Can someone explain to me why anyone wants to vote for McCain/Palin?

Getting back on topic

according to fivethirtyeight.com we can see how close this election will be McCain leads the popular vote with Obama having a slight lead in projected electoral votes.

I bring this up because of the snowball effect: When I look at the news today I see a slight lean to Obama but that very well could change if McCain takes a lead in the polls. When a large enough population says they are voting McCain and others hear this it very well could cause others to vote for McCain because people are dumb and don't want to vote for a loser.

I am not saying it is right but with the way Obama is playing this game he very well could look like a loser before the game is up.

I reckon part of the reason McCain's ahead in the polls - not all of it - is that he's been getting more press, due to the Republican convention coming later and due to the choice of Palin.

I wouldn't want to place any bets on the basis of polls at the moment...
 
I reckon part of the reason McCain's ahead in the polls - not all of it - is that he's been getting more press, due to the Republican convention coming later and due to the choice of Palin.

I wouldn't want to place any bets on the basis of polls at the moment...

I think a big part of it is because there were a lot of holdouts within the GOP - people who couldn't bring themselves to vote for McCain - until Palin introduced herself.
 
^Spot on.

Some speculated that a staunch conservative would alienate "independents" but he had so much more to gain going that route.

Regarding the polls. Do they take into account new voters, likely voters, or something else?
 
I cant wait until 10 or 20 years from now they look back on the polling data and see how skewed it is. I dont follow polls, either for Obama nor McCain because they arent accurate. The New Hampshire primaries for example. The pollsters totally fubared that one up. For one, there are questionable polling methods for the latest polls after the conventions, and 2nd, its unquestionable that Obama has the youth vote in his corner. However I know a lot of ppl my age and younger who dont have landlines (I do because its friggin cheap), and only use cell phones. Pollsters cant call ppl on the cell (thank god!) so theres a significant gap in the polling data since so many polls use phone calls. I just wonder how big the gap is during this election cycle.

Anyway did anyone catch the Palin interview on ABC? Man it was embarrassing. She didnt even know what the Bush Doctrine was. Charlie Gibson, a lightweight on his own had to explain it to her. If Palin fails so badly on this interview with a softy like Gibson, I cannot wait to see her during the debates, and hopefully interviewed by ppl with more balls than Gibson.
 
A few quick reasons. First of all, as a petrolhead, i think this is a scary time for car culture in general, and although i actually find alot of Liberal policies sensible, the whole green thing has gotten out of hand, letting obama in isn't as scary as letting in all the looneys who want to ban internal combustion. Also between McCain and Obama McCain is the only one who has every actually stood up to his own party, anybody who just goes along with all the idealogies of their party are in my mind way dumber then any creationist.

If i may deviate a little and stick up for my religious friends. I know many people who are hardcore christians, say for example Alice Cooper, and their all perfectly sensible, they just have personal beliefs that don't happen to interfere with anything else. Sure the idea of the world being 6,000 years old is insane in my opinion, but feel free to look up the type of stuff aforementioned Alice Cooper does for his community. Sure he might be a religious nut, but hes also a good man, and honestly i don't think you could call him "closed minded."

Back on the subject of politics. The Liberals are way too happy to lie. I mean sure Iraq was a bad lie, but so was JFKs Vietnam. Jimmy Carter is a Nuclear Physicist, Al Gore invented the internet, and All the hot Hollywood liberals (Jon Travolta atleast) love to fly around in private jets telling much poorer people how their 4x4s are killing the planet.

As i've said before, I'd rather be poor and free then wealthy and imprisoned by my own community.
 
Regarding the polls. Do they take into account new voters, likely voters, or something else?

Likely voters.

Anyway did anyone catch the Palin interview on ABC? Man it was embarrassing. She didnt even know what the Bush Doctrine was. Charlie Gibson, a lightweight on his own had to explain it to her. If Palin fails so badly on this interview with a softy like Gibson, I cannot wait to see her during the debates, and hopefully interviewed by ppl with more balls than Gibson.

Actually, Gibson didn't get it quite right either.

I don't think it was embarrassing. She didn't "um", "ah" and "y'know" her way through any answers like Barack does when the teleprompter breaks on him. She knew more about Russia, Georgia and Ukraine than I bet Gibson expected, and her response on Iran and Israel was reasonable. And she set one of the internet rumors about her straight.

I suppose you missed where Obama, on his Hawaiian vacation, flubbed up his response when Russia invaded Georgia, and it took his 300 national security/foreign policy advisors three days to get it right. Or when Obama demonstrated that he didn't have the first clue how the Joint Chiefs of Staff operates. And he's on the top of the ticket!

If you consider Gibson a "softy", who do you think should interview Palin? And who do you think should interview Obama?
 
She struggled. Gibson kept hammering away because he didn't get a "yes" or "no"....when she said they shouldn't second guess Israel, the answer is implied. I don't think any candidate is expected to give a solid answer on hypotheticals (among other things). Sure, it would be nice....but we shouldn't hold her to a different standard.

Unfortunately, she kept on repeating the same answer....so it came across badly.

She definitely seems very smart, and I think it will work against the McCain camp if they try to contain and micromanage her.
 
^Spot on.

Some speculated that a staunch conservative would alienate "independents" but he had so much more to gain going that route.

Regarding the polls. Do they take into account new voters, likely voters, or something else?

Yes, yes they do. It's a pretty even sampling, statistically speaking. In reality, a lot less even, but what can you do eh?

On a more interesting note, they do NOT take into account the chasm of misunderstanding, aka the Bradley effect.

The term Bradley effect, less commonly called the Wilder effect, refers to a frequently observed discrepancy between voter opinion polls and election outcomes in American political campaigns when a white candidate and a non-white candidate run against each other. Named for Tom Bradley, an African-American who lost the 1982 California governor's race despite being ahead in voter polls, the Bradley effect refers to a tendency on the part of white voters to tell pollsters that they are undecided or likely to vote for a Black candidate, when, on election day, they vote for his white opponent.
 
"She didn't "um", "ah" and "y'know" her way through any answers like Barack does when the teleprompter breaks on him"

Sorry, but you cannot criticize someone else for grammar when you're the lot that voted for the language mutilating Dubya. And he screws up when he has a prompter to play with! I love this teleprompter angle the right uses as a attack these days as if they do so much better without one. Like when Fred Thompson used the line against Obama during the convention, when he himself was using a prompter just like everyone else. And Palin has to thank the bush speech writer that wrote her convention speech. Without the prompter she'd be a deer in headlights. Everyone thinks McCain is so great during town halls and such, even though he makes some of his most ridiculous gaffes when he speaks in those settings. But it is fun counting how many times he'll say "My Friends.." as a preface to almost every sentence.

I've yet to see a candid interview conducted by someone who can go after her on the issues. Gibson was a start, but we as a country definitely deserve more. Say what you want about Obama, you cannot say he hasn't been throughly vetted these last couple of years. He's cut his teeth on a long ass campaign against the Clinton machine and now against the GOP. Palin has barely 2 months to do the same and it wont work. The 1st second she is stumped by a question without a rehearsed answer given by the McCain camp it exposes her weakness.

Palin can only recite the talking points the McCain camp made her memorize. Why did we have to wait this long for an interview? Because Palin had remember the usual party line when keywords like Iraq and Energy come up in an interview. I've listened to a few of her speeches after the convention, and they are almost all the same. The great line "I said thanks but no thanks to that Bridge to nowhere" when its not true. The "I even sold the last governor's plane on ebay" when in fact she didn't and it was sold to a private entity at a loss. And of course this gem..

Look, both parties will make mistakes and gaffes. They both screw up in one form or another, so I'm not going to go nuts over a slight mistake or something. But both parties make blunders. Like when McCain and Liebermann were in Jordan and during a press conference McCain claimed AQI were going back to Iran for training and resources, and Liebermann had to save his ass and McCain corrected himself saying it was "extremists, not AQI". For someone who claims so much knowledge about Iraq and his banking his hopes of being President on the fact he's the expert on foreign affairs, you'd figure he'd get some of the key figures/facts of the insurgency and terrorist groups right. And while it was a stupid thing to say, I'm not so sure he really thought AQI was friendly to Iran. It was probably just an honest mistake, tripping over words or something which happens to everyone. Of course the right would never concede to Obama making such a mistake.

But these are not in the same league as Palin's statements, like the one I linked to above. And actually Gibson pretty much nailed the Bush Doctrine. Its not whether you agree or disagree with it. Thats not what I'm referring to. Its the fact Palin had no idea what it was and tried to squirm her way out of it by dodging the question. A gotcha question is like "Who was the Prime Minister of Japan in 1954?". Thats irrelevant. However when Clinton utterly failed during the debates about issuing licenses to illegal immigrants in New York, that was a yes or no question, not a gotcha like she complained. And that was relevant to our current polices. The Bush Doctrine is one of the prime ideals of the Bush presidency and the republican base overall, and Palin couldn't answer it.

As to who I'd rather have over Gibson for interview, I just want someone who will follow up more on questions when the candidates fumble. Not in a mean spirited way like O'reilly or Olbermann. I think Chris Matthews is a very good interviewer regardless if you think he's too liberal or something. He's the last person you wanna make a dumb statement to, like that Kevin James idiot a few months ago, who called Obama an appeaser when he had no idea what appeasement meant. James made a stupid statement and Matthews jumped on it, forcing him to concede he really didnt know what appeasement meant. And Matthews has gone after dems just has hard as well. On contrast O'reilly and Olbermann always give softball interviews to politicians on their side. O'reilly is a wuss when it comes to interviewing those on the right. Thats why I never take him seriously. And while I agree with Olbermann because he''s usually correct, when it comes to interviews he doesn't really get to the bottom of it. But at least Obama has gone through the gauntlet of the media, putting up with fair and unfair questions about him and his family. Palin should do the same, but she wont because there isnt enough time and thats unfair. And I'm so sick of hearing the whiny right complain that simply asking her tough questions is sexist and unfair. What a load of bollocks. The right did the same to Obama and Co., but don't like it when it happens to one of their own.

I'm sick of politicians on both sides (Obama included, even though I'm a supporter) getting away with canned answers. I think we can both agree we want our politicians to talk to us like adults and not children for once. I wish instead of trying to answer a question they cant answer with a bullshit response, one of them would just go "I dont fuckin know.". That would be refreshing at least.
 
http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/

this is where i get my number: not only the national polls but state by state results as well as poll information from standard deviation to population size and poll weight.
 
I'm sick of politicians on both sides (Obama included, even though I'm a supporter) getting away with canned answers. I think we can both agree we want our politicians to talk to us like adults and not children for once. I wish instead of trying to answer a question they cant answer with a bullshit response, one of them would just go "I dont fuckin know.". That would be refreshing at least.

I know where your at man but thats politics because if anyone did do that people would get lost in words because the majority of the nation is dumb and a quarter is retarded the other is smart, really dumb or don't vote
 
Exactly, thats what so sad. Even though I disagree with almost everything the McCain supporters say here, and vice versa at least we're discussing it. Its a shame with a democracy like ours we seem to collectively put up with so much inane BS. Instead of talking about stuff that matters like the economy and foreign policy, 2 wars going on with no end, OBL still out there 7 years after 911 etc, the last week has been nothing but Lipstick and Pigs.

More ppl seem to care about American Idol than the American presidential election. Anyone ever see that movie Idiocracy? I dont think that future is way off really..
 
ya but the people loved and really voted for President Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho our future someone will just walk into the office and say get the fuck out I am the new President and people will say "meh"
 
It's funny how the harder you look at something, the harder it can be to understand it. I can't recall a US presidential election that has attracted more attention. But neither can there have been a time when the world has watched what goes on in America with the nonplussed, horrified incomprehension it has now.

Travelling in Britain this week, I've been asked repeatedly by close followers of US politics if it can really be true that Barack Obama might not win. Thoughtful people cannot get their head around the idea that Mr Obama, exciting new pilot of change, supported by Joseph Biden, experienced navigator of the swamplands of Washington politics, could possibly be defeated.

They look upon John McCain and Sarah Palin and see something out of hag-ridden history: the wizened old warrior, obsessed with finding enemies in every corner of the globe, marching in lockstep with the crackpot, mooseburger-chomping mother from the wilds of Alaska, rifle in one hand, Bible in the other, smiting caribou and conventional science as she goes.

Two patronising explanations are adduced to explain why Americans are going wrong. The first is racism. I've dealt with this before and it has acquired no more merit. White supremacists haven't been big on Democratic candidates, whatever their colour, for a long time, and Mr Obama's race is as likely to generate enthusiasm among blacks and young voters as it is hostility among racists.

In a similarly condescending account, those foolish saps are being conned into voting for Mr McCain because they like his running-mate. Her hockey-mom charm and storybook career appeals to their worst instincts. The race is boiling down to a beauty contest in which a former beauty queen is stealing the show. Believe this if it helps you come to terms with the possibility of a Democratic defeat. But there really are better explanations.

One is a simple political-cultural one. This election is a struggle between the followers of American exceptionalism and the supporters of global universalism. Democrats are more eager than ever to align the US with the rest of the Western world, especially Europe. This is true not just in terms of a commitment to multilateral diplomacy that would restore the United Nations to its rightful place as arbiter of international justice. It is also reflected in the type of place they'd like America to be - a country with higher taxes, more business regulation, a much larger welfare safety net and universal health insurance. The Republicans, who still believe America should follow the beat of its own drum, are pretty much against all of that.

You can argue the merits of each case. But let me try to explain to my fellow non-Americans why Mr Obama's problems go well beyond that. Even if you think that Americans should want to turn their country into a European-style system, there is a perfectly good reason that you might have grave doubts about Mr Obama.

The essential problem coming to light is a profound disconnect between the Barack Obama of the candidate's speeches, and the Barack Obama who has actually been in politics for the past decade or so.

Speechmaker Obama has built his campaign on the promise of reform, the need to change the culture of American political life, to take on the special interests that undermine government's effectiveness and erode trust in the system itself,

Politician Obama rose through a Chicago machine that is notoriously the most corrupt in the country. As David Freddoso writes in a brilliantly cogent and measured book, The Case Against Barack Obama, the angel of deliverance from the old politics functioned like an old-time Democratic pol in Illinois. He refused repeatedly to side with those lonely voices that sought to challenge the old corrupt ways of the ruling party.

Speechmaker Obama talks about an era of bipartisanship, He speaks powerfully about the destructive politics of red and blue states.

Politician Obama has toed his party's line more reliably than almost any other Democrat in US politics. He has a near-perfect record of voting with his side. He has the most solidly left-wing voting history in the Senate. His one act of bipartisanship, a transparency bill co-sponsored with a Republican senator, was backed by everybody on both sides of the aisle. He has never challenged his party's line on any issue of substance.

Speechmaker Obama talks a lot about finding ways to move beyond the bloody battlegrounds of the ?culture wars? in America; the urgent need to establish consensus on the emotive issue of abortion.

Politician Obama's support for abortion rights is the most extreme of any Democratic senator. In the Illinois legislature he refused to join Democrats and Republicans in supporting a Bill that would require doctors to provide medical care for babies who survived abortions. No one in the Senate - not the arch feminist Hillary Clinton nor the superliberal Edward Kennedy - opposed this same humane measure.

Here's the real problem with Mr Obama: the jarring gap between his promises of change and his status quo performance. There are just too many contradictions between the eloquent poetry of the man's stirring rhetoric and the dull, familiar prose of his political record.

It's been remarked that the biggest difference between Americans and Europeans is religion: ignorant Americans cling to faith; enlightened Europeans long ago embraced the liberating power of reason. Yet here's an odd thing about this election. Europeans are asking Americans to take a leap of faith, to break the chains of empiricism and embrace the possibility of the imagination.

The fact is that a vote for Mr Obama demands uncritical subservience to the irrational, anti-empirical proposition that the past holds no clues about the future, that promise is wholly detached from experience. The second-greatest story ever told, perhaps.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/gerard_baker/article4735295.ece
 
It might be my european view on things but to me it's pretty simple:
-Bush is the worst president ever, he fucked the us economy, he "brainwashed" the american people by making them believe the us is under constant threat with his stupid terror threat levels thus getting support for his patriot act (aka bye bye land of the free home of the brave and hello big brother) and ofcourse Iraq
-McCain agreed with Bush 90% of the time
-Therefor Obama is the better option

or is it just me :p
 
-Bush is the worst president ever, he fucked the us economy, he "brainwashed" the american people by making them believe the us is under constant threat with his stupid terror threat levels thus getting support for his patriot act (aka bye bye land of the free home of the brave and hello big brother) and ofcourse Iraq

The media has convinced you of this. That does not make it so.

Surveys of presidential scholars usually put Bush the Younger solidly midfield. The title of "worst president ever" is generally reserved for Warren G. Harding, who was in fact immensely popular right up until he died in office. Some would also argue that James Buchanan (possibly the first and only gay president) was the worst, owing primarily to his failure to avert the Civil War.
 
Thanks for the response cause like I said, it's probably a european point of view (which indeed is probably created by the media) but I still recon Bush made mistakes that could and should not have happend. He sure isn't the worst president ever (heck, I don't even know all of them so how can I know) but my point is that a person how supports Bush as much as McCain does, can hardly be the best option.
 
The media has convinced you of this. That does not make it so.

Surveys of presidential scholars usually put Bush the Younger solidly midfield. The title of "worst president ever" is generally reserved for Warren G. Harding, who was in fact immensely popular right up until he died in office. Some would also argue that James Buchanan (possibly the first and only gay president) was the worst, owing primarily to his failure to avert the Civil War.

Most historians cite Andrew Johnson because he fucked up Reconstruction so hilariously awfully and getting impeached as a result. It's either that or Nixon, for obvious reasons (he was also vaguely anti-Semitic as well).

I still think Bush is up there, however...owing to the 1984-esque parallels of a neverending war against a faceless enemy that gathers support among the populace from a climate of fear throughout a country that donates massive resources to the fighting. And no, I don't donate money to Moveon.org.
 
Top