VW Unveils Mid-Engined Roadster Concept

ApexOversteer said:
How can a car, completely and totally derived from motor sport, not be sporty?
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This may surprise you, but motor sports does not necessarily equal sporty. Being quick in motor sports in about making the fastest thing within the regulations - it doesn't matter how it sounds, or how it makes the driver feel, all that matters is that it's quicker than the other guy. And being quicker than the other guy isn't automatic qualification as sporty. To use my earlier example - my old MR2 was slower, both in a straight-line and around bends, than my current Astra. But which one's sportier?
 
sporty:
[youtube]j7rEFxUxxpU[/youtube]
Now imagine the same scene with a Diesel-equipped R8. Let's assume it would even clock a faster time than that F430, would you define the Audi as being 'sportier'?
 
fbc said:
This may surprise you, but motor sports does not necessarily equal sporty. Being quick in motor sports in about making the fastest thing within the regulations - it doesn't matter how it sounds, or how it makes the driver feel, all that matters is that it's quicker than the other guy. And being quicker than the other guy isn't automatic qualification as sporty. To use my earlier example - my old MR2 was slower, both in a straight-line and around bends, than my current Astra. But which one's sportier?
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My dictionary defines "sporty" as "appropriate for sport, or participation in sport".

Your Astra is not currently fitting that definition, nor is a stock MR2. But both can attain that definition if equipped properly.

All I'm saying is that once TDi won LeMans, it has achieved an evolutionary stage such that it is becoming viable as a technology for use in sporting, and sporty cars, using the proper English definition of the words "sporting" and "sporty".
 
the Interceptor said:
sporty:
[youtube]j7rEFxUxxpU[/youtube]
Now imagine the same scene with a Diesel-equipped R8. Let's assume it would even clock a faster time than that F430, would you define the Audi as being 'sportier'?
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I would define it as being equally sporty.

We don't even agree on a definition of "sporty" so I don't see a reason to start slicing it up into levels of "sportiness". :mrgreen:
 
Agreed! :)

Get yourself a car with a nice N/A engine though, find a good road, and then have a go. You'll know what fbc and I are on about then.
 
The concept of sportyness is far too ambiguous. And by your defenition Redline, any car be considered sporty since motorsport is just 2 or more cars (hell, one with time trials) racing against each other. So if a car is working the way it should, its appropriate for sport or participation in sport. And before someone brings up Rolls Royce into the mix one could also bring up the Top Gear test between Jeremey's Grosser and James' Rolls and call it a motorsprt event of sorts. It'd hold up in court is all I'm saying.

My own grading scale for sportiness is based on how much the performance aspect of a car is meant to define its character if that makes sense. Also, I think its silly to say a supercar can only be mid engined making an MR2 more supercar-ish than a Viper

EDIT: I actually came here to comment on the VW. I think its awesome I hope they bring it here i look forward to seein a few around and maybe giving one a test drive :yes:
 
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the Interceptor said:
Agreed! :)

Get yourself a car with a nice N/A engine though, find a good road, and then have a go. You'll know what fbc and I are on about then.
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I've owned and driven several sportscars in my lifetime. I don't disagree with the sensations you both connect to "sportiness". I just don't limit my definition of "sportiness" to those sensations and those sensations alone.

I've driven 500hp Corvettes and 120hp Triumphs. The most satisfying car I've driven fast is my Manx, with a paltry 40hp. It's not sporty, but I'm headed that direction. The level of concentration and skill it takes to catch, and pass, cars that people consider to be "world-class sportscars" is intensely gratifying to me.

But I'm open to anything. Technology moves and changes so fast, especially in automaking, that it's just not worth it to close my mind to anything. You never know where the next advancement is going to come from.

Diesel is never going to replace petrol in any capacity within the realm of sporty cars. But I see nothing wrong with the idea that it can stand beside petrol, on equal terms at the track, or the spirited driving road... when it's ready... and that day is coming.
 
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the Interceptor said:
Agreed! :)

Get yourself a car with a nice N/A engine though, find a good road, and then have a go. You'll know what fbc and I are on about then.
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A fun (my definition of sporty) car does not have to be N/A
 
fbc said:
This may surprise you, but motor sports does not necessarily equal sporty. Being quick in motor sports in about making the fastest thing within the regulations - it doesn't matter how it sounds, or how it makes the driver feel, all that matters is that it's quicker than the other guy. And being quicker than the other guy isn't automatic qualification as sporty.
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Absolutely true...

An example of this is the comparison of engine characteristics between the twin turbo unit found in the 911 Turbo, and the naturally aspirated unit found in the GT3. The former (known as the "Mezger Engine") has propelled Various Porsches (956, 962, WSC Prototype, and 911 GT1) to victory at Le Mans 10 times between them. The N/A version found in the GT3, hasn't (although used in said car with success), but is still universally considered the most sporty of the two. This is mostly due to:
1) Lower weight
2) Revs faster
3) More linear power/torque delivery
4) More vocal

When it comes to diesels weight is a fairly big issue, with cast iron engine blocks and so on. Furthermore, diesels tend to have a very short all/nothing power-band/delivery, and the show is all over at about 3500-4000 rpm. Finally, to my ears, the sounds agricultural equipment are hardly evocative. Therefore I don't find a diesel engine suitable for a sportscar just yet...

The engine found in the Le Mans prototypes are a moot point as the there is little resemblance to anything found in showroom models.
 
ApexOversteer said:
IMO, if a technology wins LeMans
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That has a lot more to do with the LeMans regulations i think you'll find. A sporty car should have a good exhaust note, a TDI golf does not have a good exhaust note.
 
^ Neither does the LeMans TDI. It sounds like a spaceship. :p
 
marcos_eirik said:
The engine found in the Le Mans prototypes are a moot point as the there is little resemblance to anything found in showroom models.
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Cold Fussion said:
That has a lot more to do with the LeMans regulations i think you'll find. A sporty car should have a good exhaust note, a TDI golf does not have a good exhaust note.
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I think you will both find that, no matter the inspiration for these race engines, the knowledge gained from the use of them in competition will be applied to the diesel engines going into roadcars and in the not-too-distant future there will be a road-going diesel sportscar performing at similar levels to the conventional petrol powered cars.
 
IMO. Clean diesel is the way to go if you want 'green but exciting' motoring. So this thing is pure WIN
 
YES YES YES. Build the thing, right now.
Diesel sportscars FTMFW!

This thing is more awesome than that picture of an Audi RS + boobs + explosions + Chuck Norris + Dinosaurs
 
It looks too mean. Roadsters should have an edge to it, but a friendly competition 'attitude'. not 'come here let me tear your heart out and eat it' menace.
 
Looks ten times better than the TT, now fit a manual and the 2.0tfsi and this would be a REAL seller.
 
Looks and sounds good to me. VW and Porsche together would make great competition in the "high-powered" roadster market. Front does look like a ticked-off S2000, but the rest isn't bad.
 
It looks evil I am pleased. It will go nicely with my happy sunshine car.
 
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