Do Your Part, Help Save The Big 3

[chaos386]

Well, I'm not entirely sure if you guys get the same cars as us. I know the Euro-Accord is 10x better then the fugly thing we're stuck with.

No, we get the same Camry and Accord that you do. I just don't think the Camry looks ugly (a bit bland, maybe, but it's a family car, so I don't lose too much sleep over it), and the Accord looks a lot nicer in person than it does in photos, IMHO.

I'm not saying you have to like how they look, of course, just that there are obviously people out there who do.

 

[tone76]

GM and Ford should just outsource their manufacturing to their overseas divisions that actually do a half-decent job of screwing cars together. There's a reason why Ford of Europe, Holden, Opel etc are actually doing OK - they build cars that aren't total shit. Shut down all the UAW plants and then stand back and bring the popcorn (and a spare 9mm) when we all watch the last bits of Detroit FINALLY implode on itself after a slow and painful death.

As for the special US-only cars (i.e. pickup trucks etc), maybe Ford and GM could throw Chrysler a bone and buy rebadged Dodge RAMs or something. Neither Ford nor GM NEED to make cars in the US as they have more than enough talent that can be imported, whereas Chrysler doesn't have that luxury anymore that I'm aware of.

 

[chaos386]

^Except that UAW agreements prevent them from doing ANY of the above.

 

[TC]

The old Honda Civic's circa MCMLXXXVII were as bulletproof as they were because there were only nine moving parts to them.

Yep, that's what I love about my Toyota.

I sort of agree with you on the quality issue, newer Hondas have been having issues with the paint. Even the new ones are bad, the paint started peeling off the bumper of my mum's new Accord.

Their warranty service was good, they acknowledged it was a cock up and fixed it for free. Something GM is exactly well known for.. :lol:

I had a Pontiac Grand Prix for a while, but the catalytic converter went out and I almost had to pay for it out of pocket because apparently when you own a car for under 2 years and put 50k miles on it, and never get any scheduled service done on it, they can revoke your warranty. :lol: But the dealer said if I got the 60k mile service done, GM would honor the warranty. And they did. That was my only experience with GM warranty service.

No, we get the same Camry and Accord that you do. I just don't think the Camry looks ugly (a bit bland, maybe, but it's a family car, so I don't lose too much sleep over it), and the Accord looks a lot nicer in person than it does in photos, IMHO.

I'm not saying you have to like how they look, of course, just that there are obviously people out there who do.

I really liked the last few generations of the Accord and Camry. But these latest ones are much worse looking, imo.

The new Camry isn't too bad. But I don't like how the front end was designed around the Toyota badge. That kinda pisses me off the more I think about it.

 

[Spectre]

I sort of agree with you on the quality issue, newer Hondas have been having issues with the paint. Even the new ones are bad, the paint started peeling off the bumper of my mum's new Accord.

Everyone's paint is starting to suck more and more - it has to do with the ever-tightening regulations on paint. GM's paint is still terrible at times, though.

I really liked the last few generations of the Accord and Camry. But these latest ones are much worse looking, imo.

The new Camry isn't too bad. But I don't like how the front end was designed around the Toyota badge. That kinda pisses me off the more I think about it.

Blame the Euros for the tall hoods, they're the ones that mandated that new truck-like front end on cars.

 

[Das_Idiot]

Bought a GTI.

compared that with an Astra and a Focus and all that, but honestly, they have nothing that compares to anything I was looking at. Honestly, I do not care, as a car lover, if those three just go in the tank. They did it to themselves with too many brands and not enough/any differentiation between their product mix. And they over-exerted themselves in certain areas and completely ignored other segments.

And their interiors almost universally suck balls.


And (yes, another sentence started with And), the new Malibu that was supposed to rock everyones socks, is garbage. I was stuck with one for a month and it was just god awful. AWFUL! I could waste my time and make a list of the reasons, but honestly it's not even worth that much trouble. It's just appalling. Soulless.

 

[argatoga]

Soulless.

Can you define this? I don't mind people saying they don't like a car, but soulless is a cop out. It is a fancier way of saying "I just don't like it".

 

[BlaRo]

And (yes, another sentence started with And), the new Malibu that was supposed to rock everyones socks, is garbage. I was stuck with one for a month and it was just god awful. AWFUL! I could waste my time and make a list of the reasons, but honestly it's not even worth that much trouble. It's just appalling. Soulless.

Because we know the Accord and Camry are only bought up because of how passionate they are. In fact, Alfa Romeo engineers frequently look upon them as a source of motoring inspiration.

If you have your other reasons for hating on the Malibu, that's fine. But to accuse a midsize family sedan of not having any soul is fairly ridiculous.

 

[Dogbert]

If you have your other reasons for hating on the Malibu, that's fine. But to accuse a midsize family sedan of not having any soul is fairly ridiculous.

The people who buy family sedan's often have their unfortunate souls drained by the aforementioned family, so in a way, it's building to their target market. :lol:

 

[Das_Idiot]

Because we know the Accord and Camry are only bought up because of how passionate they are. In fact, Alfa Romeo engineers frequently look upon them as a source of motoring inspiration.

If you have your other reasons for hating on the Malibu, that's fine. But to accuse a midsize family sedan of not having any soul is fairly ridiculous.

I didn't say I'd find either more satisfying now did I? I just said the Malibu is rubbish, which it is.

for what it's worth, I drove my mother to some shops in it one time, she hated it nearly as much as I do. She owned two camrys and currently a Lexus ES 330 and loves/loved them all.

and yes, I have many other reasons for hating the Malibu, I stated just that in the initial post. The soulless part is completely unrelated to how horrid it is. I'm driving an absolutely HORRID car right now and it has far more of a soul than the Malibu (an '00 or '01 Chevy Lumina) and it's the epitome of crap car, though mostly because of its condition. I still far prefer driving it than the Malibu.

I'd really just like my GTI back though lol

 

[Wizegui]

Well since I drive a fairly small car, I'dd do a comparision between the latest Toyota Yaris and Chevrolet Aveo

For the Aveo:
- Price: The Aveo starts at $13,770 vs. The 5 door Yaris' $14,360. Theres a lot of discounts available too, which should help ease the pain of buying Kor...I mean American
- More standard features

Against the Aveo
- It's built even worse than the Yaris, which is a big surprise
- The engine has the power of a subcompact, and the economy of a compact (not terribly economical, which is what these cars are about. Things could be different though if they fitted it with an Ecotec engine in it)
- Terrible depreciation
- Mediocre reliability
- Unrefined nature of the car

In all, in terms of a small car (which is most likely what I am going to buy when I have the money), I find it hard to justify an Aveo, unless if you don't really have the money but still want a new car. Think pickup trucks or fullsize SUVs, and it'll be a whole different story.

 

[Spectre]

In all, in terms of a small car (which is most likely what I am going to buy when I have the money), I find it hard to justify an Aveo, unless if you don't really have the money but still want a new car. Think pickup trucks or fullsize SUVs, and it'll be a whole different story.

It's even harder to justify the Aveo when you realize that the Nissan Versa now starts at $9995.

 

[AltimaXX]

My car at the moment is a Honda/Acura Integra...which in it's time would have competed with, I suppose, the Chevy Cavalier, Dodge Neon 2-door, and...Ford Probe/Escort ZX2. The Cavalier is atrocious, in looks, handling, ride, engine, everything. The Neon, while the ACR versions are quite interesting, is just as bad. I owned a Probe GT, and loved the car dearly, but...you can see how that comparison won out. Were I choosing between the two new, I would choose the Probe GT, but used, hell no. No dealer carries parts, it's terribly unreliable, there's no aftermarket support (a major factor in car-buying decisions for me) and of course the universal complaint, the interior was falling apart. Literally. Things fell off as you drove down the road.
Buying new right now, on my budget, I would look at-
Mazdaspeed3
VW GTI
Chevy Cobalt SS
Honda Civic Si Sedan
Mazda MX5/Miata

As far as the Miata goes, I love pure sports cars, but I probably wouldn't want the impracticality of the Miata, so it's pretty much out. It's alternative from the big 3 would be the Solstice/Sky pair, and while I like the Sky, I don't like it that much. I think the Solstice is atrociously ugly...so...that's very, very much out.
I love hot hatches, so in the end I'd probably buy a Mazdaspeed3 or VW GTI. I've driven both and liked them a lot...I've also driven the Civic Si, and didn't particularly care for it. The domestic alternative is, of course, the much-hyped new Cobalt SS. Frankly, I'd have to drive it back to back with the Mazdaspeed3 and GTI to decide...how a car feels is most important to me, not lap times or statistics.

I'd probably buy an Integra Type-R or a Honda S2000 before I'd buy any of the above, though.

 

[Wizegui]

It's even harder to justify the Aveo when you realize that the Nissan Versa now starts at $9995.

It's still slightly more expensive than the states at $13,598, but its still a few hundred dollars cheaper than the cheap-but-not-so-cheerful Aveo. And yet, I still see so many of them poking around town...

 

[teeb]

Blame the Euros for the tall hoods, they're the ones that mandated that new truck-like front end on cars.

For pedestrian safety reasons.

Sure, in an ideal world pedestrians are clever enough to not walk in front of cars, but it's not an ideal world. And sure, some of the current designs due to it are mega-ugly. But there're ways around the tall bonnets - look at the pop-up bonnet on the Jag XF and a Citroen (the C6?).