Looks like the GT-R isn't so great after all...

Cellos88GT said:
One thing I'd like to add:

Thank god Ferrari still offers manual transmissions with their cars so you have the ability to avoid this kind of bullshit.
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Porsche, too, my friend ;)
 
It is really interesting how as soon as the GTR or Porsche get mentioned threads get all flamy, if it happened to an Evo, STi or M3 the flaming would be at a much lower level.......
 
D-Fence said:
It is really interesting how as soon as the GTR or Porsche get mentioned threads get all flamy, if it happened to an Evo, STi or M3 the flaming would be at a much lower level.......
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Maybe because people actually own EVOs, STi's and M3's, and no one seems to own a GTR or a 911 Turbo and so all they're doing is talking out their ass?
 
Spectre said:
Porsches just aren't as reliable as you make them out to be.
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I suppose that's why Porsche leads the JD Power quality survey for 3 years in a row, right?

Not to mention the European studies and surveys.

There is a difference between subjectiveness and objectiveness, you know...

Of course a Porsche on a tow truck raises more attention, than, say... a Nissan ;) Schadenfreude plays a big role in subjective oberservations like the ones you mentioned. Therefore I never trust them.
 
Spectre said:
Might want to go look at what the ZR1's carbon ceramic brake jobs are going to be. They're going to be even worse.

Pretty much anything with carbon ceramic brakes from the factory is going to be stupidly expensive. The first Porsche owners to get those discovered that initially, the price of a brake job was $20,000!
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Yeah that kind of dawned on me a few minutes after I posted. IIRC the $20k number for Porsche's was the price you paid for the optional package, not to service them. Although I never actually bothered to find out how much a Porsche brake service costs.

hansvonaxion said:
Huh? The GT-R doesn't have carbon ceramic brakes.
Or are they getting info regarding that for when they do introduce them on the V-spec? If they were an option I don't think I would get them, too much money for too little advantage and not the best option for the street (and the ridiculous maintenance cost you mention).
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So wait, you get cheap ass iron discs and probably "specially developed pads" which are just an aggressive set of HAWK's with a mark up worthy of Porsche? At least if they were carbon/ceramic units the wear rate might be low enough that the $7k price tag would be easier to swallow.
 
The Z06 has proven to be pretty solid over the last few years, full bore starts (with slicks or drag radials) top speed runs, relentless burnouts, drifting, large amounts of nitrous, turbo kits. I don't think I've seen but a couple fail in any regard. Same goes for the Viper.
 
MacGuffin said:
I suppose that's why Porsche leads the JD Power quality survey for 3 years in a row, right?

Not to mention the European studies and surveys.

There is a difference between subjectiveness and objectiveness, you know...

Of course a Porsche on a tow truck raises more attention, than, say... a Nissan ;) Schadenfreude plays a big role in subjective oberservations like the ones you mentioned. Therefore I never trust them.
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I don't seem to recall Porsche leading the JD Power surveys. Usually, it's Lexus, with Porsche way down. Show proof, please.
 
The real problem is Nissan made the car too cheap. They should have charged more so they could offer a better warranty. But if they did that, all these stupid chavs couldn't buy them and then abuse the shit out of them. Catch 22 imo.
 
Spectre said:
I don't seem to recall Porsche leading the JD Power surveys. Usually, it's Lexus, with Porsche way down. Show proof, please.
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We are on the internet, you know... Google is your friend ;) Why should I do the work for you?
 
"I'll take the Porsche Turbo for 300.."
 
Spectre said:
I don't seem to recall Porsche leading the JD Power surveys. Usually, it's Lexus, with Porsche way down. Show proof, please.
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For a third consecutive year, Porsche tops the overall nameplate rankings, averaging 87 PP100. Following in the rankings are Infiniti (which improves from 9th rank position in 2007), Lexus, Mercedes-Benz and Toyota, respectively. Audi posts the largest improvement in ranking, moving from 26th place in 2007 to 10th in 2008.
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http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.aspx?ID=2008063
 
Doesn't take more then a few secs guys...

http://www.jdpower.com/autos/rating...rand/sortcolumn-1/ascending/page-#page-anchor

In Overall Rankings Porsche is 1st with Infiniti, Lexus, Benz, Toyota, and Mercury being tied for 2nd.

But... as you guys are arguing about transmission and engine quality in that ranking (Powertrain Quality):

http://www.jdpower.com/autos/rating...and/sortcolumn-3/descending/page-#page-anchor

Lexus and Infiniti are tied for 1st with Porsche being 23rd.

So all that means is that if you like interiors and design then buy a Porsche but keep in mind they break down as much as a SAAB, Saturn, and Hyundai.
 
MacGuffin said:
We are on the internet, you know... Google is your friend ;) Why should I do the work for you?
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It's your responsibility to show proof of your argument, not for you to say something and everyone else A) just believe it because it's you or B) go see if you are BSing or not.

I'd say you just lost that discussion based on this alone.
 
Tadite said:
So all that means is that if you like interiors and design then buy a Porsche but keep in mind they break down as much as a SAAB, Saturn, and Hyundai.
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Which is of course good, considering the fact that a Porsche is usually handled a lot rougher than a Saab, is more on-the-edge technology than a Saturn and is definitely more used in quarter mile and traffic light races, than a Hyundai ;)

Besides, it's no problem to break down every car within a few minutes, if you treat it wrong.

Having said that, here's a chart from my home country:

http://www.anusedcar.com/index.php/tuv-model/porsche-911

The good thing about that chart is that you can directly compare it to other cars. For a laugh try it out with the Honda Accord. If you find one that ranked better than the 911 over time, tell me. I didn't find one. And those are statistical data, no subjective owner surveys!

I wonder what German Porsche drivers do differently, than Porsche drivers in the USA...

thedguy said:
It's your responsibility to show proof of your argument, not for you to say something and everyone else A) just believe it because it's you or B) go see if you are BSing or not.

I'd say you just lost that discussion based on this alone.
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I'm sorry. I should have done it but I simply despise it when somebody cries out for proof, when all he has to do is type two (!) words into Google. And I don't think in win or lose terms in discussions ;)
 
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wooflepoof said:
http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.aspx?ID=2008063
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That's the initial quality study; in other words, did they bolt the doors on properly and did they remember to put the engine in. Where's the long term study?

Tadite said:
But... as you guys are arguing about transmission and engine quality in that ranking (Powertrain Quality):

http://www.jdpower.com/autos/rating...and/sortcolumn-3/descending/page-#page-anchor

Lexus and Infiniti are tied for 1st with Porsche being 23rd.

So all that means is that if you like interiors and design then buy a Porsche but keep in mind they break down as much as a SAAB, Saturn, and Hyundai.
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Bingo, there it is. Not very reliable, there. Especially since, in my opinion, the "hard driving" that MacGuffin claims is the lot of Porsches is more than offset by the low miles they are actually driven. I don't think I've actually ever seen a high mileage (per years of age) Porsche.
 
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Well, we are talking about a brand new Nissan GT-R here, too, aren't we?

Besides, if you want long term results, check out the T?V chart in my posting above. In case you don't know what the T?V is: Wikipedia is your friend, too ;)
 
Can we get back to topic? Or are we done here?
 
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