Crash Biker
Member
Been reading finalgear for ages (and a fan of TG for decades) so I thought I'd finally de-lurk and try and contribute to the community here, I do hope this doesn't come over and either patronising or stating the obvious.
Having just read the spectacular thread regarding Mr Clarkson's love (or otherwise) for the US (and really well done to Griswold for a spectacular response). I found myself laughing along to the whole thread, specifically not laughing at any of the respondents at all but enjoying the sheer life and enthusiasm that Griswold had let free on the topic. It did occur to me that a number of the replies referred to the British tendency to "take the piss" and I thought that was true, but sort of missed the core of the issue.
My thesis is that, more than any other society I have encountered, the "sense of humour" and its operation is more critical to the British identity than is frequently understood.
I'm now going way beyond my ability to claim any credentials, but to illustrate, here goes:
At the base level, anyone, anywhere may simply tell a joke. I make no special claim here on Britain's ability to write or tell jokes but I do have the suspicion that the English language here is a great asset due to being composed of many adopted parts of other languages (Latin/Greek, Germanic/Scandinavian tribes influence, French + colonial borrowings etc). When looking for the the right pun, meter or rhythm for a joke there are so many options I suspect English itself makes it easier but, on the whole, world standard.
What I'm not so sure is so standard is the poker face style of humour. The deliberate attempt to hide a joke in a straight statement that the recipient only spots at second consideration. It could be wild exaggeration, or a statement deliberately false at face value, something outrageous or any one of a number of similar techniques. The double pleasure in this for the recipient is switch from the overt meaning to the hidden, on top of any humour explicit in the comment itself. Call this double points.
If the statement is also partially or wholly insulting at face value, this can heighten the emotional switch from affronted to amused even further, now we're at treble (or triple) points.
The component to the British sense of humour I would propose may be unusual/unique is that any two individuals can switch into this sort of banter, without warning, without smilies or winks, and the other person is expected to catch on. In some ways this is similar to trolling, except I would say the troll is typically just looking to cause a fuss, whereas the humourist is actually offering an opening to banter and it is a test of the recipient if and whether they catch on or not (and how quickly). In a "mates at the pub" environment with a group of more than 2 all the rest will quickly catch on and now there is an audience who will keep score, laugh and cheer as though they were watching a tennis rally at Wimbledon.
Once the rally has started it is no longer about jokes but about wit and quickness and is usually enjoyed by all. The rally ends if one party cannot find an equivalently clever comeback (even better if hidden in a no-smiley statement) or if one player accidentally goes for funny+double take+insult treble points but misses the funny, because then it's just insulting and that's not cricket.
The poker face side of this game also frequently starts as self deprecating humour. Poking fun at yourself can say "this is funny and I am sufficiently self confident that I don't mind giving you a laugh at my expense" or it could be "this is funny and this is a test of your judgement to realise this is not true". When Jeremy claims to know nothing about clutches or internets it might be the second case here. Occasionally I see on this board "Jeremy has admitted he knows nothing about xxxx", this should be a red flag for a reconsideration of statement as just being funny if the subject is car related and the man talking (Jeremy) is known to be funny/witty and has been an successful automotive journalist for over 15 years. (Or if it is internets maybe it is true and he genuinely has no idea, pay attention, the verbal game has started!)
This game can be played at many levels depending on the social circumstances, a mild opening with a quizzical smile as a "light" start or the full piss take with friends over beer, however this game can be played pretty much anytime with family, friends or strangers at the bus stop as long as the strokes in the rally are judged "just right" for the occasion.
I cheerfully acknowledge US individuals and comedians can improv this sort of thing as well as, or better, than UK and no doubt true of many talk show hosts (O'Brian, Letterman, Stewart, Colbert to name a few), it is the everyman at anytime, no smileys, side to the game that I think is particularly British.
A simple test may be "given everything I know about this person and their position/status, is the fact that he has insulted 300 million people (the USA) consistent to a xenophobic, nasty and anti-social character or does he just think he's being funny". Whether you think it is funny or not, if it seems reasonable he may then you can be pretty sure he wasn't being malicious. If you see other reasonable people laughing too then maybe it was funny and you (on second consideration) may laugh too. Or you may not, but at least you can judge with a "knowing" understanding you may enjoy too.
Perversely the British seem to enjoy the black humour we create around failure more than the actual achievement of success. Making your motto "Ambitious but rubbish" rather reflects that.
When competing with the Germans in 11x06, as Brit's we assume taking it seriously = we'll probably lose + no fun. Having a laugh and cheating outrageously (and obviously) = fun + funny. (Incidentally, cheating secretly and effectively would be totally unacceptable, not funny, not fair and not cricket.) The fact that team Germany were happy to play along in this episode is absolutely to their credit, makes a fun game for all not a serious competition and reinforces feelings of friendship towards the Germans. Of course we know Sabine in a GT9 could thrash any of the others in a fair fight.
Jeremy takes this piss out of any subject, nationality, government department, signpost or anything else he thinks may be funny at that point. Rules of the SIARPC lap count are to be rewritten on the spur of the moment if the result is more fun & entertainment.
I know I can only take the piss if I am reasonably sure the recipient will know I'm being funny and not needlessly cruel and insulting, I'm quite sure Jeremy does not loathe the US and all Americans so he is actually offering an affectionate nod when he takes the trouble to write a funny (and insulting) line or scene about the US or anywhere else (including piss taking ourselves).
There's part of an old joke that says something like "uniquely, the British will be more offended to be told they have no sense of humour than to be told they are bad in bed".
There, hope I used short enough sentences to be understood even by Americans.
Crash
Having just read the spectacular thread regarding Mr Clarkson's love (or otherwise) for the US (and really well done to Griswold for a spectacular response). I found myself laughing along to the whole thread, specifically not laughing at any of the respondents at all but enjoying the sheer life and enthusiasm that Griswold had let free on the topic. It did occur to me that a number of the replies referred to the British tendency to "take the piss" and I thought that was true, but sort of missed the core of the issue.
My thesis is that, more than any other society I have encountered, the "sense of humour" and its operation is more critical to the British identity than is frequently understood.
I'm now going way beyond my ability to claim any credentials, but to illustrate, here goes:
At the base level, anyone, anywhere may simply tell a joke. I make no special claim here on Britain's ability to write or tell jokes but I do have the suspicion that the English language here is a great asset due to being composed of many adopted parts of other languages (Latin/Greek, Germanic/Scandinavian tribes influence, French + colonial borrowings etc). When looking for the the right pun, meter or rhythm for a joke there are so many options I suspect English itself makes it easier but, on the whole, world standard.
What I'm not so sure is so standard is the poker face style of humour. The deliberate attempt to hide a joke in a straight statement that the recipient only spots at second consideration. It could be wild exaggeration, or a statement deliberately false at face value, something outrageous or any one of a number of similar techniques. The double pleasure in this for the recipient is switch from the overt meaning to the hidden, on top of any humour explicit in the comment itself. Call this double points.
If the statement is also partially or wholly insulting at face value, this can heighten the emotional switch from affronted to amused even further, now we're at treble (or triple) points.
The component to the British sense of humour I would propose may be unusual/unique is that any two individuals can switch into this sort of banter, without warning, without smilies or winks, and the other person is expected to catch on. In some ways this is similar to trolling, except I would say the troll is typically just looking to cause a fuss, whereas the humourist is actually offering an opening to banter and it is a test of the recipient if and whether they catch on or not (and how quickly). In a "mates at the pub" environment with a group of more than 2 all the rest will quickly catch on and now there is an audience who will keep score, laugh and cheer as though they were watching a tennis rally at Wimbledon.
Once the rally has started it is no longer about jokes but about wit and quickness and is usually enjoyed by all. The rally ends if one party cannot find an equivalently clever comeback (even better if hidden in a no-smiley statement) or if one player accidentally goes for funny+double take+insult treble points but misses the funny, because then it's just insulting and that's not cricket.
The poker face side of this game also frequently starts as self deprecating humour. Poking fun at yourself can say "this is funny and I am sufficiently self confident that I don't mind giving you a laugh at my expense" or it could be "this is funny and this is a test of your judgement to realise this is not true". When Jeremy claims to know nothing about clutches or internets it might be the second case here. Occasionally I see on this board "Jeremy has admitted he knows nothing about xxxx", this should be a red flag for a reconsideration of statement as just being funny if the subject is car related and the man talking (Jeremy) is known to be funny/witty and has been an successful automotive journalist for over 15 years. (Or if it is internets maybe it is true and he genuinely has no idea, pay attention, the verbal game has started!)
This game can be played at many levels depending on the social circumstances, a mild opening with a quizzical smile as a "light" start or the full piss take with friends over beer, however this game can be played pretty much anytime with family, friends or strangers at the bus stop as long as the strokes in the rally are judged "just right" for the occasion.
I cheerfully acknowledge US individuals and comedians can improv this sort of thing as well as, or better, than UK and no doubt true of many talk show hosts (O'Brian, Letterman, Stewart, Colbert to name a few), it is the everyman at anytime, no smileys, side to the game that I think is particularly British.
A simple test may be "given everything I know about this person and their position/status, is the fact that he has insulted 300 million people (the USA) consistent to a xenophobic, nasty and anti-social character or does he just think he's being funny". Whether you think it is funny or not, if it seems reasonable he may then you can be pretty sure he wasn't being malicious. If you see other reasonable people laughing too then maybe it was funny and you (on second consideration) may laugh too. Or you may not, but at least you can judge with a "knowing" understanding you may enjoy too.
Perversely the British seem to enjoy the black humour we create around failure more than the actual achievement of success. Making your motto "Ambitious but rubbish" rather reflects that.
When competing with the Germans in 11x06, as Brit's we assume taking it seriously = we'll probably lose + no fun. Having a laugh and cheating outrageously (and obviously) = fun + funny. (Incidentally, cheating secretly and effectively would be totally unacceptable, not funny, not fair and not cricket.) The fact that team Germany were happy to play along in this episode is absolutely to their credit, makes a fun game for all not a serious competition and reinforces feelings of friendship towards the Germans. Of course we know Sabine in a GT9 could thrash any of the others in a fair fight.
Jeremy takes this piss out of any subject, nationality, government department, signpost or anything else he thinks may be funny at that point. Rules of the SIARPC lap count are to be rewritten on the spur of the moment if the result is more fun & entertainment.
I know I can only take the piss if I am reasonably sure the recipient will know I'm being funny and not needlessly cruel and insulting, I'm quite sure Jeremy does not loathe the US and all Americans so he is actually offering an affectionate nod when he takes the trouble to write a funny (and insulting) line or scene about the US or anywhere else (including piss taking ourselves).
There's part of an old joke that says something like "uniquely, the British will be more offended to be told they have no sense of humour than to be told they are bad in bed".
There, hope I used short enough sentences to be understood even by Americans.
Crash
for the best and most well thought out first post I have ever seen on finalgear.com.
