Was the Veyron v McLaren race staged?

[the Interceptor]

for starters, it's got a problem with the basic handling of the chassis that has been masked by a draconian stability control system.

I'm not sure this car was made to handle. The stability control system surely is dominant, but since this is a superfast GT and not a nimble drivers car, I wouldn't state that as a problem. After all, it basically is a 4WD chassis around a humongously large and heavy engine. To get that to handle properly is somewhere between difficult and impossible.

Witness the disappointingly slow time around the TG track

Is it? If you look at the cars around it, I'd call it surprisingly quick.

witness the spins at Laguna Seca during the preproduction premiere

You sure it wasn't a driver error?

witness the infamous Fifth Gear test where the Veyron's post-Laguna electronic stability control system completely ignores the throttle in tight low-speed turns to keep it from spinning out.

And that's a problem how? Sure it can be annoying, but I wouldn't want a 987 hp car to go full monty in a tight turn.

Others have mentioned the cooling system as an area of concern as well.

The cooling seems to be just sufficient for the standard car. Yet, do archieve that they obviously had to go great lengths.

The temperatures (and Hammond's driving) were probably why the Veyron didn't do as well off the line - no doubt the engine computer was pulling timing/throttle like mad to keep the engine from detonating under boost and in that heat.

May well be. A lot of high-powered turbocharged cars lose quite a bit of grunt at these conditions though.

Therefore, I don't see the fail of Bugatti here, meaning that I couldn't say what they could have done better.

 

[Fiorano]

I protest, the race was totally unfair to the McLaren. There were no corners. We need to sue the bbc or something. Or throw cake at Clarkson.

Earlier in the series, JC said if you have a race between the F1 and the Veyron you can let the F1 get to 120mph THEN launch the Veyron and it will beat the F1 to 200mph.

The race showed the Veyron won by feet. If the previous statement was anywhere NEAR true, then the drag race was highly complimentary to the F1, I think.

The F1 looks much cooler anyway, so it wins in my book hands down.

 

[Dr_Grip]

Personally, I have no doubt that there's a lot of staged/scripted stuff in TG (the American episode, anyone?).

I also know, in an intellectual-knowing way, that every single photo of my favourite female Hollywood star is photoshopped and/or the result of hours spent in make-up. But i don't want to know in a "suspension of disbelief"-knowing way. It's the same with Top Gear. I've spent much too much time working both for feature and documentary films to really belive in a strict boundary between "scripted" and "real". There's no need to re-inforce this knowledge for every single TG segment, it spoils the fun, just like content-wise spoilers beforehand do.
Austrian documentary director Ulrich Seidl, for example, lets his interviewees speak text written by him as a condensation from earlier off-camera interviews on-camera, so strictly speaking every word spoken in the "documentary" is written by the director.

 

[Fiorano]

I don't think it was staged, I think there's two things at work. The Veyron may not have been launched as well as it could, .

Yeah I reckon this is the case. Remember, the F1 had the goddam Stig in it.

Hammond is no Stig. If that Veyron had a Stig in it I reckon it would have blitzed the F1.

It was also mentioned that the F1 was worth 2 million pounds. Was it the base model? Are there variants or upgrades possible? In the UAE, I bet there are.

 

[Adunaphel]

Production on the F1 was halted 11 years ago, after just over 100 cars were produced, it is a sought-after classic, so I think the 2 million figure is pretty accurate.

 

[Spectre]

I'm not sure this car was made to handle. The stability control system surely is dominant, but since this is a superfast GT and not a nimble drivers car, I wouldn't state that as a problem. After all, it basically is a 4WD chassis around a humongously large and heavy engine. To get that to handle properly is somewhere between difficult and impossible.

This is true, but compared with remarks like "handles like an Elise", etc., etc? Especially when it is you Germans (and to a lesser degree the Brits) that proved the truth of the adage, "With proper suspension design and sufficient tire plus enough engine power, weight is irrelevant."

Is it? If you look at the cars around it, I'd call it surprisingly quick.

I'm saying compared to the hype and how it was expected to perform. If anything, it should have been faster by being technically able to absolutely murder the straights.

You sure it wasn't a driver error?

Pretty sure, especially since shortly before the Laguna Seca spin, Bugatti accidentally completely destroyed another prototype in high speed handling testing. Reported reason - flat spin in a corner, same thing that happened to the LS car.

And that's a problem how? Sure it can be annoying, but I wouldn't want a 987 hp car to go full monty in a tight turn.

True, but the engine doesn't even pick up at all. You can floor the throttle in a tight low speed turn and apparently the car stays at idle. Watch that Fifth Gear test, it's hilarious.

The cooling seems to be just sufficient for the standard car. Yet, do archieve that they obviously had to go great lengths.

Yeah, but "just sufficient" does not mean having overcapacity or the ability to cool 1001hp worth of turbocharged combustion in 110F heat. That's not a failure either, most turbo cars can't. Their computers dial back their tune so they don't overheat and cook the engine or blow up.

May well be. A lot of high-powered turbocharged cars lose quite a bit of grunt at these conditions though.

Yes, both because of the air density and the engine control computer dialing things back to protect the engine. This is not a flaw for any car doing this, that's just prudent and how it should be.

Therefore, I don't see the fail of Bugatti here, meaning that I couldn't say what they could have done better.

In the case of this drag race, there's nothing they could have done better. I'm not saying it's a fail in this case. In the case of "why aren't they letting people do comparison tests with a sanctioned car," yes, Bugatti fails for the reasons I've stated.

 

[Bizness]

It was just awesome to see. Don't see too many Mc F1's being driven anymore.

 

[Fiorano]

Production on the F1 was halted 11 years ago, after just over 100 cars were produced, it is a sought-after classic, so I think the 2 million figure is pretty accurate.

Oh right. Sorry about my assumption.

 

[settler]

Remember that British car are always a little bit better in TG. I got used to it and don't care now.

And we all know how scripted is TG. Race like this looks better then Veyron with a lead from a beginning. It is 13th season you should expect things like this.

 

[the Interceptor]

This is true, but compared with remarks like "handles like an Elise", etc., etc? Especially when it is you Germans (and to a lesser degree the Brits) that proved the truth of the adage, "With proper suspension design and sufficient tire plus enough engine power, weight is irrelevant."

It's all relative. People claiming that "it handles like an Elise" need to be asked whether they're truly talking about an Elise, or rather an Elise-ish handling in comparison to the weight of the Veyron and/or what they expected. On the same basis, you sure can say that "weight is irrelevant" with a proper chassis setup. Still, you can not overcome weight completely, only up to a certain degree.

What isn't relative however is that the Brits pretty much invented the weight thing, we Germans didn't do anything.

I'm saying compared to the hype and how it was expected to perform. If anything, it should have been faster by being technically able to absolutely murder the straights.

Every prediction as to where it would go on the board was nothing than a good guess. I'm sure it did murder the straights, but if you already have a disadvantage when coming out of every corner, ultimate acceleration will likely be not sufficient to save the laptime at the end of the day.

Pretty sure, especially since shortly before the Laguna Seca spin, Bugatti accidentally completely destroyed another prototype in high speed handling testing. Reported reason - flat spin in a corner, same thing that happened to the LS car.

They probably fiddled with aerodynamics quite a bit during making the car. Remember James May saying that they couldn't find a wind tunnel to test max. speed aerodynamics. All the wings and the electronics aside, I think you can still spin it out on pretty much every occasion if you provoke it "properly".

True, but the engine doesn't even pick up at all. You can floor the throttle in a tight low speed turn and apparently the car stays at idle. Watch that Fifth Gear test, it's hilarious.

I have watched it when it aired, but I fail to see the hilarity. I understand that it annoyed the hell out of Tiff, but I don't know what else they should do other than cut the power completely.

In the case of this drag race, there's nothing they could have done better. I'm not saying it's a fail in this case. In the case of "why aren't they letting people do comparison tests with a sanctioned car," yes, Bugatti fails for the reasons I've stated.

I understand that, but my point is that it doesn't fail, rather than reach natural boundaries that are more or less impossible to overcome.

 

[hansvonaxion]

Earlier in the series, JC said if you have a race between the F1 and the Veyron you can let the F1 get to 120mph THEN launch the Veyron and it will beat the F1 to 200mph.

The race showed the Veyron won by feet. If the previous statement was anywhere NEAR true, then the drag race was highly complimentary to the F1, I think.

The F1 looks much cooler anyway, so it wins in my book hands down.

I remember a similar statement that says if the F1 gets a 10 second head start the Veyron reaches 200mph at the same time.

So I was also a bit surprised at how well the F1 did, but pleasantly surprised because I love it.

And if I had money to burn I'd get a Veyron too, for the hell of it.

 

[Karoug]

Come on! This is Top gear. The F1 had to loose gracefully...

 

[Labcoatguy]

Of course it was staged. Races between a Veyron and an F1 don't happen by accident.

 

[Adunaphel]

</thread>

 

[flydiscovery]

Of course it was staged. Races between a Veyron and an F1 don't happen by accident.

LOL. Not even in Abu Dhabi?

 

[Labcoatguy]

LOL. Not even in Abu Dhabi?

...You have a point. :lol:

 

[BlaRo]

The thing is though, everybody knows the numbers of the two cars already, and judging by numbers alone the Veyron should have easily trounced the McLaren (0-60 in 3.2 isn't even shocking anymore, Zondas and Ferraris can do that now). Yet the fact that the McLaren whooped ass at the start should say to me that this wasn't staged.

There's a difference between getting multiple runs in and filming the one that looks the best, and outright telling one of the drivers to take it easy for a fixed result. It's not boxing.

 

[dj.TAKA]

I still believe both Hammond/Stiggy where giving it a bootful. It's just the added combination of the Veryons Weight, the Dry Humidity blunting the Veryons performance (less efficient turbos) and the fact I'm sure the Stig would be slighty more skilled getting a car off the line resulted in what happened, tbh.

 

[Mr. Nice]

Taken from autozine

Use a calculator and you will be surprised that its power-to-weight ratio is actually lower than McLaren F1, then followed very closely by Ferrari Enzo. This doesn't affect its advantage in top speed (which concerns about power and drag) and straight line acceleration (because it has overwhelming advantage in torque and traction), but when all three cars are put in the same racing circuit, which one will return the quickest lap time ? the answer is not so clear.

Drag racing tends to be about timing. Getting off the lights just right is something drag racers tend to talk about a lot. If Hammond was a mere 7/10ths of a second slower getting off the line, the McLaren would tie the Veyron to 60 in perfect conditions. So, lets just say that there were no other factors involving the heat or launch control or any of those things. For the Veyron to be behind at all, all it would take is a slightly slower start.

I find the worship of the Veyron by members of this forum to be strange. Whenever it gets shown up in the slightest, people cry foul and lose their minds. It's just a car, and mechanically, it can be beaten.

 

[Burak]

We saw that Veyron is not so good at cornering against to other hypercars. I think McLaren will be much faster than Veyron at the track. It is possible to do around 1:17

I hope they will do power lap with McLaren.