historical account, revelatory science fiction or a simple road trip exploring human friendship. This glorious art of withholding information and revealing it in such a provocative manner as to command emotion from its audience, is nothing short of astounding to me.

    For the past seasons we were left with old rich men with nothing to prove. Who made high-production-value holiday videos cashing in on hype and superficial hallmarks. Personally I find nothing entertaining about a disinterested old man drifting about in yet another overly expensive car under a grey English sky whilst mumbling tired old metaphors.

    During their prime. Many reviews had plot. They built up and told the story of a car within the context of engineering, the consumer and its competition. At the end of a review we had received a beautifully crafted short story of the inception, purpose and fate of a machine. Presented with artistry, charisma and passion. They made dry information very exciting and palatable by romanticizing it. See James May's fantastic FORD GT40 film.

    This artistry too was evident in their challenges. For they had engaging story structure and compelling plot. They had a classic structure:
    1.Establishing shot
    2.the heroes are challenged
    3.reluctantly accept the quest
    4.hardship and low point
    5.perseverance and discovery of a "love" for their machine companion.
    6.glorious charge to victory!
    The theme throughout the series was the relationship between man and machine. Man and the emotional bond with his best friend: the automobile.

    Tragically: the Car Show. Became an Entertainment Show that depicted cars like they do houses on MTV Cribs. Depth for car enthusiasts was exchanged for shiny luxury items for the general audience to gasp at. The show no longer marveled at the machine. Instead it became pornography of inanimate objects for a materialistically obsessed and consumerist mass audience.

    Followed by an Entertainment Show that became the most cringe worthy reality show ever. Because of the very blatant self congratulatory tone CHM have taken. Its safe to say they have lost their boyish innocence, their humility and the drive to make it. Which used to power their 'ambitious but rubbish' charm of being an underdog having cheeky fun, reveling in the misery of a small budget, wary of the establishment. This dynamic is what made them.

    These guys are now replaced with accomplished and celebrated professionals going through the motions whilst on spectacular holidays with exclusive toys, showing off their lavish lifestyle. The audience living the perverted capitalist dream vicariously through Trump, Hilton and Kardashian. Shallow distraction for shallow wage slaves.

    Without an engaging story and Innocent car enthusiasm. We are left with the gorgeous Top Gear cinematography which ends up being nothing more than jumped up car advertisement.

    In conclusion. It was just a piece of media that catered part car enthusiasm and part entertainment in just the right blend to make me a very happy boy for a very long time.
    Don't take my words to personally. I wish you all good health, happiness and prosperity in the new year.

    -Harout

    #2
    You nailed it.

    I wish TGT producers read this, and try to re create the charm that made old TG so good. I'm convinced the main issue is terrible writing. While the last few seasons of old TG were nowhere as good as TG at its prime, TGT is whole new low. While the cinematography is state of the art, the script is bad, and the guys don't even attempt to insert some of their own, real interactions.

    It is obvious the guys themselves do not enjoy it, whether they are aware how bad the script is, but are forced to struggle through it cos contract says so, or they are truly bored with show. It seems Jeremy is the only one trying at least, he seems to want the show to work. I now Fast Forward parts where Hammond is in a frame. And there is almost no James, James actually looks sad and resigned (GT40 film notable exception)


    TGT reminds me of I'm A Celebrity...Get Me Out Of Here!

    Comment


      #3
      Rich men making high-production-value holiday videos. You nailed it completely. Unfortunately.

      Comment


        #4
        Bingo, spot on. TGT (and for a long time old TG) lacks soul. TGT itself is a missed opportunity to actually do a grand tour kind of thing.
        Last edited by Tzarrim; January 5th, 2017, 8:24 PM.

        Comment


          #5
          You could have started this thread whithout a quote that is little more then a flamewar....just saying.
          "It's not right, this." : Anonymous studio tech on the killing of TopGear.

          Comment


            #6
            During their prime. Many reviews had plot. They built up and told the story of a car within the context of engineering, the consumer and its competition. At the end of a review we had received a beautifully crafted short story of the inception, purpose and fate of a machine. Presented with artistry, charisma and passion. They made dry information very exciting and palatable by romanticizing it. See James May's fantastic FORD GT40 film.

            This artistry too was evident in their challenges. For they had engaging story structure and compelling plot. They had a classic structure:
            1.Establishing shot
            2.the heroes are challenged
            3.reluctantly accept the quest
            4.hardship and low point
            5.perseverance and discovery of a "love" for their machine companion.
            6.glorious charge to victory!
            The theme throughout the series was the relationship between man and machine. Man and the emotional bond with his best friend: the automobile.


            And if they were still doing this, you'd be complaining it's always the same.


            Here's a thought: if you don't enjoy something anymore, stop doing it. Goes for all of life, not just a tv show.

            Comment


              #7
              How have they fallen?
              The fact that the OP and some others on this forum don't like the new series is fine, but it does not mean they have fallen.
              They are being paid big bucks to make an enterainment show with cars in them, and it looks like they are having a blast.
              There are endless shows on Youtube reviewing every car as soon as they are available, so why should TGT focus on this?
              Again, how have they fallen? Seems to me they are doing marvellously well.
              "Clarkson! I know it's you, you insufferable oaf. I'm on the bloody Throne!" - James May
              "Spam is a high quality meat product" - James May
              "Is that bagpipes, or is it the sound of someone deflating a cat?" - Jeremy Clarkson

              Comment


                #8
                You don't get it... unless they're creating a show with a message deeper and more elaborate than Tolstoi's War and Peace, with better production value than the last Mission Impossible movie, all the while being entirely improvised by the 3 presenters, it's a piece of garbage TV which doesn't deserve your time.

                Comment


                  #9
                  It's like often: The vast majority likes she show. Only a minority dislikes it.

                  But the minority spreads their opinion louder because it's easier and more fun to complain than to praise.

                  I'm quite sure that the TGT production team -- or at least members of it -- browse the media and also check this forum.

                  And I bet they're having lots of giggles these days about some of the nonsense people write about their show.
                  “If Liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear" (George Orwell)

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by MacGuffin View Post
                    It's like often: The vast majority likes she show. Only a minority dislikes it.

                    But the minority spreads their opinion louder because it's easier and more fun to complain than to praise.

                    I'm quite sure that the TGT production team -- or at least members of it -- browse the media and also check this forum.

                    And I bet they're having lots of giggles these days about some of the nonsense people write about their show.
                    This isn't the BBC any more so they can't afford to alienate or marginalise sections of their audience, they need to accommodate as many people as possible. That includes the old fans and die hards that like a more serious car oriented show.

                    This is the big commercial world for them now, IF viewing and subscriptions decline they will soon know about it from Amazon.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by hal9000 View Post
                      This isn't the BBC any more so they can't afford to alienate or marginalise sections of their audience, they need to accommodate as many people as possible. That includes the old fans and die hards that like a more serious car oriented show.
                      Considering how much money Top Gear used to bring in from worldwide licensing fees, making something "everyone" likes was far more important to them than appealing to just UK license holders, too.


                      Originally posted by hal9000 View Post
                      This is the big commercial world for them now, IF viewing and subscriptions decline they will soon know about it from Amazon.
                      Yes Amazon will know how well-received the show is, but the audience is already much more limited than the BBC version was due to Amazon Prime Video not being available across as nearly as many countries. And yet they still paid an absolute mint to get the team. Plus Amazon is not all that concerned right now with making money - they're more concerned with spending to grow their brand and market. And "The Grand Tour" fits directly into that strategy.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Kiskaloo View Post
                        Considering how much money Top Gear used to bring in from worldwide licensing fees, making something "everyone" likes was far more important to them than appealing to just UK license holders, too.
                        That's the point, "due the unique way the BBC is run" they could have done anything with the show as long as it wasn't too controversial. They could have lost most of their national and international audience, still kept their jobs and been able to carry on doing what they wanted within reason. Evans Gear is an example, one person jumped and everyone else kept their jobs or got bumper new contracts, even though the series tanked.


                        Originally posted by Kiskaloo View Post
                        Yes Amazon will know how well-received the show is, but the audience is already much more limited than the BBC version was due to Amazon Prime Video not being available across as nearly as many countries. And yet they still paid an absolute mint to get the team. Plus Amazon is not all that concerned right now with making money - they're more concerned with spending to grow their brand and market. And "The Grand Tour" fits directly into that strategy.
                        Amazon is not like the BBC and will expect to get results somewhere for the 150m+ outlay, whether that's subscriptions, market exposure or anything else. What more recent series of CHM Top Gear managed to do was just enough to keep pretty much all sections of its viewers interested. TGT needs to do that as well without lurching too far in one direction or another, balance is the key.

                        A chunk of reviews on places like IMDB and Amazon are turning less than favorable after the initial euphoria, so it's not just here that people are letting their opinions be known. Wherever CHMW look they will see the criticism as well as the praise, and I'm sure they are smart enough to take it all in and act where they need to.
                        Last edited by hal9000; January 17th, 2017, 8:27 AM.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Oh, my impression is that TGT is doing exactly what Amazon wanted -- getting a whopping amount of attention for Amazon Prime/Video. It sure got me to pony up the dough to join for the first time, and I'll bet there are millions just like me. One million new members times $100 per year is $100 million -- while TGT is a three-year deal. So, bump that up to $300 million, with hopes that the new members will remain members for many years afterwards. And I presume my numbers here are very conservative -- they should already be well in the gravy, with nothing but profits to come over the years. And if they're smart enough to release the seasons on Blu-ray (and 4K at that), they'll just reel in more money. In the end, there hasn't been too much Amazon has done that has been stupid.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            OP here's a suggestion: Stop watching, get over it, and move on with your life. I've done this with F1 and I couldn't be happier.

                            Dwelling about the past and what the show should have been is a pointless endeavor.
                            Originally posted by MadCat360
                            You've never driven your car hard and you never will. Only a professional racing driver can drive a car hard. Everyone else sucks.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Cellos88GT View Post
                              OP here's a suggestion: Stop watching, get over it, and move on with your life. I've done this with F1 and I couldn't be happier.

                              Dwelling about the past and what the show should have been is a pointless endeavor.
                              I guess for some Top Gear/Grand Tour fans it's like supporting a football team. It's not always pretty and you might not always like it, but you can't help but feel it's your duty to watch again next week anyway...
                              Last edited by hal9000; January 19th, 2017, 8:48 PM.

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Originally posted by Cellos88GT View Post
                                OP here's a suggestion: Stop watching, get over it, and move on with your life. I've done this with F1 and I couldn't be happier.
                                Actually, if you can get your hands on the old videos, you can spend many enjoyable hours looking back on the old TG episodes, old F1 races, and so on. I have no idea if EVERY F1 race from the past couple of decades or more can be found on YouTube, but an ENORMOUS number of them are. I have certainly enjoyed digging up some of the old races, and watching them in their entirety. I wouldn't disagree with anyone that the old F1 races were far more enjoyable than the recent seasons....

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by mpicco View Post
                                  You don't get it... unless they're creating a show with a message deeper and more elaborate than Tolstoi's War and Peace, with better production value than the last Mission Impossible movie, all the while being entirely improvised by the 3 presenters, it's a piece of garbage TV which doesn't deserve your time.
                                  To me it's kinda like a Michael Bay movie. 20 years ago they would have been ground breaking, but today it's just mediocre nonsense that somehow brings in a lot of money.

                                  TopGear and now The Grand Tour remind me of those reality TV shows on Velocity, like Fast & Loud or whatever. They have good production value and are reasonably entertaining, but that's about it. Except shows like F&L feature a lot more intelligent car content, which is saying something. I still watch all this stuff because I find it entertaining, but that doesn't mean it's particularly good television. TopGear won a lot of awards, but none very recently. Most of them were from like 10 years ago or whatever. The show has definitely scarified a lot of substance for cheap laughs.

                                  But yeah, to dispel a myth, just because you're critical of something, that doesn't mean you hate it. I've criticized the show for years, but I still like it.

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by TC View Post

                                    But yeah, to dispel a myth, just because you're critical of something, that doesn't mean you hate it. I've criticized the show for years, but I still like it.
                                    Probably because there is still nothing else out there which comes even close.
                                    “If Liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear" (George Orwell)

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by thoots View Post
                                      Oh, my impression is that TGT is doing exactly what Amazon wanted -- getting a whopping amount of attention for Amazon Prime/Video. It sure got me to pony up the dough to join for the first time, and I'll bet there are millions just like me. One million new members times $100 per year is $100 million -- while TGT is a three-year deal. So, bump that up to $300 million, with hopes that the new members will remain members for many years afterwards. And I presume my numbers here are very conservative -- they should already be well in the gravy, with nothing but profits to come over the years. And if they're smart enough to release the seasons on Blu-ray (and 4K at that), they'll just reel in more money. In the end, there hasn't been too much Amazon has done that has been stupid.
                                      Don't forget that the point of Prime benefits is not to profit directly from the subscriptions, but to lure people in, in hopes that people purchase some expensive shit from the Amazon store with same-day delivery. So if one subscribes for Grand Tour, but decides to order a 40lb pack of marshmallows because "why not, I have prime already", he already is in the green for Amazon.

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by hal9000 View Post
                                        A chunk of reviews on places like IMDB and Amazon are turning less than favorable after the initial euphoria, so it's not just here that people are letting their opinions be known. Wherever CHMW look they will see the criticism as well as the praise, and I'm sure they are smart enough to take it all in and act where they need to.
                                        *sigh*

                                        I'll just go ahead and quote myself from the 1x12 thread:

                                        Originally posted by carrrnuttt View Post
                                        Speak for yourself.

                                        There are plenty of mostly free pure car reviews for your viewing pleasure on YouTube. Have fun.

                                        P.S. As of right now, TGT has a 9.1 rating out of 10 on IMDB based on an aggregate of over 30K votes, and a 95% (4.8 average stars out of 5) audience review rating on Rottentomatoes based on 884 votes.
                                        And before you start repeating the "after the initial euphoria" part of your rant, have a gander:



                                        To be fair to your point, it seems that the 9.1 rating of the first episode might have well been "euphoria" about CHM coming back, but as you can see, the third highest rated episode so far is the latest episode. So no "initial euphoria" there to support your statement. Even the lowest-rated episode still has 6.8 stars out of 10, despite people like you likely trolling with one-star ratings.

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