German police stops illegal rallye - 63 cars confiscated

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Seems like the police were only doing what was expected of them. When a high level court prohibits (in a sense declaring it illegal)an event from occurring, and the participants begin anyways, the police have the right to stop the event. If they did nothing, a bunch of millionaires would have just defeated the federal (well not sure how the courts are in Germany) government, which is never good.

 

[TC]

What I'm curious about is if one of the owners wanted their car back so they can go home. Would the police refuse to give the man his property, when he only wants it back to travel back to his home? They're holding the cars on the basis that they're going to participate in an unapproved rally, so if an owner wants his property back for a totally legal and rightful activity, would the police still refuse?

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

What I'm curious about is if one of the owners wanted their car back so they can go home. Would the police refuse to give the man his property, when he only wants it back to travel back to his home? They're holding the cars on the basis that they're going to participate in an unapproved rally, so if an owner wants his property back for a totally legal and rightful activity, would the police still refuse?

Technically yes. It was the owners fault for showing up to a rally that been made ILLEGAL, thereby breaking the law. I think the owners should be able to get their cars back, but not immediately.

 

[hansvonaxion]

You're confusing a rally with a race. A rally is just driving from point A to point B during an organized event. You're expected to obey all traffic laws during a Rally, such as this.

Taken from the website frontpage;

"Rushh is a high class car race..."

Its being promoted as a race, there is prizemoney, other similar events (and possibly this one last year) have resulted in illegal activity and even death.

It sucks for the drivers who got their cars locked up overnight but I would guess that they knew the rally was not approved and showed up anyway.

 

[TC]

Taken from the website frontpage;

"Rushh is a high class car race..."

Its being promoted as a race, there is prizemoney, other similar events (and possibly this one last year) have resulted in illegal activity and even death.

It sucks for the drivers who got their cars locked up overnight but I would guess that they knew the rally was not approved and showed up anyway.

But again:

1. RUSHH Drive is an orderly registered event and not an illegal car race. It?s forbidden to make any
bets regarding the RUSHH Drive. The participants have to respect the laws and restricted speed of
every federal state on the route.

A rally is a race, but you're not allowed to break traffic laws. There was a TV Show here in America (a very crappy TV Show) called The Bull Run. It was a rally, that was turned into a game show, where contestants "race" from check point to check point over a couple weeks. Contestants who get there first stay in the game, while those that arrive last can get eliminated, etc etc. But it was a rally on public roads where drivers were expected to get places as fast as they can. But the point was, they weren't allowed to break any laws and they would be disqualified for even breaking the speed limit. They needed to rely on strategy, routes, and short pit stops, etc, to win the "race". And it was all legal with no contraversy about endangering the public. And no one was killed, no one even crashed or had anything worse then mechanical break downs to worry about.

That's what a rally is. It's not an excuse to break the law, drive recklessly, etc. If people do that, then the police need to do their job to squelch it. And yeah yeah yeah, "rich people don't mind paying tickets" blah blah. But they won't like getting points on their licenses, their cars impounded and towed, or having to show up for a court date where they'll be sentenced to community service. This Guilty Until Proven Innocent crap is pathetic.

 

[Quadrax]

Like so many, you make an error here. It's true that there isn't a general speed limit on the Autobahns but there are local speed limits on two thirds of them.

Like so many, i am a little confused by people like yourself who brag about the amazing speeds you can do on your wonderful autobahn. Now you say it is not the case. If the laws are not clearly defined then you can have controversy when the laws are applied discretionally.

As an example i would call it dangerous to blast past slow moving traffic at 250kph with only one hand on the steering wheel while filming your antics merely to impress some anonymous internet dwellers. I am sure you can explain how it is safe when you do it though...

you cannot blast down the left lane like a maniac

no, of course you can't... oh wait...
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ki3-bhnGR9g[/YOUTUBE]

 

[hansvonaxion]

But again:



A rally is a race, but you're not allowed to break traffic laws. There was a TV Show here in America (a very crappy TV Show) called The Bull Run. It was a rally, that was turned into a game show, where contestants "race" from check point to check point over a couple weeks. Contestants who get there first stay in the game, while those that arrive last can get eliminated, etc etc. But it was a rally on public roads where drivers were expected to get places as fast as they can. But the point was, they weren't allowed to break any laws and they would be disqualified for even breaking the speed limit. They needed to rely on strategy, routes, and short pit stops, etc, to win the "race". And it was all legal with no contraversy about endangering the public. And no one was killed, no one even crashed or had anything worse then mechanical break downs to worry about.

That's what a rally is. It's not an excuse to break the law, drive recklessly, etc. If people do that, then the police need to do their job to squelch it. And yeah yeah yeah, "rich people don't mind paying tickets" blah blah. But they won't like getting points on their licenses, their cars impounded and towed, or having to show up for a court date where they'll be sentenced to community service. This Guilty Until Proven Innocent crap is pathetic.

We could argue the technicalities of the law of a country thats foreign to both of us until the cows come home, but thats better left to the courts.

Basically its motorsport (race or rally) and needs approval. They didn't get approval but decided to go ahead anyway. They were breaking the law.

If the organisers were so keen on people obeying the law, they would have added the clause; anyone caught speeding will be disqualified and kicked out. If it were all about driving at the speed limit they could've called it a cruise.

Whether they're rich or not doesn't matter, I think they were a bunch of kids driving Civics and Integras the result would be the same.

Here are some "rallies" that are organised properly.

http://www.classicrally.com.au/classic_challenge.htm

http://www.classicadelaide.com.au/ca08/index.asp

http://www.duttonrally.com/

http://www.targa.org.au/

 

[TC]

There is a clause that says they'll be kicked off the rally for breaking traffic laws.

15. The attendant agrees with the eligibility requirements of the RUSHH DRIVE. If the attendant
breaks any of the RUSHH DRIVE rules or does not agree on the requirements or does not follow the
briefing of the organisation the attendant will be except from the above mentioned event.

The rules state you must follow traffic laws and obey restrictive speeds. This rule states if you break or choose not to follow any of the rules, you'll be "except" from the event.

Fact is, there is nothing wrong with having a rally. And it's BS that the courts are trying to ban it. I'm not arguing that it wasn't made illegal, I'm arguing that it's fucking retarded.

 

[xxxyank]

Some sweet Rides!

 

[hansvonaxion]

There is a clause that says they'll be kicked off the rally for breaking traffic laws.



The rules state you must follow traffic laws and obey restrictive speeds. This rule states if you break or choose not to follow any of the rules, you'll be "except" from the event.

Fact is, there is nothing wrong with having a rally. And it's BS that the courts are trying to ban it. I'm not arguing that it wasn't made illegal, I'm arguing that it's fucking retarded.

Fair enough. I'm not going to argue either way about whether or not the event should have been outlawed in the first place cos I don't know the details around exactly why it was prohibited.

Like I said, it sucks for the participants who got caught in the middle.

 

[MacGuffin]

Like so many, i am a little confused by people like yourself who brag about the amazing speeds you can do on your wonderful autobahn. Now you say it is not the case. If the laws are not clearly defined then you can have controversy when the laws are applied discretionally.

As an example i would call it dangerous to blast past slow moving traffic at 250kph with only one hand on the steering wheel while filming your antics merely to impress some anonymous internet dwellers. I am sure you can explain how it is safe when you do it though...

It was safe because I was in a very good, safe car with good brakes, 4-wheel drive, new tyres and tremendous chassis and suspension. I was not risking the lives of others when I did it. If anything, I only put my own neck at risk. That's why that video was done at 5:30 a.m. on a Sunday morning on a virtually empty street - as you can see. There would have been enough time and space to brake.

Let me get it straight for you: Yes, it is allowed to drive as fast as you want here, when there is no indicated speed limit. But no, it is not allowed to do it in an irresponsible way and it definitely is not allowed to misuse the Autobahn as a race track, not on a Sunday morning and certainly not on weekdays in heavy traffic, with trucks on the road (which aren't allowed here on Sundays, btw.), like the RUSSH guys intended to do. What they probably would have done, is not going fast in a reasonable way, but switching their brains off and playing Russian Roulette with cars. That is as certain as 2 + 2 equals 4, when you put rich hot shots in Porsches and Ferraris on the same road.

THAT is the difference, my friend.

But I admit it's hard to explain when people only want to see it in black and white and are unwilling to differ, just to get an upper hand in a useless discussion.

 

[TC]

It was safe because I was in a very good, safe car with good brakes, 4-wheel drive, new tyres and tremendous chassis and suspension. I was not risking the lives of others when I did it. If anything, I only put my own neck at risk. That's why that video was done at 5:30 a.m. on a Sunday morning on a virtually empty street - as you can see. There would have been enough time and space to brake.

Let me get it straight for you: Yes, it is allowed to drive as fast as you want here, when there is no indicated speed limit. But no, it is not allowed to do it in an irresponsible way and it definitely is not allowed to misuse the Autobahn as a race track, not on a Sunday morning and certainly not on weekdays in heavy traffic, with trucks on the road (which aren't allowed here on Sundays, btw.), like the RUSSH guys intended to do. What they probably would have done, is not going fast in a reasonable way, but switching their brains off and playing Russian Roulette with cars. That is as certain as 2 + 2 equals 4, when you put rich hot shots in Porsches and Ferraris on the same road.

THAT is the difference, my friend.

But I admit it's hard to explain when people only want to see it in black and white and are unwilling to differ, just to get an upper hand in a useless discussion.

You're making assumptions again. "Russian Roulette with cars"? "As certain as 2 + 2 equals 4"? I'm sorry, but it doesn't get any more black and white as that. The only person here who is unwilling to differ is yourself. But it's okay, I'm an American, I more then accustomed to apologists for their government.

Again, you're not allowed to break traffic laws during a rally. If any of them do, they're breaking the rally rules and the law. That is what the police are there for. This is no different then banning free speech and the right to assemble, because it might turn into a violent riot.

Speeding doesn't equal death. Even driving dangerously won't get someone killed. But it can lead to that under certain circumstances. That is why we have Police to pull those people over and warn them/fine them so they drive more safely. Those things are against the law because they might possibly get someone hurt. But now they're making new laws to prevent people from possibly breaking existing laws? It's a fool's errand.

 

[Viper007Bond]

TomCat is arguing my opinion too well for me to have anything additional to say, heh.

+rep

 

[Quadrax]

Worst excuse i have ever read. 3/10 for hilarity.

Honestly your driving doesn't bother me, but your hypocrisy is ridiculous.

 

[Homer_Bart]

Hmm. What is going to happen to all those cars?

 

[MacGuffin]

You're making assumptions again. "Russian Roulette with cars"? "As certain as 2 + 2 equals 4"? I'm sorry, but it doesn't get any more black and white as that.

Obviously you have no experience on German Autobahns. You don't seem to know what I'm talking about.

That is what the police are there for.

Excuse me? The police has better things to do, then playing chaperone for some wannabe Michael Schumachers. You cannot control 70 or more cars in a rallye. What do you plan to do? Give them a police escort? Install road blocks avery 10 km? Get reasonable.

Speeding doesn't equal death. Even driving dangerously won't get someone killed. But it can lead to that under certain circumstances

No comment on that...

That is why we have Police to pull those people over and warn them/fine them so they drive more safely.

Yes and while they're at it, make them form a circle, hold each other's hands and sing "We shall overcome".

Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
Worst excuse i have ever read. 3/10 for hilarity.

Honestly your driving doesn't bother me, but your hypocrisy is ridiculous.

Who are you quoting? I never said that. And if you don't have to say anything else than that, I won't even bother to reply to you anymore. Have you read my post at all?

 

[TC]

Obviously you have no experience on German Autobahns. You don't seem to know what I'm talking about. You obviously have never seen a BMW chase a Porsche on the left lane with estimated 240 km/h in heavy traffic.

Right, because only on the German Autobahns can an idiot driver go ridiculous speeds in heavy traffic. Sure. Whatever you say.

Excuse me? The police has better things to do, then playing chaperone for some wannabe Michael Schumachers. You cannot control 70 or more cars in a rallye. What do you plan to do? Give them a police escort? Install road blocks avery 10 km? Get reasonable.

I think the police have better things to do as well, but there are highway patrol to enforce traffic laws, just like there are other officers to enforce other laws. As long as you have people who break the law, you'll need officers to enforce the law. Organized rallies have predetermined routes, the police can bulk up on those routes during the rally, just like police bulk up during political events, concerts, holidays when people do a lot of drinking, etc.

Yes and while they're at it, make them form a circle, hold each other's hands and sing "We shall overcome".

So you don't support upholding the law? Yet you support the police locking up these vehicles, just in case the owners drive too fast? You're whole argument is crumbling.

You know all those drivers were looking forward to this rally, don't you? And why don't you take a while stab in the dark and guess what those drivers all did when they got their cars back. Hmm?

They probably said "**** the police" and all went for a nice little cruise on your German Autobahns. Only this time, it wasn't organized, and they don't have to worry about breaking the rally rules and the contracts they signed. And the police will be slacking off, because they think they won the battle and saved the day.

 

[MacGuffin]

Right, because only on the German Autobahns can an idiot driver go ridiculous speeds in heavy traffic. Sure. Whatever you say.

As I said: You don't know what I'm talking about. My mistake, though, should have known that.

So you don't support upholding the law? Yet you support the police locking up these vehicles, just in case the owners drive too fast? You're whole argument is crumbling.

Sometimes laws collide and a decision has to be made. The police had to ask themselves what probably would have the more severe consequences:

a) Letting them do their rallye, knowing that they very likely could not resist the temptation to race each other, with potentially disastrous results, putting personal freedom of movement above supposedly life-threatening behaviour on the roads

or

b) Don't let them to their rallye, lock the cars away for two days as a preventive measure and let them take a bus to the final party, no matter how much they complain and bawl about the bad, bad police that took their toys away.

Well, I'd still go for a)

 

[un-dee]

This is getting stupid.

There is a difference between just driving fast or breaking a speed limit and driving like a total moron. I have seen a lot of Porsches and Ferraris snaking along the lanes in heavy traffic, floored, and thats exactly what those events normally lead to. Again, the police could never confiscate your car because you are about to do some speeding with it, but they can confiscate if you otherwise take part in an ORGANIZED illegal event.

Apart from that, according to the news media here the organisers already expected it would be declared illegal and enjoyed their newly earned fame.

 

[hansvonaxion]

This is getting stupid.

Apart from that, according to the news media here the organisers already expected it would be declared illegal and enjoyed their newly earned fame.

True

I thought as much.

The event ran last year, do you know how it went?