What if?.. (American isolation thread)

[Jay]

This is all hypothetical and far reaching of course, but something to dwell on.

What if...what if....

-America adopted a policy of isolationism?
-America finished up the conflict in Iraq, and left it up to the UN?
-America closed all of it's international bases and strategic sites in Europe and Japan?

Would that make the people of the world happy?

How about these "what if's".

-Russia secretly built up a gigantic army, and started gaining back territory it lost after the Cold War ended.
-America shrugged it's shoulders and said "not our problem"?
-Russia was so wildly successful, they take all of Western Europe, and make the claimed countries in Russian states?
-America said "hey, we'll still buy imports from you, but we will remain neutral"?

 

[Firecat]

I think Jefferson said it best...

"Peace, commerce and honest friendship with all nations; entangling alliances with none."

 

[SuperStalin]

do want.

 

[Jay]

I think Jefferson said it best...

And I agree with that, since I am a Jeffersonian, Constitutionalist, Libertarian...whatever the name is these days.

Do not take me wrong, I am not ashamed of my country; I just think we need to clean up some messes, ask others if they still want help, and go from there.

 

[SuperStalin]

USA is in it for the money, not for helping those in need. It will get out of the "messes" when they stop making money.

 

[alexmanners]

What if...what if....

-America adopted a policy of isolationism?
-America finished up the conflict in Iraq, and left it up to the UN?
-America closed all of it's international bases and strategic sites in Europe and Japan?

Would that make the people of the world happy?

Thank you for bringing up a huge problem with the foreign perception of the "White American Devil." Most foreign countries just don't realize how important the US really is on a global scale. Despite being seen as imperialist cows and sullying our reputation we do things because they need to be done. I actually think the US SHOULD adopt a policy of Isolationism, but then people are going to hate the US for just "Standing by" and letting things happen. Whatever path we take, it's not going to matter because people are going to hate us regardless; either for overstepping our boundaries, or not doing what other people want us to do.

 

[Steve Levin]

I'm proud that America doesn't stand by and do nothing. History has shown that doing nothing, or trading pieces of paper is worthless. ("Peace in our time" ???)

Doing the right thing is often unpopular. But it needs to be done.

Besides, isolationism never works. In the end the inevitable bailout is massively expensive in lives and money.

Steve

 

[Top Geek]

-America adopted a policy of isolationism?
-America finished up the conflict in Iraq, and left it up to the UN?
-America closed all of it's international bases and strategic sites in Europe and Japan?

Are you writing a comedy routine or something?

 

[h-p]

What if...what if....

-America adopted a policy of isolationism?
-America finished up the conflict in Iraq, and left it up to the UN?
-America closed all of it's international bases and strategic sites in Europe and Japan?

Would that make the people of the world happy?

Doesn't make me any happier than I am, beucause none of those things affect my life. Expect maybe through oil prices.

But it could make euro more important currency in world trade, which could help european companies.

How about these "what if's".

-Russia secretly built up a gigantic army, and started gaining back territory it lost after the Cold War ended.
-America shrugged it's shoulders and said "not our problem"?
-Russia was so wildly successful, they take all of Western Europe, and make the claimed countries in Russian states?
-America said "hey, we'll still buy imports from you, but we will remain neutral"?

Not going to happen, because there is still 24 NATO countries in Europe. Two of them have nuclear weapons. UK, France, Italy lol, Spain and Germany are very formidable military powers.

So go ahead.

 

[anti-net]

This is all hypothetical and far reaching of course, but something to dwell on.

What if...what if....

-America adopted a policy of isolationism?
-America finished up the conflict in Iraq, and left it up to the UN?
-America closed all of it's international bases and strategic sites in Europe and Japan?

Would that make the people of the world happy?

How about these "what if's".

-Russia secretly built up a gigantic army, and started gaining back territory it lost after the Cold War ended.
-America shrugged it's shoulders and said "not our problem"?
-Russia was so wildly successful, they take all of Western Europe, and make the claimed countries in Russian states?
-America said "hey, we'll still buy imports from you, but we will remain neutral"?

First off, the US can't leave Iraq and ave it to the UN becuase the UN has required them to be there. It our (USAUK) problem, despite the weapon inspectors been right our lovely governments thought invading would be fun so we have to deal with it.

What would stop Russia from invading the US?

Couldn't Europe just use its large European army to kill the Russians?

 

[phuckingduck]

The UN requires us to be there?

I would love to see the UN try to stop us from leaving.

 

[Jay]

Not going to happen, because there is still 24 NATO countries in Europe. Two of them have nuclear weapons. UK, France, Italy lol, Spain and Germany are very formidable military powers.

So go ahead.

-A relatively small country in Europe was the reason for two world wars. 100 years before that, Germany was a crazed patchwork of little nations.

-At one time, Portugal ruled the sea.

-"The sun never sets on the British empire"...

-Little Japan ruled over China and most of the Pacific Rim in World War II.

-Americas army in 1940 had 280,000 soldiers...that increased to 5.4 million in 1945.

 

[h-p]

-A relatively small country in Europe was the reason for two world wars. 100 years before that, Germany was a crazed patchwork of little nations.

-At one time, Portugal ruled the sea.

-"The sun never sets on the British empire"...

-Little Japan ruled over China and most of the Pacific Rim in World War II.

-Americas army in 1940 had 280,000 soldiers...that increased to 5.4 million in 1945.

I don't get the point.
I don't see any threat to Europe that we couldn't stop ourselves but the americans could.

btw. 12.5 million germans served in the military in WW2, 2 million more than americans in US Army

 

[Jay]

I don't get the point.
I don't see any threat to Europe that we couldn't stop ourselves but the americans could.

The point is, do not underestimate the will of a nation or a nations leader to conquer or to wage war on others.

 

[watto]

Jay, interesting, very interesting...

I think it's a bit of double edged sword, this one. Sure, the US may have gone overboard in some areas, but in others, I just wonder what might happen in some situations if the US just sat back and let shit happen.

As for your Russia taking over Eastern Europe hypothetical, there's still Germany, the UK and France lol over there to take care of things...

 

[h-p]

I just wonder what might happen in some situations if the US just sat back and let shit happen.

True. Thank you americans that now i speak finnish (and little english) instead of russian.

Explanation: Allies advanced so quickly in western front on WW2 that russians got in a rush to get to Berlin first. So they needed troops to smash the germans. Quick solution: Stop banging head on Finnish border, make peace, and move troops south against Wehrmacht.

 

[SuperStalin]

What makes you think Russia would even attack Europe... for some reason? The fact USSR ruled over half of Europe was just the spoils of WW2...

Russia isn't some sort of incident waiting to happen, at least no more than USA, which meddles its greasy hands
in other countries internal problems way too often for anyone (except americans) to believe it's doing it just for the sake of christian justice (or bringing democracy, or whatever lie you choose to believe).

 

[jeffy777]

What makes you think Russia would even attack Europe... for some reason?

He's just using it as a hypothetical situation. I don't think he's saying he thinks it would really happen. Just another "What if".

 

[Suedschleife]

-America adopted a policy of isolationism?
-America finished up the conflict in Iraq, and left it up to the UN?
-America closed all of it's international bases and strategic sites in Europe and Japan?

- Too many factors for me to predict with any certainty. If i had to guess I think a severe long term impact on the US economy and severe short-mid term impact on global economy are likely. The geopolitical/geosecurity implications will be catastrophic for some.
- You broke it, you bought it.
- Logical consequence of the isolation, massive cost saving potential for the federal budget, major loss of long term power projection capabilities. Destabilization of multiple regions, forceful "reunification" of several regions very likely.

-Russia secretly built up a gigantic army, and started gaining back territory it lost after the Cold War ended.
-America shrugged it's shoulders and said "not our problem"?
-Russia was so wildly successful, they take all of Western Europe, and make the claimed countries in Russian states?
-America said "hey, we'll still buy imports from you, but we will remain neutral"?

What if if the New Sowjet Union then takes all of America?
What if China sees it's export markets dwindling and decides to be the new global liberator.

Err, sorry lost me after the 2nd "what if".

 

[Steve Levin]

What makes you think Russia would even attack Europe... for some reason? The fact USSR ruled over half of Europe was just the spoils of WW2...

Please look up:

The Russian Guide to winning friends and influencing people, 1979 edition, the "Afghanistan" chapter.

and the Russian Guide to winning friends and influencing people, 2008 reprint, Appendix G "Georgia."

there are many other examples but I think these two cover it well enough to dispute your "The Russians are kind and gentle and never looked to expand after WWII" theory.

Steve