E34lover
Active Member
Really? I've heard from some other people that if you turbo the stock engine it has a lot of heating issues but then again those other people were a bunch of dumb teens.
300zx vs Miata for first car
- Thread starter E34lover
- Start date
Really? I've heard from some other people that if you turbo the stock engine it has a lot of heating issues but then again those other people were a bunch of dumb teens.
buckers13
Active Member
it is also good to point out that the z's your looking at are quite old in comparison to the mx5's. My flat mate recently got a 1990 tt 300zx. And it's had so many problems... numerous vacuum leaks, failing o2 sensors, detonation sensor was gone etc etc. If you are going to check out some zx's, really take a PROPER look. Get it checked out completely by a mechanic. If you don't, you'll jump in for a test drive put your foot flat, fall in love with the power, buy the thing, and then a few days later you'll realise the numerous problems!
Ottobon
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For the love of god, get the Miata. I totally apprieciate your inner angst for a turbo sputtering, flame spitting monster, but trust me, you WILL have more fun in the miata, especially at your level of experience. The 300zx would be like dating a dominatrix, could be alot of fun, but then she might try to strangle you to death about every other day. Not really the type of girl one should intend to loose their virginity to, especially if you want to be able to make babies some day.
The Miata on the other hand is fun at normal speeds, speeds at which cops wont constantly be pulling you over, furthermore its extremely forgiving, so when you end up doing little drifts and donuts in vacant parking lots, you won't end up hitting a lamppost, and furthermore you won't end up feeling like a idiot and then blaming cars for everything wrong in your life and inevitably turning into a car-loathing environmentalist.
Spectre
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Missed this earlier. While I am recommending the guy buy the Miata instead of the Z32, your post merits the following mandatory response:
Suck it, Datsun hater. :lol:
tigger
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I'm going to recommend the Miata as well. It's silly how much fun they are to drive. Being slow isn't so bad when you don't have to brake for corners 
. Plus it's easier to work on, gets better gas mileage, cheaper insurance, etc etc.
. Plus it's easier to work on, gets better gas mileage, cheaper insurance, etc etc.
Jay
the fool on the hill
Take it from a guy who sells Nissan parts for a living; avoid the 300ZX. Especially a turbo model.
Rule of thumb on luxury sports cars like the 300ZX, Supra and 3000GT: If you couldn't afford them when they were factory new, you cannot afford to maintain them. Adjusted for inflation, these cars were $35-50,000 new.
Get a Miata and have fun flinging it around. It will also teach you how to properly drive, as a Miata is inherently set up to teach, but not punish the limits of driving. After that, a S2000 will take you to the fourth dimension of driving, for sure.
Rule of thumb on luxury sports cars like the 300ZX, Supra and 3000GT: If you couldn't afford them when they were factory new, you cannot afford to maintain them. Adjusted for inflation, these cars were $35-50,000 new.
Get a Miata and have fun flinging it around. It will also teach you how to properly drive, as a Miata is inherently set up to teach, but not punish the limits of driving. After that, a S2000 will take you to the fourth dimension of driving, for sure.
E34lover
Active Member
well actually the way my aunt's finances are set up that might not be a problem because my aunt wanted to get me a 2009 wrx but it's the insurance that killed her (6000 a year).
ttw
Member
Go easy, get a Miata.
Why to have a 300bhp monster for first car.
Learn to handle a car first then get something faster.
I don't want to sound like nasty bitch or anything, just an advice.
"1800kg/130hp & Automatic as a first car"
Why to have a 300bhp monster for first car.
Learn to handle a car first then get something faster.
I don't want to sound like nasty bitch or anything, just an advice.
"1800kg/130hp & Automatic as a first car"
Jay
the fool on the hill
Sure, but a 2009 WRX has a warranty.
I am glad 16 has come and passed. For full coverage (and I am paranoid) I pay $700 a year for insurance.
kennethcho1337
Member
I currently drive a miata, its the third gen however. I would agree that the miata would give you a lot more fun especially during the summer months when you have th option to go top down. Also the miata is a killer autocross car, almost all of the top times at my local autocross are done with miatas. They might be a bit underpowered but damn do they handle well, 50/50 weight distribution with go-kart like handling. You can't go wrong.
BlaRo
Little Nudger
You're the only one that still gives me credit for that at least.
300ZX TTs are dirt cheap, but don't be fooled - good-edition stock ones will hold their value, and it's usually cars with 100k+ miles, hideous body kits, or both that are cheap. If those turbos go, they're a bitch to get into and replace. The engine bay is so crammed and jam-packed with industrial-strength piping and bits that you could throw a handful of change in there and still get it all back.
300ZX NAs, on the other hand, are dirt cheap as well and offer similar thrills with 222hp. Since they were expensive when new, have either been cherished by their protective owners (especially on turbo models) or trashed by legions of clueless owners. The VG30DE engine is
Either way, you're getting a good-looking, rare, reliable, comfortable, well-equipped car built by a company with great OEM and aftermarket parts support. All 300ZXs had t-tops as well so you don't have to completely miss out on the wind in your hair.
Twinturbo.net is a huge forum for Z32s, I highly recommend reading this FAQ while you go kick some tires.
Miatas aren't bad choices either, but who wants to get away with driving one when they're still in high school?
E34lover
Active Member
kennethcho1337
Member
Either car is great, the miata offers a more go-kart like machine while the 300ZX would be a bit heavier but also more comfortable with more creature comforts
MadCow809
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Any guy driving a mx-5
Pretty much what goes through my mind when I see one
It's human nature to go fast, just because the MX5 is slow, it doesn't mean that you won't be able to crash it.
Dogbert
Helsinki Smash Rod
And if you ever decided that you wanted to learn how to really drive your Miata, the Mazdaspeed Development program is pretty much THE best in the country, and gives prize money and factory support for any type of motorsport you can possibly think of.
www.mazdaspeeddevelopment.com - WARNING: The page is apparently hacked right now.
www.mazdaspeeddevelopment.com - WARNING: The page is apparently hacked right now.
Nocturnal
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure where all these opinions come from that the Miata is a slow car. As stock, in the snow on street tyres, I ran a recorded 16.8 @ 81mph and a 0-60 time of 8.1 seconds, 17 years after my car was produced. Exactly what Mazda said my '91 1600cc would do all those years ago. While that's not exactly tarmac-shredding, to put it into context:
BMW 325 (E46) - 16.9 @ 82mph, 0-60 8.5 secs
BMW Z4 2.0L ('05) - 17.2 @ 79mph, 0-60 8.7secs
Lexus IS200 Sport - 17.4 @ 79mph, 0-60 9.05secs
Mercedes SLK200 - 17.1 @ 80mph, 0-60 8.7secs
Porsche 944 - 16.2 @ 84mph, 0-60 7.8secs
Alfa Romeo Brera - 16.6 @ 85mph, 0-60 8.25secs
Audi TT 150 - 17.5 @ 80mph, 0-60 9.06secs
Citroen Saxo VTS - 16.6 @ 83mph, 0-60 8.14secs
Now, as I said, none of these cars are what you might call 'fast' in a straight line. But to call them slow and/or underpowered is unfair. The Miata certainly never feels underpowered, and with the cars weighing in at around the tonne mark, ~120bhp is ample enough to propel the car in any given direction.
Besides, I came to this car after owning a Stage 2 Nissan 200SX RS13, which ran consistently mid/low 13 second quarter mile passes. On the Nurburgring, my BTG time dropped by over 3 minutes in my Miata. Now, my Miata is modified, though is still N/A, and power-wise is near enough stock. If I were to start again with my car and not have the trial/error period of buying parts that weren't much good to me, I could buy and build the same car for less than ?1500. On track, in it's current spec (without the cut-slicks) I've had the pleasure of 'beating' all kinds of exotic machinery, from 500bhp Evos and bike-engined single seaters in the UK round Croft, to 997 Porsche 911 GT2s, Ferrari F430 Scuderias and GSXR1000 bikes round the Nurburgring in Germany.
The point is, there's so much more to driving fast than having power. In a straight line, I would be raped by all the above machinery. The fact is, I learned the track more extensively than they did, the car is cheap enough that I'm prepared to push it more than they are, and the car inspires enough self-confidence that I can do all this without being remotely scared, and therefore able to concentrate on racing. It's taught me so much about driving I wouldn't know where to begin, and I can now control much more powerful cars with the same precision as I can my own.
In stark contrast, when my S13 was on the limit of adhesion, I used to become so scared I simply un-buckled my seat belt, climbed into the back seats and simple prayed to God that I wouldn't die in a horrific fireball. I even recall coming out of a roundabout in second gear, on new (but run in) Pirelli P-Zero Rosso tyres on the inside to overtake a car on the dual carriageway. My S13 pirhouetted around the 306 until I was sat 20m in front of them, in their lane, facing them. Luckily he avoided me and I wasn't killed. At that moment in time, I'd had the S13 for 7 months, I'd already been to the Nurburgring in it and done 3 trackdays in the UK, and I'd had a MK1 Toyota MR2 for 6 months previous to that.
Anyway, if you're interested in a Miata, I'll point out the differences between the models. Don't be confused by terms such as ''special edition!!!!''. Mazda made so many it's unbelievable, and the only one worth buying, the BBR, you guys didn't get. Often it as used instead of offering options. The S-Ltd, for example, had a red leather interior and only came in black. That's it.
Personally, I'd opt for a MK1. They're cheap, plentiful (so parts and spares are easy to come by), very reliable, and did I mention how cheap they are? They're also much more 'raw' to drive than the MK2. They're no faster, but they do feel more fun.
1989/90 - Mazda introduced the 1600cc MK1. The entire car is based on the Lotus Elan S1 chassis, and the engine puts out around 120bhp. In the UK at least, Mazda used a short-nose crank which in a decade would turn out to be problematic, though Eunos models never suffered. This is worth checking if you're in the US, as I'm unsure if they suffered too.
1990/91 - Mazda fit a long-nose crank instead, realising they may have made a potential future cock up, which proves very reliable.
1992/3 - Mazda introduce a 1.8L variant, with 130bhp, bigger brakes, extra chassis bracing and the optional extra of a Torsen LSD.
1994 - Nobodys buying the 1.8s, as far as people can see the extra money isn't justifiable for an extra 10bhp. Rightly so, though the 1.8Ls have an extra 10bhp, they have a lower final drive in the gearbox, meaning their performance is exactly the same. Mazda therefore drop the power of the 1.6s to 90bhp in order to sell more 1.8s.
Essentially, the cars really are bulletproof. The block is taken from the Mazda 323 GTX/R, which was a turbocharged engine in the first place. Essentially, this means all you need to add FI to the car is: Attach an oil return feed, a turbocharger (TD04 or T25), and a suitable exhaust manifold, and at 5PSI you'll have 160bhp without touching the injectors, ECU or fuel pump. Throw on some larger injectors from the MK2.5 (230cc) and increase the boost pressure to 7PSI, and you can easily hit 180bhp. Add a Link/Emerald/E-Manage and a larger fuel pump, plus Supra injectors (270cc) and you can easily be seeing 200-240bhp depending on the map, and if you buy used, you can do all this for less than ?600.
For me, the biggest differences have come in chassis upgrades, and I've temporarily abandoned the want of a turbo/supercharger because of how I've out-performed FI cars on more technical courses. Toyo R888s add ''50bhp'' in real world terms. That's not to say you can dyno the car and have gained an extra 50bhp. But, for fast driving, this one simple modification gave the same effect as an increase in 50bhp would have done, as confirmed by our clubs resident track racer who ran R888s while his supercharger was being fixed. Then, a decent set of springs/shockers (whether they're adjustable or not), and a Roll cage meant my car was cornering ridiculously well for a hairdressers car.
When buying one, check the sills for damage, and usual areas for rust. Some engines suffer from 'HLA clatter', this is nothing to worry about, and is just the cars way of telling you that the engine is due an oil change. It sounds very similar to 'timing rattle' or VVTi clatter, or tappets, but isn't.
I could go on and on, and would happily if you need the advice. To summise, if you're concerned about the image you'll portray to people, like some obviously are in this thread (though to throw stones in glass houses, a Legacy Wagon? ), then don't buy either. At 16, I doubt you have the chest hair or a medallion large enough to get away with driving a 300ZX. If you're after a serious performance car out of the box, buy the 300ZX and watch your money disappear in repair bills. If you're after some cheap, no thrills fun with the potential to hurt fast cars where it matters - on track, then buy a Miata.
BMW 325 (E46) - 16.9 @ 82mph, 0-60 8.5 secs
BMW Z4 2.0L ('05) - 17.2 @ 79mph, 0-60 8.7secs
Lexus IS200 Sport - 17.4 @ 79mph, 0-60 9.05secs
Mercedes SLK200 - 17.1 @ 80mph, 0-60 8.7secs
Porsche 944 - 16.2 @ 84mph, 0-60 7.8secs
Alfa Romeo Brera - 16.6 @ 85mph, 0-60 8.25secs
Audi TT 150 - 17.5 @ 80mph, 0-60 9.06secs
Citroen Saxo VTS - 16.6 @ 83mph, 0-60 8.14secs
Now, as I said, none of these cars are what you might call 'fast' in a straight line. But to call them slow and/or underpowered is unfair. The Miata certainly never feels underpowered, and with the cars weighing in at around the tonne mark, ~120bhp is ample enough to propel the car in any given direction.
Besides, I came to this car after owning a Stage 2 Nissan 200SX RS13, which ran consistently mid/low 13 second quarter mile passes. On the Nurburgring, my BTG time dropped by over 3 minutes in my Miata. Now, my Miata is modified, though is still N/A, and power-wise is near enough stock. If I were to start again with my car and not have the trial/error period of buying parts that weren't much good to me, I could buy and build the same car for less than ?1500. On track, in it's current spec (without the cut-slicks) I've had the pleasure of 'beating' all kinds of exotic machinery, from 500bhp Evos and bike-engined single seaters in the UK round Croft, to 997 Porsche 911 GT2s, Ferrari F430 Scuderias and GSXR1000 bikes round the Nurburgring in Germany.
The point is, there's so much more to driving fast than having power. In a straight line, I would be raped by all the above machinery. The fact is, I learned the track more extensively than they did, the car is cheap enough that I'm prepared to push it more than they are, and the car inspires enough self-confidence that I can do all this without being remotely scared, and therefore able to concentrate on racing. It's taught me so much about driving I wouldn't know where to begin, and I can now control much more powerful cars with the same precision as I can my own.
In stark contrast, when my S13 was on the limit of adhesion, I used to become so scared I simply un-buckled my seat belt, climbed into the back seats and simple prayed to God that I wouldn't die in a horrific fireball. I even recall coming out of a roundabout in second gear, on new (but run in) Pirelli P-Zero Rosso tyres on the inside to overtake a car on the dual carriageway. My S13 pirhouetted around the 306 until I was sat 20m in front of them, in their lane, facing them. Luckily he avoided me and I wasn't killed. At that moment in time, I'd had the S13 for 7 months, I'd already been to the Nurburgring in it and done 3 trackdays in the UK, and I'd had a MK1 Toyota MR2 for 6 months previous to that.
Anyway, if you're interested in a Miata, I'll point out the differences between the models. Don't be confused by terms such as ''special edition!!!!''. Mazda made so many it's unbelievable, and the only one worth buying, the BBR, you guys didn't get. Often it as used instead of offering options. The S-Ltd, for example, had a red leather interior and only came in black. That's it.
Personally, I'd opt for a MK1. They're cheap, plentiful (so parts and spares are easy to come by), very reliable, and did I mention how cheap they are? They're also much more 'raw' to drive than the MK2. They're no faster, but they do feel more fun.
1989/90 - Mazda introduced the 1600cc MK1. The entire car is based on the Lotus Elan S1 chassis, and the engine puts out around 120bhp. In the UK at least, Mazda used a short-nose crank which in a decade would turn out to be problematic, though Eunos models never suffered. This is worth checking if you're in the US, as I'm unsure if they suffered too.
1990/91 - Mazda fit a long-nose crank instead, realising they may have made a potential future cock up, which proves very reliable.
1992/3 - Mazda introduce a 1.8L variant, with 130bhp, bigger brakes, extra chassis bracing and the optional extra of a Torsen LSD.
1994 - Nobodys buying the 1.8s, as far as people can see the extra money isn't justifiable for an extra 10bhp. Rightly so, though the 1.8Ls have an extra 10bhp, they have a lower final drive in the gearbox, meaning their performance is exactly the same. Mazda therefore drop the power of the 1.6s to 90bhp in order to sell more 1.8s.
Essentially, the cars really are bulletproof. The block is taken from the Mazda 323 GTX/R, which was a turbocharged engine in the first place. Essentially, this means all you need to add FI to the car is: Attach an oil return feed, a turbocharger (TD04 or T25), and a suitable exhaust manifold, and at 5PSI you'll have 160bhp without touching the injectors, ECU or fuel pump. Throw on some larger injectors from the MK2.5 (230cc) and increase the boost pressure to 7PSI, and you can easily hit 180bhp. Add a Link/Emerald/E-Manage and a larger fuel pump, plus Supra injectors (270cc) and you can easily be seeing 200-240bhp depending on the map, and if you buy used, you can do all this for less than ?600.
For me, the biggest differences have come in chassis upgrades, and I've temporarily abandoned the want of a turbo/supercharger because of how I've out-performed FI cars on more technical courses. Toyo R888s add ''50bhp'' in real world terms. That's not to say you can dyno the car and have gained an extra 50bhp. But, for fast driving, this one simple modification gave the same effect as an increase in 50bhp would have done, as confirmed by our clubs resident track racer who ran R888s while his supercharger was being fixed. Then, a decent set of springs/shockers (whether they're adjustable or not), and a Roll cage meant my car was cornering ridiculously well for a hairdressers car.
When buying one, check the sills for damage, and usual areas for rust. Some engines suffer from 'HLA clatter', this is nothing to worry about, and is just the cars way of telling you that the engine is due an oil change. It sounds very similar to 'timing rattle' or VVTi clatter, or tappets, but isn't.
I could go on and on, and would happily if you need the advice. To summise, if you're concerned about the image you'll portray to people, like some obviously are in this thread (though to throw stones in glass houses, a Legacy Wagon?
), then don't buy either. At 16, I doubt you have the chest hair or a medallion large enough to get away with driving a 300ZX. If you're after a serious performance car out of the box, buy the 300ZX and watch your money disappear in repair bills. If you're after some cheap, no thrills fun with the potential to hurt fast cars where it matters - on track, then buy a Miata.
Last edited:
Steve Levin
Master of Disaster
I have to agree with jayhawk here...the number of unabused TT's is asymptotic to zero. Not that they weren't higher maintenance to start with. And did the previous owner keep it up? (not likely). Unless you are buying the Nissan from the original or VERY long term owner who has a stack of service invoices for it... yikes.
Miatas are a lot more bulletproof.
Steve
The_Finn
Well-Known Member
Yes we have the issues with the short nose crank in the US
tigger
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I hate you. I pay more than that for liability. Then again, my car is a liability to everything else on the road :lol:.
But it is much, much more forgiving than the turbo 300ZX. Which could mean the difference between a little curb rash on the rims and spinning backwards into a pole.
I've never had the pleasure of driving a TT 300ZX, but I've driven other smallish coupes with 300+hp. Combine a short wheelbase with lots of torque and you've got a very unforgiving vehicle.