Blogger Ecogeek doesn't approve of TopGear's report on Honda Clarity

LindenChase said:
James: [When filling up with compressed liquid hydrogen] ?You have to lock it with this lever. Terribly important, that; if you don?t do it you get hydrogen all over your shoes?

Ecogeek: Actually, it would evaporate before hitting your shoes.
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James meant it as a joke. He's smarter than that.

Also, that "lock" also engages a computer "handshake" that has to occur before fueling can begin, to prevent catastrophe.

swramen said:
did you know gasoline is dangerously explosive?
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Actually, it's not. It's flammable...but not explosive on it's own. You can throw a match into a bucket of gasoline, and if you got enough "umpf" in your toss, it'll drown itself out without ever igniting the gasoline. Also, ask any tanker truck driver which he'd rather drive: a truck full of gasoline, or one he just emptied. They will pick the full truck, every time. The fumes are very combustible...the liquid gasoline...flammable, but not explosive.

mr. nice said:
Hydrogen is safer than gasoline, as far as explosive goes.... It's still a gas though, which makes it dangerous in ways that a liquid isn't. Mostly when hydrogen meets the air, it becomes water... as you can see with the Hindenburg
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Actually, new research has indicated that the paint on the outside of the vehicle was the cause of the rapid burn of the "balloon" as it was made with an ingredient that was also used in ROCKET FUEL. The hydrogen is credited with giving the passengers a slow, controlled descent to the ground.
 
NecroJoe said:
Actually, new research has indicated that the paint on the outside of the vehicle was the cause of the rapid burn of the "balloon" as it was made with an ingredient that was also used in ROCKET FUEL. The hydrogen is credited with giving the passengers a slow, controlled descent to the ground.
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Myth busted :p

Also...
1362599_02bcdea730.jpg
 
Also, petroleum can be easily stored and transported while hydrogen? can?t. You know what can, though? Electricity!
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Lol, does he know how much power is lost in the transfer to batteries?

NecroJoe said:
Actually, new research has indicated that the paint on the outside of the vehicle was the cause of the rapid burn of the "balloon" as it was made with an ingredient that was also used in ROCKET FUEL.
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Um, apples have cyanide in them. I don't die when I eat an apple do I?
 
I see two major issues to electric cars:
1. Refill/TopUp Time: The time it takes to charge an electric car is far too long to be very practical as was shown in the TG episode. I am sure this would be addressed later on and more improvements are made every day, but still it is a ways off.

2. Electric Source: I find the eco-nazis are totally oblivious as to where the power actually comes from; usually coal fired generation facilities. If you are 'green' then this must surely not be a viable option for you. Also, when the UK is taking more power plants off the grid and not bringing more online - where would the power for the cars come from then? Other generating facilities are available like wind, solar, etc, but it becomes a supply issue - not enough electricity supply is available.

Hydrogen cars represent a very different set of challenges, but I agree with May's points on hydrogen and find it a very good replacement. BMW back in the late 90's had a fleet of 7 Series cars that ran on hydrogen or normal petrol, so maybe a hybrid of sorts would be a good work around for now.
 
Dogbert said:
Myth busted :p
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They also said you can't beat a speed camera. Contrary to popular belief, they are not infallible.

MadCat360 said:
Um, apples have cyanide in them. I don't die when I eat an apple do I?
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Also, saliva causes stomach cancer, but only when consumed in small doses over a long period of time.

Sir Roger Moore said:
2. Electric Source: I find the eco-nazis are totally oblivious as to where the power actually comes from; usually coal fired generation facilities. If you are 'green' then this must surely not be a viable option for you. Also, when the UK is taking more power plants off the grid and not bringing more online - where would the power for the cars come from then? Other generating facilities are available like wind, solar, etc, but it becomes a supply issue - not enough electricity supply is available.
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You're missing a couple points:
a) Electricity, as time passes, is getting "greener" every day. Higher and higher percentages of electricity all around the world is coming from renewable, inexhaustible, or at least cleaner sources. As more time passes, it will only get cleaner & greener.
b) Most developed countries have lots of extra capacity in off-peak hours (ie: in the evenings/night, when the vast majority of the population would do their charging.)


Question: Why is a single-source (much easier to regulate than millions of cars) of electricity any worse than the millions of cars that may not be properly tuned with fully functioning exhaust/catalytic converter systems along with all that goes into the drilling, refining, and transporting of the gasoline? If a new technology comes along that increases efficiency or reduces pollution by 2%, by installing it into one power plant, you've instantly "upgraded" every cay that it serves, rather than slowly waiting for every resident to slowly buy new cars every 5-10 years. To me, this makes sense...however, I haven't looked into it too much, so if there are published studies out there that say otherwise, I'd love a link so I can read up.
 
Baahaha - that was the funniest line of the report... and it seems to have 747ed many
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It seems rather absurd that so many people didn't understand it. It was perfectly clear he was joking. And I'm not even an english mother-tongue.
 
NecroJoe said:
They also said you can't beat a speed camera. Contrary to popular belief, they are not infallible.
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I know they aren't. In their defense, though, they said you can't beat an American speed camera. You guys need two pictures, we only need one.

You make a good point about the "single source of power", and it totally makes sense. I'm hardly a scientist, but it seems like it would be easier to regulate and upgrade electric power plants instead of relying on oil rigs/refineries/everything else that goes into the gasoline making process. Also, electric cars are opening up the possibility of "selling back" their electricity onto the grid, too.
 
Sir Roger Moore said:
Hydrogen cars represent a very different set of challenges, but I agree with May's points on hydrogen and find it a very good replacement. BMW back in the late 90's had a fleet of 7 Series cars that ran on hydrogen or normal petrol, so maybe a hybrid of sorts would be a good work around for now.
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What do you mean in the late 90's?
Hydrogen combustion is still on. BMW Hydrogen 7 is based on the long wheelbase 760. It runs on petrol and hydrogen. They did some speed records with hydrogen combustion concept car too.
I wonder how does efficiency of burning hydrogen in a V12 compare to FCX's fuel cell?
 
"burning" hydrogen isn't really where we want to go with that technology, as it's still a combustive process, I think. Seems like such a waste. :p Bottom line is that the future is electric cars...the only issue is how they will be fueled.

jackass who left a negative rep said:
Fail
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Gee...thanks for the constructive criticism, Mr. invisible.
 
I'm still waiting for Quiky to respond to my PM regarding all those neg reps that have been going round lately. We'll find out who this bastard is an then hit him hard with the banhammer. :nazibanned:
 
NecroJoe said:
"burning" hydrogen isn't really where we want to go with that technology, as it's still a combustive process, I think. Seems like such a waste. :p Bottom line is that the future is electric cars...the only issue is how they will be fueled.
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But will we miss the sound of combustion? Hydrogen V12 still has it. Only tyre and wind noise in the future... Vroom Box is pathetic.
And does its inefficiency matter when exhausts are not polluting? Maybe the petrol/hydrogen combustion engine is for the phase when hydrogen filling stations are not everywhere.
 
^ its no good just wasting hydrogen on inefficient processes.... i know hydrogen is abundant, but its always attached to something. you got to seperate it and that costs energy. so yeah it wont pollute when combusted but if the process of extracting hydrogen does, then we havent really gone anywhere.

hopefully some bright spark is gonna find a way of producing hydrogen on the cheap and for little energy cost
 
Have you driven in an electric car (a real one)? They make their own sound. Sure, it's not a V8 burble or a V12 roar (I'm as much a fan of those as anybody. SLR? V8 Vantage N24? *shivers*)

As I've said before, you can't have something spinning at 12,500 RPMs and NOT have it make a kick-ass noise. It just a different noise.

The only time the car would only make tire and wind noise, would probably be during non-energetic highway cruising, or stop-n-go traffic. Do you really need to hear the white noise of the engine? Modern cars have an automatic volume control that increases the volume of the radio to drown out loud noise the faster you go. To most people, that sound over long drives actually causes fatigue. Very noisy cars suck on long drives (that's why exhaust butterfly valves on luxury sports cars have become so prevalent. You get the noise when you want it, and quiet when you don't) so a car that's noisy all the time for the sake of being noisy is...to me, silly.

Lastly, the combustion of Hydrogen is not as clean as a fuel cell, unless it's ONLY combined with oxygen. (That means you'd have to have an on-board source of hydrogen AND Oxygen.) When the combustion takes place with the air as in a normal ICE, there's carbon dioxide, nitrogen, etc. Nitrous oxide, etc. Also, there's always a trace amount of oil that's burned with EVERY stroke of an ICE. That gives you carbon monoxide, and carbon dioxide.
 
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Nikodemus said:
But will we miss the sound of combustion? Hydrogen V12 still has it. Only tyre and wind noise in the future... Vroom Box is pathetic.
And does its inefficiency matter when exhausts are not polluting? Maybe the petrol/hydrogen combustion engine is for the phase when hydrogen filling stations are not everywhere.
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Well, for one sound deadening is getting better pretty much every minute (ever seen Ford's "silent steel"? I held a piece once, it was utterly quiet like thick plastic). For two, the electric cars do make their own little noises. Remember the Lola T70 chase in THX 1138? They sound like that when they get going quick. Mr. Lucas wasn't far off the beat on that one.
 
MadCat360 said:
ever seen Ford's "silent steel"? I held a piece once, it was utterly quiet like thick plastic
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I know what you mean, but I just had to post this Mr Show clip with a "quiet" pan.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQAFv1sI6TU[/YOUTUBE]
 
I think the biggest difference between people who, hate hydrogen fuel cell technology, and those that see it as the future, is that the haters are basing all their problems with it on current technology. The pro hydrogen camp on the other hand is basing it on some fairly reasonable projections for future technology. This could also be used as an argument for plug-in battery vehicles, but from personal experience batteries have advanced bugger all. I have an 8 year old laptop that has a battery life that is the same as a current similar sized laptop.

Realistically I'm probably going to close to 30(I'm currently 20) when I can afford a decent new car. And whether I have to lock in a hydrogen nozzle or plug it in to make it go, I don't care so long as it works just as well as my rubbish old Mazda 121.
 
^ thats exactly right, us lot will miss the engine note and some of us will lament which ever tech comes to fruition...but for everyone else, they just wont care. if it works, gets them from A to B, cheaply and conveniently then it'll sell just like all the cars before it.
 
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