2008 Post season thread.

Necx0

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Ok while there are quite a few threads about, I thought this one could be just one post from everybody summing up their thoughts on the 2008 season. A chance for everyone to get a clean slate before we all move into the 2009 Pre-Season thread.

Most people here know my love of epic essays so here we go.:)

Ferrari:
A poor season from the boys in red. No wonder Domenicali is losing is hair as at times there has been a definite hint of the "bad old days" with Ferrari. Their pit stop system was an answer to a question nobody was asking and ended up costing them the WDC and almost the WCC. Can someone please shoot the Ferrari PR man.

Felipe Massa:
Now I am not Felipe's biggest fan by a very large margin but I was heartbroken for him. He did everything he needed to do under the most immense pressure imaginable. However once emotion subsides there are still far too many holes in his driving to say he is of truly world championship calibre. When he is good he is sublime. At Turkey, Interlagos, Hungary and Valencia (and pole lap at Monaco) he produced speed, particularly over one lap, that no one else in the field had any answer for. However with these highs came with equally spectacular lows. He struggled to adapt to no TC as evidenced in Australia, Singapore and a lesser extent Bahrain. He is still not a particularly great wet weather driver (not helped by a very tricky Ferrari) but more importantly when things don't go his way he just gives up, see Shanghai, Hockenheim and Valencia. A lot of people have come out and said its ok he will win in the future. Personally I think this may have been his best and maybe only chance at a title. He had a car that suited his style driving against opponents who refused to perform at their best (Kimi, Lewis) or didn't have the machinery (Fernando, Kubica). However his improvement has been enormous and if he irons out a couple more bugs his sheer speed could take him a long way.

Highlight: Pole laps in Monaco, Singapore and Interlagos
Lowlight: Spinning of his own accord in Malaysia, spinning 6 times at Silverstone

Kimi Raikonnen:
I think we all expected more from the 2007 World Champ. His performance this year has been lacklustre. Yes the car, or more specifically the way it worked its tyres didn't suit him but that is no excuse. His speed is unquestioned. 10 fastest laps, a lot more than anyone else but his inability to put a lap together in qualifying meant it was for nothing. Car reliability hurt him in Australia and Magny Cours but his mistakes cost him far more. Throwing it off the road in Australia, Spa and Valencia. Also was susceptible to being pushed out of position, usually by Heikki. Needs to revitalise himself over Xmas as the signs are good for next year with a massive summer of testing for him. My hope for 2009 WDC :)

Highlight: Dominance at Catalunya
Lowlight: Crashing at Singapore

McLaren:
A happier year for McLaren, if nowhere near as successful (their 2007 points tally was 218 points compared to 151 for 2008). Whitmarsh seems to have taken over most of the running, he certainly does the lions share of interviews. He is charming and personable and that bodes well for the future of McLaren. Still really need to work on their decision making process as it has cost Lewis dearly this year just as it did last year.

Lewis Hamilton:
The title is a tremendous achievement for Lewis as he drove under immense pressure this year and it shows. For a young driver in his second season to carry the weight and expectation of a team such as McLaren is a huge burden. Did he drive as well as in 2007? Consistently no but when he hit his peaks he was mindblowing. He might just have the best "feel" for a Formula One car ever, certainly one of the best under braking. He takes an awful lot out of his machinery to achieve what he does but the speed he can get out of a car is just staggering. Such a beautiful distinctive style oversteering everywhere yet somehow the slides don't cost him time. A brilliant overtaker and sublime in tricky conditions yet far far from the finished article. His inability to wait for the right moment and pace himself almost lost him the championship. Also seems unable to strike a middle ground, he is either flat out aggressive or way too cautious. With the pressure of one title out of the way he can now work on becoming the complete race driver, if he does there is no reason why he can't win 4 or 5 or maybe more titles.

Highlight: ~7 seconds a lap faster than anyone on the same tyres at Silverstone
Lowlight: Canada, pit lane. Need I say more.

Heikki Kovalainen:
A massive disappointment yet he has no real weak areas. He is good in the wet, doesn't make many mistakes, has the raw speed and can fight wheel to wheel. For some reason his ultimate pace when it matters just disappears. Why he can match Lewis in Q2 only to suddenly lose 3 tenths a lap for the rest of the weekend on McLaren know. He has had his share of bad luck this year, 2 engine failures, gearbox malfunction, wheel malfunction. However it is reasonable to expect that without these problems a McLaren would finish high in the points everytime, which Heikki has failed to do. Super nice guy, very dedicated and deserves a second chance at a McLaren seat, but he has to make the most of this opportunity to avoid being replaced next year.

Highlight: Formula 1 drifting at Silverstone
Lowlight: Hasn't done anything truly terrible

BMW:
Severe irony that given BMW's ultimate goal of winning the World Championship, had they kept up with car development this could have been the best chance they would ever get. After their victory in Canada development ceased given they had achieved their 2008 goal, which is fair enough given that no-one could have realised that Ferrari and McLaren would continue to self destruct. Better hope the '09 car is brilliant.

Robert Kubica:
Up until Shanghai arguably the driver that deserved the title most. With the exception of Silverstone been largely error free and made the most of the machinery given to him. His performance particularly impressive given the teams focus was trying to fix "Quick Nick" for a large portion of the season. His performance in the last two races smacks of a driver that couldn't be bothered. His animosity towards the team has been well documented so maybe this was his way of getting back at the team that cost him a chance at the WDC. His desperate and pathetic attempt at getting involved in the title race at Interlagos will not earn him any favours with his peers, Senna would've killed him. However if the '09 BMW challenger is within a tenth or two of the front runners he will be one of the favourites for the title.

Highlight: His win at Canada was well deserved
Lowlight: His antics at Interlagos

Nick Heidfeld:
A man lucky to hang on to his seat. Has been poor for most of the season with only the BMW speed in race trim allowing him to haul himself into regular points paying positions. The fact that he ends the season only 15 points behind Kubica is deeply misleading and flattering given that Kubica has destroyed him most of the year. A good consistent race driver but I doubt he will match Kubica next year either and could possibly be his last year in a top line car.

Highlight: Drive to 2nd at Silverstone was very very good
Lowlight: Q16 in a BMW!!

Renault:
It is very rare in this era of F1 (or indeed an era!) that a team can have such a dramatic turnaround of form. To turn what was simply an utter dog of a car into a podium placing car in the course of one season is a huge credit to the Renault engineering department. Given an increase in budget next year could return to the top of the table if they get the design process right first up.

Fernando Alonso:
For me the driver of the season. He drove that Renault to places that it simply shouldn't have been all year. Even forgetting his incredible last season run in a car that was finally competitive, qualifying second in Catalunya and routinely making Q3 when Piquet couldn't escape Q1 was just immense driving. If his stock was damaged by 2007 surely he has more than made up for it this year. Perhaps a difficult character but surely worth the effort given the results he can extract from a race car. Fabulous one lap pace, metronomic consistency and largely immune to pressure (on the race track at least). A good match with the Renault team as well and I hope he stays there for next year.

Highlight: Front row at Valencia. Dominance at Fuji
Lowlight: Beaten home by Piquet in France

Nelson Piquet:
Nelson has copped a lot of flak yet he has been solid this year. He has been unlucky in being partnered with Alonso and perhaps not getting the support from the team he required. However even when the car became competitive he didn't do anything special with it. Accident in Valencia, ok the car was hard to drive but thats why you are in Formula 1! Drove well in Fuji and Shanghai but made mistakes by running wide at key points of the race. Lesser talents than Nelsinho have kept their drives in Formula 1, but based on this years performance there are probably better talents around.

Highlight: Drive in Germany was good (albeit lucky)
Lowlight: Crashing in Singapore (at least others crashed in Monaco!)

Red Bull:
A disappointing year from a team that have the budget and personnel to be challenging higher than they should. Initial pace was quite good but failed to develop their car over the course of the season to keep pace with their rivals. A lacklustre Renault powerplant didn't help, and they haven't seemed to enjoy the benefits of the "unfreezing" process like the works team did. A very strong management and design team and a very strong drive line up next year means all the ingredients for success are there, but I feel they may struggle next year.

Mark Webber:
Another ho-hum season for one of F1's great under-achievers. Given the speed and talent of Webber he must view this season as a terrible disappointment. The season promised much with regular points scoring finishes yet fizzled out with the car speed disappearing. At least it was reasonably reliable! I don't know whether Webber is WDC material but I reckon had he been in a McLaren this year he would have done a much better job than Heikki did. Time has probably run out for him to join a top team so hopefully Newey has a magic pen for next year's car!

Highlight: Front row at Silverstone.....
Lowlight: Which lasted 4 corners

David Coulthard:
Terrible season, surely his worst in F1. Only two points finishes (one of them a gifted podium in Canda) and a trail of carbon fibre from Australia to Interlagos. Crashes in Australia, Bahrain, Catalunya, Silverstone, Fuji and Interlagos just off the top of my head, not to mention hitting the wall of his own accord at Monaco. Yes others have run into him but Dave must have a habit of putting his car exactly where other drivers want to go. Even without this he has been outqualifed 16-2 and out scored 21-8 by Webeer. A great ambassador to the sport but the time had definitely come for him to hang up his gloves. His season gets 1 raised kilt out of 10, however his career deserves at least 7.

Highlight: His radio call at Canada
Lowlight: Ending his last Monaco in the Casino Square wall.

Toyota:
Getting rid of the mobile chicane that was Ralf Schumacher was the best decision Toyota have made in their time in the sport. Perhaps he forgot to take his bulging wallet out of his pocket before each race. While they are still under achieving given their budget they have taken a decent step forward this season to be challenging the midfield. Their car seemed quite circuit sensitive though, very quick in France and Hungary yet nowhere at Spa.

Jarno Truilli:
Still mega quick on his day, although Toyota are surely alone in thinking he is the best qualifier on the grid. His performances relative to Glock have slipped later in the season and I think he will have his work cut out next year trying to keep in front of him. Still deserving of a place on the grid. The Truilli train is still a factor in Grand Prix racing, not helped by the fact the Toyota was horrible on a full tank of fuel, maybe he has been giving Heikki tips?

Highlight: Podium at Magny Cours
Lowlight: Like Heikki, nothing truly (haha pun!!) terrible

Timo Glock:
More impressive than I was expecting. Took the better half of a season to settle in however since then has been a consistent points finisher. His podium in Hungary gave him much needed confidence, particularly after the shunt in Germany. His performance at Interlagos proves that while perhaps not a front runner, given a decent car next year we should expect regular points finishes from Glock and he may have the measure of Truilli.

Highlight: Podium at Hungary
Lowlight: Terrible start to the year

Williams:
The sentimental favourites. Unfortunately in real economic trouble and without a major sponsor for next year may not be around much longer. Frank Williams and Patrick Head surely have their places reserved in the Formula One hall of fame but I wonder if they still have what it takes to run a competitive modern day Formula One team. Without some revitalisation and some more money they will be a prime target for a takeover, and that would be a terribly sad day indeed for Formula One.

Nico Rosberg:
Annoyingly inconsistent. Was at times very quick such as in Singapore and Monaco yet other times couldn't seem to make it out of Q1. Must be seriously regretting not doing all he could to grab the McLaren seat this year, it may turn out to be his version of the Webber debacle, not taking the '05 Renault seat. Would be interesting to see him in a top car, I rate him higher than Piquet, but I don't think he is a Vettel or a Hamilton.

Highlight: Was quick in Singapore
Lowlight: Massive Monaco shunt

Kazuki Nakajima:
Not as bad as I thought he would be. Was pretty awful at the beginning of the year yet managed to string together a few drives before falling completely off the radar towards the end of the year. At least he stopped running into people. His drive is surely still dependent on his affiliation with Toyota but he has shown signs of improvement over the season and kept Rosberg honest on occasion.

Highlight: Drive in the wet of Monaco to get 7th when plenty of others DNF'd
Lowlight: Shunting Coulthard and Alonso among others.

Honda:
Oh dear oh dear. Honda should have asked to borrow the Safety car for the '08 season, it would have been faster and more reliable. Or perhaps flushing their substantial budget down the toilet would have been a wiser investment. Their woeful performance was matched only by their hideous uniform. Obviously there was something fundamentally wrong in both their organisation and their car. If their '09 car isn't a podium finisher straight out of the box they are going to look monumentally stupid. I have faith in the genius of Ross Brawn to bring this team together. Their driver line up is one of the strongest in F1.

Jenson Button:
I still rate Jenson very highly but he has done nothing spectacular this year, even in difficult conditions where he usually shines. One can hardly blame the man for lacking motivation, his career hangs on the quality of Honda's '09 car. Ruebens is still fast enough to give him headaches but I think with a decent car he will be able to match him easily. The move to slicks might not work to his advantage due to his ultra smooth style. Honda need to give him a good car, if only to reward him for his loyalty! Seems like an ultra nice guy as well. I'm still a fan, although many disagree.

Highlight: Points in Catalunya
Lowlight: Being outqualied by Ruebens

Ruebens Barrichello:
Still deserves a place on the grid and if this Brazilian goes while another stays (Piquet) or comes along (Senna) then there is no justice in the world. Unlike Jenson he has grasped his chances to shine with both hands with supreme wet weather ability. His drive at Silverstone was brilliant. If Honda get rid of this man they need their heads examined. Still a great driver with so much to offer and can push Jenson all the way. Also his relationship with Ross Brawn I imagine is quite strong.

Highlight: His drives in Monaco and Silverstone
Lowlight: Losing his gloves in the Singapore harbour

Toro Rosso:
The surprise packets of 2008 thats for sure. The RB4/Ferrari combination is formidable, especially after Gerhard managed secure the latest spec Ferrari motor. I would have loved to be in on that meeting! Surely been helped by their Wunderkind this team is still relatively old school Formula 1 and its a shame they may not be round in this guise for much longer.

Sebastien Vettel:
After I watched Vettel at the 2007 Race of Champions I was blown away by just how good this guy is. He can drive the wheels off anything and everything with beautiful control, as evidenced by his wet weather finesse. His age means that managing his head will be the biggest issue, and he seems to have great people around him at Toro Rosso. Hopefully they follow him to RBR. A difficult start to the season get caught up in first lap incidents (Coulthard disease) made way for consistent Q1 appearances and points finishes. His drive at Monza was supreme under enormous pressure in terrible conditions. A future world champion hopefully. Very funny too. Hopefully Red Bull give him a decent car to allow him to shine.

Sebastien Bourdais:
The points tally says it all really. Vettel outscored him 35-4. However while that doesn't necessarily tell the whole story, Bourdais has improved over the course of the season, he has still been outdriven by Vettel at pretty much every round this year. It was always going to be difficult adjusting to the Formula One world, and I think he has done a pretty good job. But its a steep learning curve and there aren't going to be very many people looking for a 29 year old driver with limited experience. Given his nationality Renault is the most likely candidate and they have zero interest. Unlikely to be on the grid next year.

Highlight: Qualifying 4th at Monza
Lowlight: Crashing out at Monaco of his own accord

Force India:
Over the course of this year Force India have moved from the back of the field to.......well the back of the field, yet significantly closer to the front. Unlucky to end the season with no points given Sutil's performance in Monaco. It wouldn't surprise me to hear that in terms of pace gained over the season that Force India would be the best, perhaps behind Renault. Next year will be the major indicator of whether Mallya's investment in the team is paying off.

Adrian Sutil:
Sutil won something this year, with 11(!!!) DNF's he has probably walked a lot more miles during race weekends than anyone else. His performance at Monaco was impressive, as it was in 2007 but apart from that has failed to shine. Fisichella has been outshone by almost every teammate he has ever had yet not by Sutil which might be a worry. Haven't really seen enough of him to make any other comment.

Highlight: Monaco
Lowlight: Accident at Catalunya was pretty poor

Giancarlo Fisichella:
Gone from the front of the grid to the back of the grid in 2 years but still a good racer and a quick enough driver on his day. Brings much needed experience to the Force India crew and glad he is on the grid next year. As long as he can remain on terms with Sutil he should earn his dollars.

Highlight: Drove well at Interlagos
Lowlight: Drove terribly at Singapore, turn 10 must have given him nightmares.

The cars:
As I said in another thread its a shame we don't have one more year of the current regulations. The cars are so tight now that it would be a hell of a season. Taking away traction control made them fabulous to watch. They are just the right side of over powered. Were we still in the V10 era the cars would be 1000hp+ which would make them an even bigger joke in the wet and give serious problems in the dry. Yes it is very difficult to overtake and all the aero stuff makes them look crap but they sound brilliant and their performance is just staggering. No TC means that as long as there is on board footage, there is no such thing as a boring race as you can watch all these guys fight these cars. They have certainly earned their money.

The tracks:
2008 saw more of the classic F1 tracks disappear much to the detriment of the sport. The best races this year have been Silverstone, Monza, Interlagos and Spa and I don't think its coincidence. Yes you can say that has been down to the weather but it is the location of these tracks that makes for unpredictable weather (with perhaps the exception of Monza). Its not bloody likely to rain in Abu Dhabi is it!! The move to flat, featureless tarmac expanses is unfortunately going to continue.


Its been an amazing season. The stewards debacle has dampened it somewhat but we have seen some of the all time great races with some results that no-one could have foreseen. Hopefully next year the title will be hard fought between the following:

Hamilton-McLaren, Raikonnen-Ferrari, Alonso-Renault, Kubica-BMW with Vettel, Truilli and Massa snapping at their heels.
 
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This is my order of who deserved the championship the most:

1. Kubica
2. Massa
3. Hamilton
4. Alonso

Massa and Kubica were by far the most impressive this year. I think Massa learned a lot from this past year and if he is as quick of a learner as I believe him to be, he will be pretty unstoppable next year that is also assuming that Ferrari can keep their errors to a minimum.

Renault really needs to shape up for next year, I feel they could've been a lot better this year if it wasn't for the unstable chassis they had early in the season, it got better as the season progressed but, I feel it really hindered Alonso's overall performance.
 
Wow you're really underselling Nick Heidfeld, and not telling the full story on Piquet. Heidfeld had some bad qualifying performences, but still manged to finish in 2nd place on 3 different occasions. Most of the time his race pace was bang on with kubica.

Piquet on the other hand, how can you say he had a "soild" year? His year was terrible, he crashed out on his own on several occasions (Monaco, Interlagos, and Singapore, just off the top of my head) up until the end of the season, he was routinely not making it past Q1, and just being plain slow. If he didn't have a famous last name, he wouldn't have finished the season.

Otherwise, this is a good write up, and look forward to reading the rest.

PS: You may be too forgiving for Heikki Kovalainen. He was not a good number 2 driver this year. There is no reason why Lewis should be fighting for 1st or 2nd in almost every race, while Heikki is further back, ultimately finishing 5th or 6th. There were times when he should have been right there, giving Lewis cover, or just challenging for wins himself, but he simply wasn't. Now I see why he was Mclarens third choice, after Rosber and Vettel.
 
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First off yay logical rational discussion!! :p

Yes I am damning of Heidfeld and yes he has had some good results this year. He is a good solid driver but his race drive with BMW for '09 is a matter of no other option, not Nick's performances. Even Thiessen said that he has not been impressive.

I struggled with calling Piquet solid as he has had a bad start but I really think thats what he has been. He was slow in a slow car at the start of the year and he was quick-ish in a quick car at the end of the year. If he is replaced I won't lose any sleep as I don't think he will turn into a top line driver but I don't think he has been utterly atrocious. Yes his only decent result of the year at Hockenheim was lucky but it was a mature drive amongst the front runners so there is talent there.

Surely calling Heikki a "massive disappointment" isn't too forgiving:p?

Not saying any of this to try and change your mind, but I wouldn't write anything without justification to back it up :) Back to the main story haha
 
Good read :) Bit harsh at times, but it's not a newspaper :p
 
I think that next year is shaping up to be a great year - now the only bugger who can cods it up are the FIA. More teams are going to be competitive and the drivers seem to be getting better - pick from Alonso, Kubica, Hamilton and the two Ferrari boys for next years WDC IMHO and Ferrari to repeat the WCC.
 
Kimi Raikonnen:
I think we all expected more from the 2007 World Champ. His performance this year has been lacklustre. Yes the car, or more specifically the way it worked its tyres didn't suit him but that is no excuse. His speed is unquestioned. 10 fastest laps, a lot more than anyone else but his inability to put a lap together in qualifying meant it was for nothing. Car reliability hurt him in Australia and Magny Cours but his mistakes cost him far more. Throwing it off the road in Australia, Spa and Valencia. Also was susceptible to being pushed out of position, usually by Heikki. Needs to revitalise himself over Xmas as the signs are good for next year with a massive summer of testing for him. My hope for 2009 WDC :)

I think it's very much an excuse. The car's characteristics quite obviously meant that he had hard time warming up the tyres, which cost him in qualifying as he did not have the tyres at their best, often costing him places and putting him behind slower traffic. If it had been once or twice I would put it down to inconsistency on driver's part but it happened on most races this year which makes it pretty obvious that the car did not suit him. The tyre heat characteristic was also underlined by the poor wet weather performance for both Ferraris.

It's no excuse for his mistakes tho.

Hopefully next year's Ferrari will suit him better...
 
Good read :) Bit harsh at times, but it's not a newspaper :p

Cheers mate :) Could I do better?? Not a hope in hell so maybe its poor form being an armchair expert, but I think that these are meant to be the 20 best circuit drivers in the world so why not be harsh :p

It's no excuse for his mistakes tho.

Hopefully next year's Ferrari will suit him better...

I see where you are coming from and maybe it should be a criticism of Ferrari given that BMW did so much to help Heidfeld yet Kimi seemed to be getting nowhere. I was just disappointed they didn't turn it around. With 9,000k's of testing ahead of him I sincerely hope the F2009 suits Kimi very nicely:)
 
Wow you're really underselling Nick Heidfeld, and not telling the full story on Piquet. Heidfeld had some bad qualifying performences, but still manged to finish in 2nd place on 3 different occasions. Most of the time his race pace was bang on with kubica.

He mostly saved by BMW strategy and got some very lucky breaks with the safety car at times. Most races he was down the order, off the pace and would've had no hope had chance not intervened. He'll keep his seat for 2009 most likely due to the fact that there's noone else at the moment to replace him. Needs to pull his socks up now.

maxorido said:
Piquet on the other hand, how can you say he had a "soild" year? His year was terrible, he crashed out on his own on several occasions (Monaco, Interlagos, and Singapore, just off the top of my head) up until the end of the season, he was routinely not making it past Q1, and just being plain slow. If he didn't have a famous last name, he wouldn't have finished the season.

Totally agree. Piquet was by far the worst driver of the season.

maxorido said:
PS: You may be too forgiving for Heikki Kovalainen. He was not a good number 2 driver this year. There is no reason why Lewis should be fighting for 1st or 2nd in almost every race, while Heikki is further back, ultimately finishing 5th or 6th. There were times when he should have been right there, giving Lewis cover, or just challenging for wins himself, but he simply wasn't. Now I see why he was Mclarens third choice, after Rosber and Vettel.

Again, I agree. One wonders just where Alonso would've come had he been in that McLaren seat. Heikki failed to make the most of the car and was totally dominated by Hamilton. Part of that is due to Hamilton's supreme talent and it's reasonable to expect that McLaren were probably a bit more focused on Hamilton's car as he was the one bringing home the goods. But the team can't afford for Heikki to be fighting it out for seventh with BMWs, Toyotas and Renaults when he should be up there providing support for Hamilton and taking points away from the Ferrari duo.

It is only his first season at McLaren so he deserves another season to get fully acclimatised with the team and I expect him to step up in 2009. He has to win races where Hamilton is not in a position to do so, and score consistent podiums at the very least. If he can't manage that then I imagine Rosberg will be more than happy to take his role.

Cellos88GT said:
Massa and Kubica were by far the most impressive this year. I think Massa learned a lot from this past year and if he is as quick of a learner as I believe him to be, he will be pretty unstoppable next year that is also assuming that Ferrari can keep their errors to a minimum

You say Massa's still learning, but he's been in the sport for seven years now. I think we've seen what he has to offer, which is blinding qualifying and race pace, but theres still always a chance he'll throw it at the scenery as he's known to do from time to time. I think the Ferrari suited his style of driving more than it did Raikkonen, and with the Finn working hard over the winter to recifty those problems he had, Massa is unlikely to feature as much as he did this season.
 
He mostly saved by BMW strategy and got some very lucky breaks with the safety car at times. Most races he was down the order, off the pace and would've had no hope had chance not intervened. He'll keep his seat for 2009 most likely due to the fact that there's noone else at the moment to replace him. Needs to pull his socks up now.

Now that I think about it more, you're correct that there were times where his bad qualifying had to be salvaged by BMW strategy. He really needs to step it up next season, as I'd like to see him win a grand prix. His 2007 season was fantastic, as he outperformed Kubica, but now that the car seems to suit Robert more, the tables have turned. This sounds like the issue with Kimi at Ferrari, although not quite as bad.





You say Massa's still learning, but he's been in the sport for seven years now. I think we've seen what he has to offer, which is blinding qualifying and race pace, but theres still always a chance he'll throw it at the scenery as he's known to do from time to time. I think the Ferrari suited his style of driving more than it did Raikkonen, and with the Finn working hard over the winter to recifty those problems he had, Massa is unlikely to feature as much as he did this season.

Absolutely. I though This season this was definitely Massa's best shot at the title. Kimi was in a massive slump, and if he comes back as the Iceman we remember him as, Massa is in for another year as the Ferrari number 2. I love his passion, but his inconsistency, and the potential of his teammate are going to pose problems for him next year.
 
Isn't it nice when we all agree :p FBC come quick!!!
 
You say Massa's still learning, but he's been in the sport for seven years now. I think we've seen what he has to offer, which is blinding qualifying and race pace, but theres still always a chance he'll throw it at the scenery as he's known to do from time to time. I think the Ferrari suited his style of driving more than it did Raikkonen, and with the Finn working hard over the winter to recifty those problems he had, Massa is unlikely to feature as much as he did this season.

I'm not trying to say Massa is inexperienced by any means or that he has lots to learn, I'm just saying that he can make a few slight adjustments to be a little better IMO. The car definitely suited his driving style more however, I don't think the car is completely to blame for Raikkonen's ho-hum performance. He just didn't seem as aggressive at times...
 
Wow, is it your longest post ever on FG? :p

Great read as always, I hope you keep it up next year ;)
 
First off yay logical rational discussion!!
Well, quite. +20 internet points aside, you now have the responsibility of being the father of my man-babies - anything KaJuN can do, and all that - for writing this post. I was going to do the same, but everything I was going to say, you've done there, in exactly the kind of rational, intelligently-thought-out depth I was planning on. May this thread continue in the way it has done so far rather than descending into the usual tedious, tedious "I HATE LEWIS I HATE RON I HATE MCLAREN" crowing from the Ferrari fanboys in flashing neon letters, and the resultant "I HATE SCHUMACHER* I HATE FERRARI" retorts (* yes, so he's not driving any more, but is still far more deeply ingrained with Ferrari that the current two ever will be) from the Ferrari anti-fanboys.

Obviously, to continue the discussion, I'll point out that I cannot agree with your sacking of S?bastien Bourdais, and I left my reasons on a different thread. I still want to see him do well, I genuinely believe that Toro Rosso should keep him on for one more season, and he'll deliver far more this time round. After that, I get the impression that if he stays in F1 he'll end up like Nick Heidfeld - never quite in the right car at the right time, and when he is it won't work out well.

Comparing him to Sebastian Vettel isn't the fairest of tests - I'd put him up against other drivers who have come from US racing, and on that point he's overtaken Alex Zanardi's 1999 performance, but for all the eventual problems, Juan Pablo Montoya still blows him into the weeds. Whatever happens, though, Old Seb can always say he's a legend in America.
 
Well, quite. +20 internet points aside, you now have the responsibility of being the father of my man-babies

Obviously, to continue the discussion, I'll point out that I cannot agree with your sacking of S?bastien Bourdais, and I left my reasons on a different thread. I still want to see him do well, I genuinely believe that Toro Rosso should keep him on for one more season, and he'll deliver far more this time round. After that, I get the impression that if he stays in F1 he'll end up like Nick Heidfeld - never quite in the right car at the right time, and when he is it won't work out well.

Comparing him to Sebastian Vettel isn't the fairest of tests - I'd put him up against other drivers who have come from US racing, and on that point he's overtaken Alex Zanardi's 1999 performance, but for all the eventual problems, Juan Pablo Montoya still blows him into the weeds. Whatever happens, though, Old Seb can always say he's a legend in America.

First off I am humbled to have the honour of carrying your "man babies" :lol:

You make a good point with the comparison, He certainly did better than Zanardi and a LOT better than a certain Michael Andretti. I think he is a very good driver capable of delivering results, just in the current F1 climate where youth is everything I can't see any teams being willing to take him on.

Wow, is it your longest post ever on FG? :p

Great read as always, I hope you keep it up next year ;)

I think its the longest post in the history of TEH INTERNETZ!!!! :lol:

More to the point I can't believe all you people are sad enough to read it!!! Get a life!! :p No seriously I am glad that people enjoy it or get a giggle or it makes them angry or whatever. Thankyou to everyone that gave me +rep this year. The essays will be back better than ever in '09
 
Kimi Raikonnen:
I think we all expected more from the 2007 World Champ. His performance this year has been lacklustre. Yes the car, or more specifically the way it worked its tyres didn't suit him but that is no excuse. His speed is unquestioned. 10 fastest laps, a lot more than anyone else but his inability to put a lap together in qualifying meant it was for nothing. Car reliability hurt him in Australia and Magny Cours but his mistakes cost him far more. Throwing it off the road in Australia, Spa and Valencia. Also was susceptible to being pushed out of position, usually by Heikki. Needs to revitalise himself over Xmas as the signs are good for next year with a massive summer of testing for him. My hope for 2009 WDC images/smilies/smile.gif

i was just going over all the youtube videos celebrating drivers and such, he looked like he was having loads of fun in the past years, even with the 50% destruction rate of the mcLaren. clearly underperforming sucks the life out of kimi. No racer can race if he is unhappy - button is another case and point.

Rubens: Lowlight: Losing his gloves in the Singapore harbour
HAHAHA i thought it was a HIGH point, I loved it.. he just smiled after :lol:
 
I'm just wondering. Hamilton's probably a stronge candidate for this years BBC Sports Personality of the Year. Is this gonna be a Hamilton whitewash or is anyone at Team GB gonna win the prize after 2008 being Britain's most successful Olympic year? Up until a few months ago, you would put lots of money on one of the Olympians.
 
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