Porsche accuses Nissan of cheating on the 'Ring

So what they've told us there is what we already know. GTR engines will differ from car to car due to each engine being hand built and each transmission being specially built for a specific car (if we're to believe Mr. Clarkson for the last fact)
Maybe it's just me, but shouldn't power ratings stay primarily the same even if the engine is hand built? It must be like buying a dog going to buy a GTR, "I want that one. . . ya, that one, it looks like pick of the litter, and it hasn't dribbled on me."

Look, at the end of the day dyno numbers don't mean a thing. I don't care what anyone says and how they spin it, they don't mean shit. A dyno is a duning device, period.

What we should look at for GTR performance, is the quarter mile runs. I've watched A LOT of them on youtube and the like, and 99% of them range from 11.4-11.6 @ 116-120mph. You go look at the difference in times of a ZO6 for example, without starting another war, it's just an example. I would say overall the GTRs are fairly consistant, and considering the GTR claims the same horsepower and torque (roughly) as the 911 Turbo, and they run VERY similar times down the quarter, that about says it all for me. Yes, I know the GTR is heavier so it should be slower down the quarter, BUT, it launches harder and I'll bet it's 60ft times are better than a 911 turbo.
Drag times don't mean much to me, I do know 911s accelerate like crazy with engine over the rear axles, and those meaty rear haunches. I'd think the 911 would be faster down the 1/4 but so much is do to talent.
 
Maybe it's just me, but shouldn't power ratings stay primarily the same even if the engine is hand built? It must be like buying a dog going to buy a GTR, "I want that one. . . ya, that one, it looks like pick of the litter, and it hasn't dribbled on me."
Yep. I think people are buying into this whole "hand built" thing a little much. It's not like Nissan have the work experience kid making them or that each part is made as a one off
 
The first batch of LS1 engine put into the first model Monaros were hand built I think - were later LS series aswell? There was so much difference in power outputs between each of those engines it wasn't funny.
 
The first batch of LS1 engine put into the first model Monaros were hand built I think - were later LS series aswell? There was so much difference in power outputs between each of those engines it wasn't funny.

Yes.. The LS7 in the Z06 is also handbuilt...
 
What does handbuilt even mean? Shouldn't it be hand assembled? To me hand built would mean that all the engine parts are actually made by hand such as the block and the heads. I seriously doubt that its the case, aren't all the parts machine produced and bolted together by hand?
 
^That's very true..
 
its like how restaurants aren't technically allowed to say anything is home made unless it was actually made in the home which would mean the house would need the proper licenses etc. "homestyle" is what you gotta say now
 
*click*

Exclusive: Nissan officially slams Porsche cheat claim


Will show tyres and video as evidence, offers Porsche driving tips

Nissan is standing firm on its claim to the production car lap record at the Nurburgring despite a blistering attack from Porsche.

And it has the tyres to prove it.

The German sports car maker accused Nissan of using special semi-race tyres when it set the Nurburgring benchmark at 7 minutes 29 seconds in April but the Japanese company is now going public with the actual Dunlop SP Sport 600 DSST CTT tyres used for the hot lap.

It is also offering video footage shot by the Japanese magazine 'Best Motoring" during the high-speed runs.

Nissan has also questioned the preparation of the customer GT-R used by Porsche for its in-house testing last month, where it claimed it could not get within 25 seconds of the Nissan time and that its 911 GT2 and Turbo were both quicker.

And, in a back-handed slap at Porsche, it has offered driving tips for anyone trying to get the best from a GT-R.

The man who led development of the Nissan supercar, chief engineer, Kazutoshi Mizuno, says the lap record car is a regular production GT-R.

?Testing a car with specialized parts such as unique tires or suspension has no meaning for us. The GT-R was designed from the start to be a supercar that could be driven anywhere, anytime and by anyone. For us, testing the car in standard production specification is far more relevant than creating a one-off vehicle that our customers cannot buy," Mizuno says.

Nissan has taken nearly a week to assemble the evidence it says clearly refutes the Porsche claims.

It has even offered to show the actual tyres from the record run, which were taken back by Sumitomo in Japan for promotional work, to prove they are identical to the rubber fitted to production cars.

"It is clear that there are some important facts that were not accurately represented," Nissan says in its official press release on the Porsche claims.

It states that the record run, by former F1 driver Toshio Suzuki, was even compromised by carrying around 50 kilograms of data logging equipment supplied by Marelli and camera equipment.

Without attacking Porsche directly, it has also questioned everything from the tyres on the customer car its rival used to its preparation and the skill of the driver - who Porsche describes as one of its chassis test engineers.

Nissan says there are two types of tyre fitted to the GT-R, and the clear inference from its reference to the Bridgestone Potenza RE070R is that these were fitted to the Porsche-run GT-R and not as quick on a track as the Dunlops it uses.

It has also indirectly questioned the preparation of Porsche's car by referring to the run-in and service procedure, as well as the special technique for driving the all-wheel drive supercar.

"We are aware that several auto makers have purchased the GT-R for their own testing and evaluation. Like all GT-R customers, we recommend that any auto maker buying a GT-R should follow the recommended run-in procedures, service schedules and maintenance to ensure the maximum performance from their car," Nissan says.

"In addition, we offer performance driving courses for prospective and current GT-R owners to help them get the best performance from their car. We would welcome the opportunity to help any auto manufacturer with understanding the full capabilities of the GT-R."

Nissan has gone into great detail on its work with the GT-R at the Nurburgring, including documenting its various track tests earlier this year and the method - the same one used by Sport Auto Magazine in Germany - it used to time the car.

And Mizuno even says the Nurburgring lap record was not the prime objective of the GT-R program.

?We have used circuits like the Nurburgring and Sendai extensively during the development of the GT-R. The fastest lap-time was never the objective but a simple parameter for us to measure the GT-R in a consistent way against other world class supercars," he says.
 
wow, so thats the gauntlet thrown down.

I love how they are actually saying Porsche engineers can't drive a GTR properly
 
What does handbuilt even mean? Shouldn't it be hand assembled? To me hand built would mean that all the engine parts are actually made by hand such as the block and the heads. I seriously doubt that its the case, aren't all the parts machine produced and bolted together by hand?

I understand it as the pistons, rods, head studs etc etc are all assembled by hand and not by machines. So some difference in piston ring bedin, valve clearances etc may show up as they're all done differently by different people.

I could be horribly wrong, but that's how I understand it.
 
But the tolerances are a lot finer than you would normally expect so, actually the output should be more consistent.

I'm going to try to organise a tour of the factory seeing as my old man is here now and says he wants to go. I'll let you know. ;)
 
wow, so thats the gauntlet thrown down.

I love how they are actually saying Porsche engineers can't drive a GTR properly

It's more than that.

Nissan to Porsche: "You're full of shit and here's proof."

What's really funny is that they're flipping one of Porsche's old justifications back at them. In the past, whenever someone would complain that a 911 wouldn't go as fast as Porsche claimed, Porsche would say that the complainant didn't know how to drive a 911.

Turnabout is fair play, Porsche. They're going to look like such idiots, along with all the Porsche supporters on this thread. :D
 
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wow, I read that article and thought: Finally, an official statement by one of them, and perhaps even the possibility that they?ll do a test and actually prove Porsche wrong. That?ll shut everyone up, great. Then I got to the end and read this:

"Nissan has gone into great detail on its work with the GT-R at the Nurburgring, including documenting its various track tests earlier this year and the method - the same one used by Sport Auto Magazine in Germany - it used to time the car."

Well I?d love to see the documentation. No one but the Sport Auto people themselves actually know how the supertest is conducted, and that goes especially for the ring lap. All we know is that they don?t do a full lap, and that it is very likely that they do a rolling start. Apart from that there is no evidence anywhere that it is always the same driver, or whether they actually go out on the track alone, jsut to name a few. With that sentence, in my eyes, they?ve basically lost all the credibility they built up by actually having the balls to issue an official statement.
 
Whatever. The most important thing here is that Nissan offered Walter Rohrl a performance driving course to teach him how to drive. :lol:
 
Whatever. The most important thing here is that Nissan offered Walter Rohrl a performance driving course to teach him how to drive. :lol:

Clearly he can't drive... :rolleyes:

What we should look at for GTR performance, is the quarter mile runs. I've watched A LOT of them on youtube and the like, and 99% of them range from 11.4-11.6 @ 116-120mph. You go look at the difference in times of a ZO6 for example, without starting another war, it's just an example. I would say overall the GTRs are fairly consistant, and considering the GTR claims the same horsepower and torque (roughly) as the 911 Turbo, and they run VERY similar times down the quarter, that about says it all for me. Yes, I know the GTR is heavier so it should be slower down the quarter, BUT, it launches harder and I'll bet it's 60ft times are better than a 911 turbo.

Seen this: http://drivers-republic.com/dr_tv/index.cfm?videoid=ae4bbc2e3a7349c9aba594c58978034e&area=features ?

Look at the dragrace between the 911 and the GT-R in the end. The 911 has 385hp and the GT-R prolly has 500.
 
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I must say I'd be very happy to see the 7:29 to be done again under the eyes of Porsche and others, just to show that the car can do it and thus to end heaps of speculation. Still, I'm not happy how the press deals with this. They're making it a much bigger issue than it actually is, and noone needs articles such as the one linked above me. Just let them guys sort it out, and if it officially ends with a thoroughly accepted 7:29, we can all be happy.
 
Well that made Porsche look stupid.

I think the way Nissan has handled it is hilarious. Basically suggesting that the Porsche guys are completely oblivious as to to how to test the GT-R, and how to drive the car around the track :p

Porsche can't be happy with this.. :)
 
Clearly he can't drive... :rolleyes:



Seen this: http://drivers-republic.com/dr_tv/index.cfm?videoid=ae4bbc2e3a7349c9aba594c58978034e&area=features ?

Look at the dragrace between the 911 and the GT-R in the end. The 911 has 385hp and the GT-R prolly has 500.

I have seen that clip and it has me baffled, because...

http://www.dpccars.com/car-videos-08/08-12-08page-Porsche-997-Turbo-Vs-Nissan-GT-R.htm

http://www.dpccars.com/car-videos-08/08-12-08page-Lamborghini-LP640-Vs-Nissan-GT-R.htm

So either that PDK gearbox is a phenomenon, or something else is going on. I mean the GTR even does ok against the LP640.
 
Could be a number of things, not using the LC and muffing the start, the PDK levelling the playing field. There isn't that much in it anyway.

And as for the driving style of the GT-R, from what I've read it takes a lot of faith to plant your foot before the apex (when you've already begun sliding) and let the car sort itself out. I imagine for an engineer, driving at the 'ring of all places, it may be a difficult style to adopt - especially after stepping out of a GT2!
 
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