lightening your car - anybody ever tried this?

Stock seats are incredibly heavy. The power buckets in my E46 are close to 60lbs each. Removing the sunroof glass/components for a filler panel can pull 30lbs out of the top of the car (where losing weight will have the biggest impact my lowering the polar moment of intertia). I'm betting those wheels you have are quite heavy too. Lowering your unsprung weight by replacing them with something like SSR Comps or Kosei K1s (both relatively inexpensive too) will have a noticeable difference.
 
Lightening a road car like that is a bit silly imo. If it's not also used on the track, that is.

Like, why would you take out the back seat in a BMW? It's a 4-door car. Is it so you can see the look on people's faces when they try and get in? :)
 
Btw here is a website that has the weight of all the rims in all the sizes.
http://www.wheelweights.net/
stumbled over that, too, but thanks anyway! :D

Stock seats are incredibly heavy. The power buckets in my E46 are close to 60lbs each.
That's something I'm currently looking into as well. The old seats are pretty worn anyway, and they never were very good to begin with. Unfortunately, the T?V usually doesn't allow bucket seats, so sports seats with an adjustable back rest seem to be the way to go.

Removing the sunroof glass/components for a filler panel can pull 30lbs out of the top of the car (where losing weight will have the biggest impact my lowering the polar moment of intertia).
Had that idea as well, but I'm not sure if such things even are available here.

I'm betting those wheels you have are quite heavy too. Lowering your unsprung weight by replacing them with something like SSR Comps or Kosei K1s (both relatively inexpensive too) will have a noticeable difference.
I'm afraid that none of those wheels are available here either, but like I said before, I'm looking into getting one of the lightest rims available together with one of the lightest tires available.

OZ Ultraleggera 17x7 with Pirelli P Zero Nero 205/45R17 wheels (the picture shows another make and 205/40R17):

OZ_ultraL.jpg


Lightening a road car like that is a bit silly imo. If it's not also used on the track, that is.

Like, why would you take out the back seat in a BMW? It's a 4-door car. Is it so you can see the look on people's faces when they try and get in? :)
I would do that because I have had this car for almost three years now, and I've had passengers on the backseats for maybe three times. So let me rephrase: why would I drive quite a bit of weight that only has disadvantages around for 365 days a year when I don't need it on 364 days?
 
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wow, I only just discovered this thread...

I?ve torn lots of stuff out of my car, but I?ve also kept quite a few things, because it is both daily driver and track car. I?m not big on subwoofers and the likes, but I have kept my stereo as well as the A/C, because these things are really nice to have when you?re stuck in traffic at 35? on the way to the ring... :D I think I should have lost somewhere between 80 and 90 kg by now, and there is still quite a bit of room for improvement...

Making cars lighter is great, simply because it improves performance in every possible way. And the only form of tuning where you don?t have to wonder (or answer questions about) whether or not you?ve actually managed to improve anything, because you can?t possibly make anything worse...

As you?ve noticed, the T?V doesn?t really like CF or GRP parts... There are some that are legal because they?ve undergone crash tests, but these tend to be so ridiculously expensive that there isn?t much point. Plastic windows are actually not so much of a problem, they just need to have the "E" stamp on them to be road legal. But again, quite expensive in relation to the amount of weight loss, and they also scratch really easily and will usually look like crap after a short time period...

As far as wheels go, you may want to look at the "ATS DTC superlight", as nothing else comes even close concerning value for money. There is no other 17" rim with T?V approval that will combine lightness (I think it?s like 7kg for the 7.5x17) with cheapness this well... this is the one:
ats_dtc_superlight.gif

The T?V-Gutachten usually allows you a lot of freedom concerning tire dimensions as well, so getting the approval shouldn?t cost much more than about 20? or so.

Bucket seats are also not a problem at all, especially not since you already got rid of the rear seats. And if you can?t find any that are specifically T?V approved for your car, you?ll usually get them approved for less than 100?. As far as seats concerned I?d be very picky though, because a crappy seat will really ruin the fun on long drives...

The original brakes are pretty small to start with, and braking already improves with lower weight. I think a better (and usually larger) brake would not be lighter, would it?
you?d be surprised... the "floating" caliper set up required by single piston brakes is usually quite heavy, and the really nice (ie expensive) big brake kits are usually quite a bit lighter while offering massive amounts of stopping power...

you seem to be quite serious about this, so you should really be asking these questions here: http://www.touristenfahrerforum.de/forum/
these guys have loads of experience in making cars lighter, especially when it comes to keeping the whole thing road legal...

I don't know about the Evo RS but WRC cars have electric windows so he may have a point about them being lighter.
not necessarily, the weight differences will tend to be quite small... the much bigger problem is that the roll cage gets in the way of the little crank that moves the windows, and in racecars you?ll usually be so strapped into your seat that you wouldn?t reach them anyway...
 
Just carry some air-filled (or helium for some active lightening :D) pillows around in your trunk so that people don't rip their pants on your bare metal back seats.
 
As far as wheels go, you may want to look at the "ATS DTC superlight", as nothing else comes even close concerning value for money. There is no other 17" rim with T?V approval that will combine lightness (I think it?s like 7kg for the 7.5x17) with cheapness this well... this is the one:
ats_dtc_superlight.gif
I give you the cheapness, but the Ultraleggera is just as light and looks sooooooooooo much better! ;)
Bucket seats are also not a problem at all, especially not since you already got rid of the rear seats. And if you can?t find any that are specifically T?V approved for your car, you?ll usually get them approved for less than 100?. As far as seats concerned I?d be very picky though, because a crappy seat will really ruin the fun on long drives...
Well, I'm not sure if I'll lose the back seats forever, so I don't have all options. I just read about bucket seats that one-pice-seats are forbidden by German law, but allowed by European law, so in the end, it depends on the T?V inspector whether you are to keep or loose them. And I surely don't want to get the cheapest seats available, they primarily just should be light. Any tips?

you?d be surprised... the "floating" caliper set up required by single piston brakes is usually quite heavy, and the really nice (ie expensive) big brake kits are usually quite a bit lighter while offering massive amounts of stopping power...
I remember reading about Brembo GT Junior brake kits for all kinds of cars, but I couldn't find any of those for BMW cars. And they surely were in the lower triple digits before, where I now was confronted with healthy four digit prices - bad! :cry:

I had a look at this parts site that was recommended earlier by the way, and added the (front) brakes up to 10 kgs per side. I don't know, is that a lot?

you seem to be quite serious about this, so you should really be asking these questions here: http://www.touristenfahrerforum.de/forum/
these guys have loads of experience in making cars lighter, especially when it comes to keeping the whole thing road legal...
I'll surely register there and have a talk with those guys. Thanks for the tip!
 
I give you the cheapness, but the Ultraleggera is just as light and looks sooooooooooo much better! ;)

well, that?s ultimately down to taste :D I quite like them both... there?s also the Team Dynamics range when it comes to relatively cheap lightweight (and good looking) rims, but I know two people who have had cracks in these rims, and I read somewhere on the touri-forum that there was also someone who had a set of cracked Superleggeras... this is all after extensive use on the ring though...

but the DTC is easily the most common wheel in the VLN and a very large number of other racing series in germany, and there is a good reason for this...

Well, I'm not sure if I'll lose the back seats forever, so I don't have all options. I just read about bucket seats that one-pice-seats are forbidden by German law, but allowed by European law, so in the end, it depends on the T?V inspector whether you are to keep or loose them. And I surely don't want to get the cheapest seats available, they primarily just should be light. Any tips?
I don?t know where you read that, but it?s not true... I have one-piece seats in my car and they are 100% bulletproofly legal. The problem at the ring is that the cops there won?t just know the rules very well, they will usually have very smart people from the T?V with them when they decide to take your car apart...

I also just noticed that your car has 4 doors, so the back seat thing isn?t even an issue...

As far as recommendations go, I have the Recaro Pole Position, which isn?t exactly cheap (around 450 per seat if you play your cards right), but it?s very very good, and definitely the best investment I ever made on my car. It holds you really well in the corners, fits me (thin, short) just as well as a good friend of mine (tall italian who really likes his food), and is very comfortable as long as you?re not in the passenger seat trying to take a nap...

I remember reading about Brembo GT Junior brake kits for all kinds of cars, but I couldn't find any of those for BMW cars. And they surely were in the lower triple digits before, where I now was confronted with healthy four digit prices - bad! :cry:
yeah, the good kits are quite expensive, and if you?re not on the track regularly they?re definitely overkill... if you still want to improve brake performance there are much cheaper ways to go about it, in the case of BMW prices, better parts are often actually cheaper than the original stuff...
 
I don?t know where you read that, but it?s not true... I have one-piece seats in my car and they are 100% bulletproofly legal. The problem at the ring is that the cops there won?t just know the rules very well, they will usually have very smart people from the T?V with them when they decide to take your car apart...

I also just noticed that your car has 4 doors, so the back seat thing isn?t even an issue...

As far as recommendations go, I have the Recaro Pole Position, which isn?t exactly cheap (around 450 per seat if you play your cards right), but it?s very very good, and definitely the best investment I ever made on my car. It holds you really well in the corners, fits me (thin, short) just as well as a good friend of mine (tall italian who really likes his food), and is very comfortable as long as you?re not in the passenger seat trying to take a nap...
Looks great! The have an ABE (allgemeine Betriebserlaubnis = general operating license), so the T?V shouln't be a problem. I guess that the makers of the cheaper bucket seat models just don't have theirs tested by the T?V to keep the costs down.

yeah, the good kits are quite expensive, and if you?re not on the track regularly they?re definitely overkill... if you still want to improve brake performance there are much cheaper ways to go about it, in the case of BMW prices, better parts are often actually cheaper than the original stuff...
so what would you recommend? I know there is a T?V-able way to swap the 286 mm discs I have now for the bigger 300 mm vented discs from BMW, but that being original parts, I hardly think they would be any lighter.
 
Looks great! The have an ABE (allgemeine Betriebserlaubnis = general operating license), so the T?V shouln't be a problem. I guess that the makers of the cheaper bucket seat models just don't have theirs tested by the T?V to keep the costs down.
yeah, they definitely have an ABE for the E46... I?m not sure about the E36, but even if its not included, you can still get them into your car legally. I installed mine before they brought out the ABE for the Mini, and I went to the regular T?V (and no, I didn?t sleep with any of them :) ) The key point is that they have to be legal in Germany for any comparable car, and since the seats are connected in the same way as the E46, it wouldn?t have been a problem...

so what would you recommend? I know there is a T?V-able way to swap the 286 mm discs I have now for the bigger 300 mm vented discs from BMW, but that being original parts, I hardly think they would be any lighter.
hard to say, I changed my discs, pads, brake lines, and fluid (all T?V legal, and same size as original), and got a surprisingly good result, on and off the track... what works best on your particular car is hard to say, but this is one of the things where you?ll find loads of information on the touri-forum, because there are lots of people who have the same car as you and have prepped it for track use...
 
Not quite the same lines but I was thinking alot about weight saving when I was building my jeep. First thing to go was the heavy ass straight 6, it was swapped for a chevy smallblock V-8 almost the same weight (around 500 lbs.) The roll cage is Chromoly. Pricey but I dont want to become part of the pavement because of cheap cage material. Interior was gutted. Sprayed Rhino Lining for sound deadener and heat sheilding. (plus you can hose it down to clean it:D) Stock Buckets (50lbs. each) replaced with cheap "racing" Buckets and 5 point harnesses(30lbs I think) Frame has dimple died holes to remove some material while keeping the integrity of the steel. I dont know if i actually saved any weight after adding so much with other parts, Bumpers, bigger axles, tires. but it weighs almost the same and is noticibly quicker than it was before. definatly fast enough to be scary at speed :lol: I found a place that sells Fiberglass front ends but I think if I lightened the front end it might do wheelies :shock:
 
Things I managed to loose:

Two seats, stereo, speakers, one headlight, one tail light, spare tire, jack, roof, windows, doors, seatbelts, windscreen wipers, two brakes, steering wheel, hand brake, and one ex girlfriend.

New total weight: about 600 pounds not including me.
 
aside from the jeep i currently own, i've reduced the weight in all of my cars. yes, it does make a noticeable and measurable difference. not only in terms of performance, but also with fuel efficiency.
 
About fuel consumption:

I'm still waiting for the figures to stabilize. So far, it looks like the fuel consumption has dropped from 8.8 to 8.3 l/100km. That equals a jump from 26.7 to 28.3 mpg (based on US gal).
 
...or the power ranger costume...

:blink:

Actually, I wear very classic looking gear (except for my full-face helmet) :p
This is my jacket and I wear a white RF-1000 lid, Draggin jeans (sometimes black leather overpants if it's cold) and Tourmaster riding boots.

4pxxs1.jpg


So yeah, not a power ranger.
 
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0.5l? that?s quite good... have you managed to come up with a rough estimate of how much weight you got rid of?
 
0.5l? that?s quite good... have you managed to come up with a rough estimate of how much weight you got rid of?
I think I easily passed the 50 kg mark by now. The spare wheel alone was about 16 kgs, the rear seats are said to be 12 kgs, the subwoofer I threw out must at least have been 20 kgs. And then there are loads of small things. I'll have them weighed when I'm about done with taking things out I guess.

On another note, my engine being quite low on displacement and optimised for higher revs, it has always been a bit whiny about weight. So I think taking the same amount off a car with another kind of engine will not have the same impact.
 
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Sorry guys that I didn't post any news here for such a long time. In the last weeks, I had to work quite a lot due to a colleague who got sick for quite some time, so I didn't really have the time to take this any further. I'm still working on the car though, and the plans of giving you some pictures and figures of saved weight still stand. Stay tuned...
 
Do what you will, but remember: after you are done, you need:

nos.jpg



NOS!
2 of the big bottles!!!
 
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