Diesel Question

Jon'sIS

Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2008
Messages
20
Location
FL/GA
Car(s)
IS250
Considering the last episode of TG, how large is the gap between Gas(Petrol) and diesel in Europe and the rest of the world for that matter? Reason I'm asking is that in the states there is a large gap between Gas and Diesel, so much so that its not really economical as of yet to buy a diesel just based on economic reasons.
 
in holland it is about 15 cents (?) cheaper per litre then unleaded 95 if i'm not mistaken, so about ?6,75 saved on a 45 litre fillup.
 
I don't know what the prices are like in Florida, but here it's definitely an economical choice to get a diesel. Diesel fuel normally costs 10-15% more than mid-grade gasoline, and most diesels get much more than 15% better fuel economy than a comparable gasoline car. Right now cheap gas is $1.75 (I never thought I'd type that again!) and diesel is around $2.00 a gallon.
 
Also remember that the English gallon is larger than the American gallon by about 20% (edit: 20.1%, actually) if I remember correctly. That makes a 74mpg Polo in England a 59.2 mpg Polo, here in the states. It makes a 50mpg Subaru a 40mpg Subaru, and a 36mpg Jag into a 28.8 mpg jag.
 
Last edited:
Diesel fuel normally costs 10-15% more than mid-grade gasoline
In Germany Diesel fuel is taxed less than gasoline (56 vs. 78 ct/litre) so Diesel is normally less expensive, at the moment it's marginally cheaper (? 1.08/litre vs. ? 1.11/litre for 95 octane).
Some time ago we had a higher gap (about 10 ct/litre) but once or twice Diesel was more expensive which was horrid for Diesel-drivers since most of them think when they fill up cheaper the car is cheaper to run altogether.

The most important thing here is how much a Diesel powered vehicle uses less than a comparable gasoline powered car and how much you drive a year since Diesel powered vehicles pay more vehicle excise duty.

If you drive not much then a Diesel isn't more economical since you have the fixed costs of the vehicle excise duty, but if you drive very much the Diesel costs less since the fixed costs are less pro-rata than the fuel costs.
 
Also remember that the English gallon is larger than the American gallon by about 20% (edit: 20.1%, actually) if I remember correctly. That makes a 74mpg Polo in England a 59.2 mpg Polo, here in the states. It makes a 50mpg Subaru a 40mpg Subaru, and a 36mpg Jag into a 28.8 mpg jag.

Really?? I had no idea...
 
I don't know what the prices are like in Florida, but here it's definitely an economical choice to get a diesel. Diesel fuel normally costs 10-15% more than mid-grade gasoline, and most diesels get much more than 15% better fuel economy than a comparable gasoline car. Right now cheap gas is $1.75 (I never thought I'd type that again!) and diesel is around $2.00 a gallon.

In St. Louis, diesel is currently running almost 50% more than regular unleaded ($1.57/reg v $2.49/diesel).
 
Question is: since diesel isn't more difficult to produce than petrol, why is it so much more expensive in the US?
 
In St. Louis, diesel is currently running almost 50% more than regular unleaded ($1.57/reg v $2.49/diesel).

:shock::shock::shock:

Honestly, I'm staggered. Why do some parts of the US have this behaviour towards diesel? It's shocking that it's a lot more expensive than petrol...
 
I've seen a petrol station where diesel was already more expensive than petrol by about 12 eurocents here. The prices of petrol keep dropping, but the prices of diesel not so much. Buying a diesel car seems to have lost its economic sense here, especially as diesel cars are often like 2k euro more expensive than a petrol powered equivalent. Still, the advantage of diesels is that the fuel consuption doesn't increase too dramatically when driven flat out on the motorway.
 
Really?? I had no idea...

A British gallon is four "imperial" quarts of 40 ounce each for a total of 160 ounces. A US gallon contains four US quarts of 32 ounces each, for a total of 128 ounces.
 
The British gallon is part of the Imperial system and lots of stuff differs, even when the same name is used. The metric system good idea, spoiled by being invented by the French.
 
Question is: since diesel isn't more difficult to produce than petrol, why is it so much more expensive in the US?

Wonder if US petroleum cracking is geared towards higher gasoline percentage than ours? If so that could be an explanation, although energy pricing in general doesn't seem to follow any logic.
 
Our crap MK1 diesel is 11:49/l (1.45 USD/l) while petrol is 10:34/l (1.30 USD/l). While I prefer it the way it were up until a year ago, when diesel was cheaper, I am glad that the difference isnt higher. What really annoys me is the insane tax on diesel cars. If the situation does not change, I will change to petrol next time. I could drive a BMW with a V8 and still pay less in taxes.

Also I really want the EU to abolish the MK1 diesel. It serves one purpouse, to make more money for the goverment. It produces more CO2, it contains less energy and it is more expensive than european diesel. It's indigenous to Sweden and is produced by a single company. Free market, whats that?
 
Last edited:
Question is: since diesel isn't more difficult to produce than petrol, why is it so much more expensive in the US?

Economies of scale.

Very few cars in the US are diesel, so it becomes almost a special fuel; unleaded is used in the vast majority of the cars, so competition between companies has lead to extreme cost cutting and super low prices.
 
diesel cars are about $2000-$3000 more to buy than a petrol car here and the actual diesel is anywhere from 20c to 40c more. So in other words a long time to recoup your money.
 
Question is: since diesel isn't more difficult to produce than petrol, why is it so much more expensive in the US?

Tax, pure and simple - just the opposite of how it is in Europe. Here's the logic (which I don't agree with): Since the vast majority of diesel using vehicles are large heavy vehicles used in commercial enterprise, and increasing the registration and road use fees is unpalatable to the owners, a higher tax is placed upon diesel. Those revenues are *supposed* to go into the road fund to offset the damage those heavy vehicles do to the roads and environment.

We *know* it is tax making up the difference because diesel intended for farm use (i.e., use in tractors, combines, etc., etc.) is identical in formulation aside from a red (or other color) dye being added to show that it is "agri-diesel" and therefore illegal to use in a non-farm road diesel, and it costs about half what "regular" diesel does because by law it is untaxed.
 
Considering the last episode of TG, how large is the gap between Gas(Petrol) and diesel in Europe and the rest of the world for that matter? Reason I'm asking is that in the states there is a large gap between Gas and Diesel, so much so that its not really economical as of yet to buy a diesel just based on economic reasons.

Around here diesel is about 105p a litre and petrol about 90p. I'll double check tomorrow.

So yes, diesel is slightly more expensive, and diesel cars tend to have a small price hike over petrol cars. Basically you need to sit down and do some maths to work out whether buying diesel would work out better for you.

It basically comes down to the number of miles per year you do, and how long you plan to have the car.
 
Around here diesel is about 105p a litre and petrol about 90p. I'll double check tomorrow.

So yes, diesel is slightly more expensive, and diesel cars tend to have a small price hike over petrol cars.
Basically you need to sit down and do some maths to work out whether buying diesel would work out better for you.

It basically comes down to the number of miles per year you do, and how long you plan to have the car.

In the US at least, the difference in the price of the car itself is quite a bit. I know in the case of the new 3-series diesel, the 335i actually starts a few grand less than the diesel version. I don't know why you would shell out almost $10K USD more than the 328i just to maybe break even many many years later.
 
there is a number of factors you have to look at: 1) how many miles per year you drive 2) the cost of petrol vs diesel 3) purchase price 4) residual value for petrol/diesel car 5) how fast you like to drive (IMO).

So yes, diesels are more expensive to buy, but they keep much better as second hand car. Also considering you drive like 15,000-20,000 miles a year and with the diesel being more expensive, it can take 3-4 years before you get the value back in fuel savings..

Over here, diesel has been more expensive than petrol for over a year now, because most of new cars are sold with diesel engines anyway.

But the appeal of diesel is obvious. Take a regular BMW 320d for instance, it's got 177 HP, I'd say it is surprisingly quick and nice to drive, and does 57 MPG, so even if you do a 100 MPH on the motorway it doesn't do less than some 45 MPG.
 
Top