BOHICA: GM gets another $2 billion as deadline approaches

[_HighVoltage_]

Sorry dude your kinda on the wrong track: You honestly can't make the comparisons your making. You are dealing with different vehicle emission standards in the US, and a lower fuel quality than is generally found in Europe.

I would bet your Euro motors would have much higher emissions of NOx, CO and HC --> more polluting even when you take into account that the US motors use more fuel.

Anyway I would much rather a larger engine with a little less power: One reason is power band (torque) and generally speaking a under stressed motor will last much longer.

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Sorry for being reasonable, I won't let it happen again

First of all, both of the engines I mentioned are sold in the US and pass emissions with no problems (and since when do we care about emissions on FinalGear )

Second - both the BMW and Volvo engines are known to last more than 200k miles, with the only requirement being that you change the timing belt every 60-70k miles.

In general, the point you are making is correct. But since the 90's, European engines were made both reliable and powerful. So the belief that bigger, lower compression engines last longer isn't necessarily true.

 

[prizrak]

First of all, both of the engines I mentioned are sold in the US and pass emissions with no problems (and since when do we care about emissions on FinalGear )

Second - both the BMW and Volvo engines are known to last more than 200k miles, with the only requirement being that you change the timing belt every 60-70k miles.

In general, the point you are making is correct. But since the 90's, European engines were made both reliable and powerful. So the belief that bigger, lower compression engines last longer isn't necessarily true.

Not to mention that Japanese cars are legendary for their reliability and longevity and they all have engines that are similar to European designs in displacement-to-power ratio.

 

[MattD1zzl3]

There is a lot of "they say" and "everyone knows that" in this thread, the sign of an agreement-by-consensus. Something i hate

 

[prizrak]

There is a lot of "they say" and "everyone knows that" in this thread, the sign of an agreement-by-consensus. Something i hate

You know what they say, stereotypes don't come from nothing. While I agree that "they say" is not necessarily the best way to go about an argument but those beliefs do come from somewhere.

 

[MattD1zzl3]

Really, youre just as likely to see "They say black people commit more crimes" or "Everyone knows that Iraq had nukes". Sure everyone says that but it doesnt make it any less ridiculous.

 

[Spectre]

Really, youre just as likely to see "They say black people commit more crimes" or "Everyone knows that Iraq had nukes". Sure everyone says that but it doesnt make it any less ridiculous.

Out of 42-some GM rental cars I've had in the past 10 years, ALL of them have been crap/shit/some other form of fecal matter - despite the fact that sometimes I was the first person to rent them and therefore the excuse of "it got beat on" doesn't apply.

The fact of the matter is that while GM had some few bright spots and decent RWD powertrains, they refused to fix the myriad of obvious problems with their mainstream bread-and-butter cars, the classes that most people actually buy. Those cars they actually did get right (GTO, for example), were often blighted by terrible dealers and abysmal customer service.


Seriously, when a new $45,000 Buick with 3 miles on it isn't as well screwed together as a creaky twenty year old Jaguar with 230K on the clock, there's something very, very, very wrong with GM.

 

[freeferrarisdonotexist]

Really, youre just as likely to see "They say black people commit more crimes" or "Everyone knows that Iraq had nukes". Sure everyone says that but it doesnt make it any less ridiculous.

This isn't based on "everyone says" it's based on "most people's experience, not what they felt like thinking". For the other part of my argument see above comment.

 

[Cobol74]

Working for a US company myself; we are suffering from what is known by my colleagues and I as

1. "We've been broad brushed again", or

2. Tick box management - where you have to jump through loads of hopes to please some bloke who does not know you or what you do or anything else about you and your relationship with the company.

Is this normal for US management or is it a special torture focussed by UK management from the demands made upon them by the US bean counters I wonder?

 

[prizrak]

Bottom line is that GM has largely produced products that are inferior in just about every way to anything put out by international competitors. The good products they did produce were overshadowed by horrible customer service and dealer network. They did not have a foresight to not sign a blanket agreement with UAW fucking themselves over with employees as well.

The biggest problem with the bailout of GM (or any other company) is that we are talking about companies that weren't good enough for us to purchase their products/services and now they are getting our money anyway.

 

[NooDle]

erm where do these millions and billions keep coming from? isn't everyone in the US now piss poor already?

 

[Spectre]

erm where do these millions and billions keep coming from? isn't everyone in the US now piss poor already?

Not exactly... but the government has cranked up the printing presses "to eleven." Government spending this year will be a staggering 29% of GDP, IIRC. It's part of why I'm screaming my head off for them to stop these bailouts and stimulus plans - this money is going to have to be paid back somehow.

 

[_HighVoltage_]

Government spending this year will be a staggering 29% of GDP, IIRC.

How much has it been in the past?

 

[JakeRadden]

Not exactly... but the government has cranked up the printing presses "to eleven." Government spending this year will be a staggering 29% of GDP, IIRC. It's part of why I'm screaming my head off for them to stop these bailouts and stimulus plans - this money is going to have to be paid back somehow.

Going to be my generation, I'm afraid. Along with all the other shit. I'm already planning not to have social security in any form to support me in retirement.

 

[Spectre]

Going to be my generation, I'm afraid. Along with all the other shit. I'm already planning not to have social security in any form to support me in retirement.

Yeah, my generation (at least those who have a clue) are also assuming there will be no Social Security for us either.

How much has it been in the past?

Related: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090427/ap_on_bi_go_ec_fi/us_treasury_borrowing

Seems that ever since the TARP bailout, the Treasury has been borrowing (aka "printing money") at astounding rates.

 

[_HighVoltage_]

Well, if they indeed are printing more money, then we're in much deeper shit in this. Inflation will start to go up, inevitably and people will become poorer and poorer.

I've seen it happen in Bulgaria 12 years ago. Things became as bad as having a loaf of bread costing 1000 Bulgarian Levs. Salaries were in the 250,000-300,000 per month zone. It was ridiculuos!

Then in 1997 the people overthrew the government, and things started to go back to normal. Three zeros were eliminated from our currency, and the loaf of bread came back to costing just 1 Bulgarian Lev.

/history lesson

 

[prizrak]

Well, if they indeed are printing more money, then we're in much deeper shit in this. Inflation will start to go up, inevitably and people will become poorer and poorer.

I've seen it happen in Bulgaria 12 years ago. Things became as bad as having a loaf of bread costing 1000 Bulgarian Levs. Salaries were in the 250,000-300,000 per month zone. It was ridiculuos!

Then in 1997 the people overthrew the government, and things started to go back to normal. Three zeros were eliminated from our currency, and the loaf of bread came back to costing just 1 Bulgarian Lev.

/history lesson

Sounds like Ukraine, minus the overthrowing of government. We are indeed in very deep shit. Printing money by itself won't necessarily cause hyper inflation. It's been done before and money was slowly eliminated from circulation to bring it back to normal but that requires economy to turn around rather quickly (in economic terms) making this a very risky scenario.