Jeremy Clarkson against auto industry bailout

honestly, i dont understand the surprise here. clarkson hasnt exactly shown much in the way of social-leaning views. and just about anyone who believes in a capitalist system would want a business to go bust if they just cant make it on their own.

not to mention, the american airline industry went through alot of chapter 11's not too long ago, and they're starting to [finally] rebound. (i.e. people didnt just totally stop flying cause of the bankruptcy).

but, from what business news sources are reporting, the "big 3" will be getting their tax-money hand out.
 
A lot of people aren't aware of the various airline companies filing bankruptcy. Plus most people don't fly on a regular basis. I may be wrong, but I would think that people would be much more concerned about buying a car from a company that filed bankruptcy.
 
On principal I would be against the bail out of the US auto industry too, except about a quarter of american jobs are directly related to the industry.

The papermill located in my area employed about a fifth of the area people and I saw what happened when that closed. Yeah, it is getting ok now and the papermill is just a memory, but it took 10 years. I can not imagine if 25 % of the american people were suddenly out of a job.

As for the airlines, we had 3 go out of business on one day. No advance notice. People were stranded everywhere. I had friends stranded in Hawaii after a cruise. Took them almost 2 weeks to get home.
 
Sure the airlines were in trouble after Sept 11, but not all of the airlines were looking at failing and more airlines exist than car companies - meaning we were not looking at the implosion of an entire industry.

In the 70's Chrysler begged for money from the US Govt and thanks to Lee Iacocca the company paid the money back in record time, making a complete turnaround. The auto manufacturing industry is vital to the US and as skylock points out 25% of the US depends on them in some way. If we let them fail and add their losses to the recent downturn the US will go into a major depression. But the failure of the US auto industry will be felt globally as the supplliers, manufacturing, dealerships, etc in other countries will also go under - making the US depression a global depression.

The US needs to support the auto industry but the executives also need clear plans and need to act like captains of industry rather than ham-handed idiots. Anyone watching the hearings would see the CEO's of Ford, GM, & Chrysler looking just cartoonishly ignorant of what is going on in their own house.

On another note Obama is from Illinios and no way he lets his power base in the midwest down by inaction. So, the auto companies will get the cash I think.
 
Dogbert said:
Hey!

http://forums.finalgear.com/automotive-news/big-threes-restructuring-plans-32239/page-3/
http://forums.finalgear.com/automot...the-time-as-a-passenger-nagging-driver-32301/
http://forums.finalgear.com/automotive-news/us-auto-sales-hit-new-lows-gm-sales-plunge-41-pct-32250/
http://forums.finalgear.com/automot...fly-private-jets-to-dc-to-bag-for-cash-31944/
http://forums.finalgear.com/automotive-news/autoblog-opinion-peice-a-look-at-the-uaw-31988/

:whistle:
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Thanks Dogbert! It's good that a few of those articles aren't down on Unions, as they are trying to see that their workers have healthcare benefits and coverage, and a fair wage. I was a member of a union for almost 6 years, and they did a lot for me. I really think that workers would never unionize if companies treated them fairly.
 
When I was in the UK my company gave me a Ford Mondeo to drive and I swear that Mondeo was way better than any Ford I drove in the states. For one thing you could take a corner at speed without fear of sliding off the road. There were plenty of 'B' roads near where I lived and it was a blast to rocket down those things. You could also get the Mondeo above 80 mph and NOT feel like you were in the Klingon Bird of Prey Kirk used to time travel in ST4. The car was solid. I was driving to London on the M1 and a BMW blasted past me (I was doing 80) and I pushed the car to 105 before looking at the speedo and backing off.

So, when the TG team says Mondeo is the best car I can vouch for it. What Ford needs to do then is bring that Mondeo to the US and NOT molest the car. They would be out of trouble in no time with that car and claw back precious market share from the Asian car companies.
 
Jeremy Clarkson against auto industry bailout
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So is everyone else in America. Except the Democrats in congress.

Sir Roger Moore said:
What Ford needs to do then is bring that Mondeo to the US and NOT molest the car.
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They did. It was called the Jaguar X-Type. Oh wait, you said "not molest"... :lol:
 
Jeremy Clarkson against auto industry bailout
So is everyone else in America. Except the Democrats in congress.
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Duh! that's the title of the article. Southerners.....
 
Yes...I did say leave it unmolested. One of the hallmarks of that Mondeo is that it is affordable for most people, making the X-Type out of reach. Plus that X-Type just missed the point of the original but at least Ford kept the chassis alone.
 
Mr. Nice said:
Duh! that's the title of the article. Southerners.....
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Yes, the thread was drifting a bit, and I wanted to make sure my comment was recognized as addressing the original topic.

Also, I suppose I should have left out the word "else" in my original post, as it might appear that I'm claiming Clarkson as an American. Egads!
 
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skylock said:
On principal I would be against the bail out of the US auto industry too, except about a quarter of american jobs are directly related to the industry.

The papermill located in my area employed about a fifth of the area people and I saw what happened when that closed. Yeah, it is getting ok now and the papermill is just a memory, but it took 10 years. I can not imagine if 25 % of the american people were suddenly out of a job.

As for the airlines, we had 3 go out of business on one day. No advance notice. People were stranded everywhere. I had friends stranded in Hawaii after a cruise. Took them almost 2 weeks to get home.
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and i think this is the problem that really needs to be debated.

compassion for the now, or compassion for the future. if you beleive that now is more important than what the effects may cause in the future, then by all means, give them our tax money. however, if you beleive that a minor hardship will make them even better in the future, then no, they shouldnt get our tax money.

also, our international auto industry here in the south isnt as rosy as some people may try to say. they're having to cut back production, and reduce job hours. i havent read about layoff at the factories, yet.

but really, it comes down to marketing, if the "big 3" were forced into a restructuring bankruptcy, they just need to get their marketing teams to spin it in a way that tells people "we're not going to die cause of this". and it would help people learn that bankruptcy does not always equate to "out of business".

and yes, i'm well aware people will lose jobs. and most likely people are going to lose jobs anyways even if they get our tax money. call me a naive optimist when i beleive that if people want to work, they will find a job, and they just might find something they enjoy more.
 
jeremysg said:
[..] call me a naive optimist when i believe that if people want to work, they will find a job, and they just might find something they enjoy more.
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Not necessarily. And not necessarily in this day and age, either. There's an abundance of news stories about people with 10+ years of experience in welding, engineering, and mechanical trades; and they still can't find jobs.
And here in Ontario, we've got plenty of small towns that will become desolate because their profit is mainly based off of the auto industry.

Call me a naive pessimist. :lol:
 
amandalea said:
There's an abundance of news stories about people with 10+ years of experience in welding, engineering, and mechanical trades; and they still can't find jobs.
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That's funny, I could throw a rock and hit a job in my town. I could actually probably do the same anywhere else. Jobs that people with 10+ years of experience in welding, engineering, and mechanical trades would like to take? Probably not.

Case in point: My ex's dad owned a fab shop, and my ex's mom owned a daycare. Fab shop went out of business, daycare got strongarm'd out of the plaza by the landlord... so now they're both out of a job. One is actually quite an established fabricator (works on hot rods, etc), and the other is a licensed child care professional. You know what they do now? They're janitors at the local high school. Are they happy with their jobs? No. Would they ever take that job otherwise? No. Did they have a choice? No, not if they wanted to keep eating. When you have two kids and two dogs to feed, you can find a job... it just might not be one for an "esteemed tradesman" at the moment.
 
Sir Roger Moore said:
So, when the TG team says Mondeo is the best car I can vouch for it. What Ford needs to do then is bring that Mondeo to the US and NOT molest the car. They would be out of trouble in no time with that car and claw back precious market share from the Asian car companies.
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Ford did have the Contour - very related to the Mondeo. We've owned two of them, and they were pretty good cars. Unfortunately it didn't really sell well in the US.
 
phobozad said:
Ford did have the Contour - very related to the Mondeo. We've owned two of them, and they were pretty good cars. Unfortunately it didn't really sell well in the US.
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My sister owned a Countour and the thing was plagued with electrical glitches, the handling was nowhere near the Mondeo I had and the acceleration wasn't very good. Perhaps she had a 'Monday' car, but my Ford US experience is one of utter disappointment.
 
Sir Roger Moore said:
My sister owned a Countour and the thing was plagued with electrical glitches, the handling was nowhere near the Mondeo I had and the acceleration wasn't very good. Perhaps she had a 'Monday' car, but my Ford US experience is one of utter disappointment.
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Supposedly the later model contours (98+) were much less reliable than the earlier ones (which we had). Ours also had a manual gearbox, and I can say from driving both that the automatic trans does kill the power. I agree that the handling wasn't amazing, but it was pretty good for a US car (although I like my jetta's handling better). Our windstar, on the other hand, has all sorts of electrical weirdness. Sometimes the lights on the dash are like a christmas tree (not to mention the head gasket issue). I do really wish that ford would bring the mondeo over here...otherwise chances are that I'll be buying foreign again.
 
But that is really indicative of why the US industry is in a bad way when someone says 'pretty good for a US car'. My dad has had a Jetta TDI and a Rabbit (he's a fuel econ nut), and loves the build quality of both vehicles. I drove both his cars at varying times and they were excellent - everything just seems better made, just like the UK Mondeo I had.

Now if the US auto makers could produce cars like that I do not think they would be as bad off and have to fly in a Gulfstream to DC to beg for $25 Billion.
 
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