Audi S4 and S5 planned to be 4 cylinder!

[prizrak]

Many of the people who complain about superior engineering solutions taking away their 'old school feed' of V8 engine noises and displacement...are victims of sentimentality and history and personal experience has shown time and time again, sentimentality is a huge human flaw that leads to mostly bad decisions and irrational emotions. I'm victim to them too sometimes but i prefer to not let good sense be overriden by fondness of the past.

Look forward ppl, time doesn't go in the backwards direction

Would you rather have a Tesla roadster or an Exige S?

 

[The_Finn]

provided the Tesla can give 95% of the performance of the exige why costing me significantly less in gas why wouldn't i want it.

 

[edkwon]

Would you rather have a Tesla roadster or an Exige S?

Neither honestly, if that helps answer your quesiton. But seriously, i'd rather have a peformance car that uses a new technology like fuel injection, rather than an old one using carburetors, if i use it as an everyday car.

 

[prizrak]

provided the Tesla can give 95% of the performance of the exige why costing me significantly less in gas why wouldn't i want it.

Lack of any kind of engine noise, no shifting at all....

Neither honestly, if that helps answer your quesiton. But seriously, i'd rather have a peformance car that uses a new technology like fuel injection, rather than an old one using carburetors, if i use it as an everyday car.

But would you rather have an electric car over an internal combustion one? Provided you can only have one car.

 

[edkwon]

Lack of any kind of engine noise, no shifting at all....

But would you rather have an electric car over an internal combustion one? Provided you can only have one car.

An electric car with that kind of performance and tq? Yes. I'll repeat myself, I prefer modern technology that works better and looks forward than something that doesnt work as well but makes noises that stirs nostalgic memories. The need to rekindle nostalgia is...when you step back at look how it impacts on humanity...such a bad one.

There's a reason why time and time again, literary greats, films, etc make the point that 'living in the past' while may be pleasurable, is ultimately a bad thing.

You're welcome to enjoy what you enjoy, i apologize for not prioritizing the same things as you.

Seriously what do you think of those old guys whp\o refuse to listening to other than LPs/vinyl. In 20 years ppl will look at you the same way

 

[The_Finn]

Lack of any kind of engine noise, no shifting at all....

why do you i need to shift? 100% of torque 100% of the time baby.

 

[klankymen]

So why don't you just keep the V8 S4 you already have?

If I already had one, I wouldn't be complaining, what the fuck kind of logic is that? The reason why I don't want cars to get worse, is so that I can still buy a good car when I have the money to do so.

 

[prizrak]

An electric car with that kind of performance and tq? Yes. I'll repeat myself, I prefer modern technology that works better and looks forward than something that doesnt work as well but makes noises that stirs nostalgic memories. The need to rekindle nostalgia is...when you step back at look how it impacts on humanity...such a bad one.

There's a reason why time and time again, literary greats, films, etc make the point that 'living in the past' while may be pleasurable, is ultimately a bad thing.

You're welcome to enjoy what you enjoy, i apologize for not prioritizing the same things as you.

Seriously what do you think of those old guys whp\o refuse to listening to other than LPs/vinyl. In 20 years ppl will look at you the same way

I doubt all cars are gonna be electric in 20 years.

why do you i need to shift? 100% of torque 100% of the time baby.

Cuz shifting is FUN

 

[edkwon]

If I already had one, I wouldn't be complaining, what the fuck kind of logic is that? The reason why I don't want cars to get worse, is so that I can still buy a good car when I have the money to do so.

News flash: altho you may be too short sighted to see past your own nose, you will always have good cars to choose from at the time you're ready to buy one. Stop whining, it's unbecoming of an adult (which I presume you are)

 

[klankymen]

News flash: altho you may be too short sighted to see past your own nose, you will always have good cars to choose from at the time you're ready to buy one. Stop whining, it's unbecoming of an adult (which I presume you are)

Obviously there will always be some good cars, but I'd prefer there be more rather than less.

I have no problem with technology going forwards, but I do have a problem with it going backwards.

You may call it whining, but if nobody were to ever say when they are unhappy with something, we would never get anywhere.

 

[thedguy]

Lack of any kind of engine noise, no shifting at all....

Considering that means cops would be confused as fuck when the ONLY thing they may hear bouncing off the canyon walls is the squeal of the tires, I'll gladly take the tesla.

The need to shift is a limitation of ICE not a benefit of it.

 

[actng]

i like this move
the only down side to turbo is turbo lag
and that's "fixed" with smaller turbos or twin turbos like in the 335i

in return you get on demand performance when you floor it and when you drive gingerly, you get excellent fuel economy compared to a larger high performance engine.

turboing a smaller engine is like the best of both worlds in my opinion... also allows for the option to easily add more power which is just a chip away.

 

[prizrak]

The need to shift is a limitation of ICE not a benefit of it.

It is still fun. How many people criticize the R35 for having a DSG instead of a normal stick shift? My point in all of this is that enthusiasts may very well be against newer tech because of certain emotional attachments but at the same time enthusiasts are a very small number of car owners and are in no way stopping development of new tech. Most companies do take that into account when making a car for enthusiasts and give them what they want.

i like this move
the only down side to turbo is turbo lag
and that's "fixed" with smaller turbos or twin turbos like in the 335i

in return you get on demand performance when you floor it and when you drive gingerly, you get excellent fuel economy compared to a larger high performance engine.

turboing a smaller engine is like the best of both worlds in my opinion... also allows for the option to easily add more power which is just a chip away.

Chipping the engine depends highly on the ECU used and the turbo. You can technically allow for 30lbs of boost if you have a factory EBC but your turbo will run out of effciency at 15 and will melt itself at 25. (have a friend who had a vac hose come off so his waste gate wasn't actuated, he just bought a new turbo...)

If you get a ball bearing or a foil bearing variable vane turbo you won't notice any lag whatsoever since you will have full boost pretty much at idle. As a downside you are not getting much economy if you spool that early

There will still be a considerable difference in feel between a large displacement V8 and a small-medium displacement turbo there is just no way around it. The question is will it be enough of a difference to make the S4/5 undesirable?

 

[stevanford1]

I'm guessing this means the end of the A4 turbo. I think i actually like this direction Audi is taking with the S4 and S5.

 

[The_Finn]

It is still fun. How many people criticize the R35 for having a DSG instead of a normal stick shift? My point in all of this is that enthusiasts may very well be against newer tech because of certain emotional attachments but at the same time enthusiasts are a very small number of car owners and are in no way stopping development of new tech. Most companies do take that into account when making a car for enthusiasts and give them what they want.

that doesn't change the fact that havign to shift is a sortcoming of of internal combustion engines...

but we are not here to argue about electic vs. ICE or Manual vs. DSG so back on topic.

Provided they give the I4 (come on gimmie an I5 as a nod to the old ANN motors) enough displacement to spool a good sized snail Quickly i don't see performance suffering at all while giving much better economy. It will however make the car harder to drive fast since you will have to work to keep the turbo spooled. Now on the "Fuck economy performance with no compromise" vs. "Gimme my speed but i want to drive more than 200 miles between fill ups" i really find myself pulled more toward the latter. I mean i fully appreciate the former but i feel like Audi isn't in the bussiness of making cars like that. Audi makes blistering fast saloons (and coupes with back seats) that can be flogged till the cows come home but are still comfortable rides into town to get groceries and for that i want fuel economy. Also i want to point out that despite what you would like to believe 90% or the people out there feel the same way and catering to a small group dedicated enthusiasts isn't exactly a great bussiness model for a car company as large as audi so if most people want better fuel economy guess what we are going to get.

 

[stevanford1]

Chipping the engine depends highly on the ECU used and the turbo. You can technically allow for 30lbs of boost if you have a factory EBC but your turbo will run out of effciency at 15 and will melt itself at 25. (have a friend who had a vac hose come off so his waste gate wasn't actuated, he just bought a new turbo...)

Are you talking about Audi turbos or just generalising ?

If you get a ball bearing or a foil bearing variable vane turbo you won't notice any lag whatsoever since you will have full boost pretty much at idle. As a downside you are not getting much economy if you spool that early

Full boost at idle ?!? :? Unless your running anti-lag, turbo cars make NO boost at idle. How early in the rev range are you talking about regarding spool time ?

There will still be a considerable difference in feel between a large displacement V8 and a small-medium displacement turbo there is just no way around it. The question is will it be enough of a difference to make the S4/5 undesirable?

No. If it was an RS it possibly may have but people who tend to go for S4/5 just want cars that are faster than a regular A4. They don't really care whats powering them. (generalising)

 

[stevanford1]

It will however make the car harder to drive fast since you will have to work to keep the turbo spooled.

I wouldn't even see an A4T as a hard car to drive fast. They're on boost under 2000rpm. I suspect the S4 will be an easy car to drive quickly.

 

[The_Finn]

I wouldn't even see an A4T as a hard car to drive fast. They're on boost under 2000rpm. I suspect the S4 will be an easy car to drive quickly.

i didn't say it was a hard car to drive fast... I said it would be harder (i guess you could say it will take more concentration) to drive quickly than the current V8 powered S/RS because of the need to keep the turbo spooled. The torque of the V8 makes it less effected by missshifts or over braking where as a turbo motor not so much. The A4T has no lag because it only makes 220bhp at most you don't need alot of boost or a big turbo to get that much power out of even 1.8L however if you are trying to get 300+ out of a small displacement motor (hell even 2.4L) you better believe there is gonna be some lag.

 

[edkwon]

Obviously there will always be some good cars, but I'd prefer there be more rather than less.

I have no problem with technology going forwards, but I do have a problem with it going backwards.

You may call it whining, but if nobody were to ever say when they are unhappy with something, we would never get anywhere.

Your definition of going backwards is hightly subjective.

You seem to think performance cars need to have bigger engines, louder exhausts, more rumble and shaking, etc.

by that logic modern phones, laptops computers and other technology should really piss you off. How dare they make them smaller, generate less heat, do more for much less energy consumption and perform faster, yet more efficiently than their older counterparts.

Please tell me your behavoir is consistent and that modern, small compact cell phones, mp3 players, computers really piss you off and that you prefer to use stuff from 10 years ago.

If that is your preference, then the matter is settled and you win.

 

[prizrak]

Are you talking about Audi turbos or just generalising ?

Generalizing

Full boost at idle ?!? Unless your running anti-lag, turbo cars make NO boost at idle. How early in the rev range are you talking about regarding spool time ?

I think the 911T, had those VV turbos that spooled at like 1,200 or 1,500 something like that. Obviously the car would have be in gear first

I wouldn't even see an A4T as a hard car to drive fast. They're on boost under 2000rpm. I suspect the S4 will be an easy car to drive quickly.

You talking B7/8? Because B6 is not on full boost till about 3000 stock and around 4000 at Stage 1.

i didn't say it was a hard car to drive fast... I said it would be harder (i guess you could say it will take more concentration) to drive quickly than the current V8 powered S/RS because of the need to keep the turbo spooled. The torque of the V8 makes it less effected by missshifts or over braking where as a turbo motor not so much. The A4T has no lag because it only makes 220bhp at most you don't need alot of boost or a big turbo to get that much power out of even 1.8L however if you are trying to get 300+ out of a small displacement motor (hell even 2.4L) you better believe there is gonna be some lag.

It's pretty hard to drive fast actually if you are trying to go from normal driving to going fast. The 1.8L is actually 170 stock and the 2.0L is 200 to the crank. I got a Stage 1 APR on mine so I'm technically making 215 to the crank right now but even then you always have to downshift if you want to really accelerate while running on the highway. With the tune tho full boost is not even till 4000

You seem to think performance cars need to have bigger engines, louder exhausts, more rumble and shaking, etc.

Well they don't have to but it doesn't hurt