At least they circled the problem
I have to admit even I am getting a bit irritated by your constant Union bashing and using every possible chance to bash 'em. I'm starting to wonder if you think that the day the UAW dies is the day world peace happens, money and food problems go away, and monkeys fly out of from underneath Kajun's skirt.
No, I don't believe that. On the other hand, they deserve anything they can catch. Speaking of which, have you seen their latest ad, set to air on national TV? I found it supremely irritating, smug, and arrogant - but it's a real UAW ad!
[youtube]lJc6yo1wjSg[/youtube]
"Our jobs are more important than yours."
Propaganda Filter Exercise: Count the number of blatant lies in that 30 second spot.
(Thanks to
http://hotair.com/archives/2008/12/...-out-of-work-are-you/comment-page-3/#comments for spotting this - check out the comments there.)
The only catch is, and I'm sure anyone reading this has seen it already: Who takes Wagoner's job? That, I don't know. Discuss!
Wagonner should be fired - if for not other reason than ramrodding the Aztek project through GM. Yes, it was *his* baby.
I don't know who should take over from him. There's nobody in house except maybe Bob Eaton, and while he's a car guy we know his business acumen is more than a bit suspect - selling out a successful Chrysler to Mercedes, anyone?
The only thing that could save GM would be selling cars - lots of them - from today on. That's the primary issue, everything else is secondary. Solving the secondary problems still won't solve the primary problem: Selling cars.
Unless that happens, they are doomed. Not matter if they get 5 billion dollars or 50 billion.
Agreed. It wouldn't matter if they got 500 billion, either - they'd just continue business as usual. Failure should *not* be rewarded.
Okay, and how do they do that. If they could sell cars, they wouldn't be in trouble in the first place.
GM (and the other Big Three) spent literally decades building up ill will against themselves. Between idiot management and product decisions, the UAW halfassedly building cars and the dealers' poor customer service running the customers off, they always managed to find new and interesting ways to screw the customer without regard to the consequences.
It must be said that much of the American public bears some responsibility in enabling this for so long, just like the Brits bear resonsibility for enabling British Leyland.
This money they want, is it a loan? How are they going to pay it back?
Or is it in exchange for equity and if it is then surely all three companies who are supposed to be competing will be owned (partially) by the same beneficial owner - the US Tax payer.
They say this is a loan (see below, this is just until they can get the BIG bailout package), but it's about as much a loan as a loan to a druggie relative would be - you'll never see that money again, ever.
This differs from the prior Chrysler bailout because all Chrysler wanted was loan guarantees - *and* they had UAW concessions plus a comprehensive plan in their hands before they *ever* went before Congress.
$15 billion divvied up to every US citizen works out at $49 per head, roughly. Forgive me if I don't see that fixing the economy.
As for the bailout, this one's just to last the Big 3 'til the next administration is in. Pretty much, the government decided "Nah, we won't decide either way, we'll just decide not to decide for another 3 months".
edit - I'd love to see Spectre's 11 point plan for GM happen, but I doubt the execs have the common sense to do it
Thanks for the compliment. The plan is actually up to 12 steps but the 12th step involves winnowing management and I'm still trying to figure out how *that* would work.
Yes, this one is just to "tide them over" until "THE ONE" (aka Obama - yes, that's what Obama supporters often call him, with religious fervor) can get into office along with the newly elected Democrat supermajority and they can get the "real" bailout package, which is starting to look like it will be at least
$100 billion. I suspect the eventual cost will probably end up being about $300 billion, personally.
Since there are about 300 million people in the US, why don't you do the math and tell me how much every person would get.
Then do the math assuming that 150 million are under 18, non-citizens, or otherwise disqualified from receiving a personal bailout.
But then you would have a huge outcry of "But the jobs!". Because GM has developed such a bloated and vast employment network, the sheer number of people that would suddenly have to become unemployed for General Motors to survive is staggering.
I still do not see how they can keep three car companies going. Oh well, let us hope that they learn from our (BL) mistake!
No, they won't. The Democratic Congress is too stupid to realize it - or much care. I recently spoke to a Democrat US Representative (i.e., a Democrat member of the House Of Representatives) from a district near mine; he believed that GM should become a government owned entity and be a jobs program. I pointed out BL, he had never heard of it and when I tried to explain it to him he dismissed it as "irrelevant."
Sorry, but I can't understand how it could
hurt Ford financially that one of it's
competitors goes belly up
Could someone please explain?
That's mainly directed at GM, but Mulally is being polite. If the supply network that they all use, even Toyota and Honda et al, were to suddenly have it's largest customer suddenly stop pumping money into them, then the results would be mildly disastrous.
Basically, what it's coming down to is that a huge chunk of the American economy rests solely and appallingly with General Motors.
I think that they're seriously overstating the effects that the economy would suffer if they tanked. GM isn't paying their supplier bills *now*, so how would it be different if they went Chapter 7? Most suppliers have switched over from being dedicated Big Three suppliers to supplying the "import" marque plants here in the US as well, or in some cases, only. The ones that didn't switch are either too stupid or can't produce high enough quality product to be accepted.
Here's a number to put this into perspective. If you add up all the US auto industry, including ALL the suppliers and take that sum out of the US GDP, how much of a percentage do you think you'd lose?
Four percent. The *entire* auto sector in the US, if it went away tomorrow, would only take four percent out of the US GDP.
And that's why they are doomed (not sure if Ford can make it, if the others go bust).
Ford is the only one to come out with an even vaguely viable plan, and they're the only one of the Three to be able to point to world-class products (specifically, the high-fuel efficiency cars that the ruling Dems so desire) in other markets and say that they're going to import them right away - and mean it.
So every attempt to save them with money, is in vain. And what's currently happening is just political smoke throwing for the stupid masses who still believe it is possible to save the "Big Three". Some headlines called those 15 billion dollars a "rescue package". I almost fell from my chair laughing. Ridiculous choice of words!
It's all spin. No more, no less. They're trying to sell it to an unwilling (6 or 7 out of 10 polled oppose or strongly oppose any bailout of the auto industry) populace.
You may not know why they're doing this, though. The unions spent
FOUR HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS to get Obama elected, and an unknown sum on getting more Democrats into Congress. What you're looking at is the unions demanding they get what they paid for.
Of course, the point that they should have spent the four hundred million reforming themselves is completely lost on the unions. If, as some believe, the unions' political expenditures from this last elections topped $1B, they would have spent over half of the outright purchase price of GM.
The American economy is currently in a downward spiral and it's pulling the rest of the world with it. The bottom is still not in sight. I say the crisis will at least last during the next year, if not the next two years and I agree with Clarkson in that radio interview, that we haven't even seen the start of it.
Well, Europe is not blameless for the current problems, either in the financial or automotive sectors. But yes, the American economy's problems are causing *huge* ripple effects around the world.
I wouldn't worry about some car manufacturers. I would start worrying about your own family and how it will go through this crisis. Because sooner or later, everyone will be effected.
The only reason I comment on this stuff at all is because I'm reasonably certain that my family and I are well set to make it through. I have made sure I have multiple saleable skill sets and keep them up to date; I also have made arrangements for my own financial and personal security. Otherwise, I'd stop running my mouth and start frantically planning how to get through the next few years.
