Whale wars: Watch Eco-pussies attack japanese whalers, and fail hilariously

just read on wikipedia:
"In June, 2009, Sea Shepherd announced their 2009-10 Antarctic campaign, called Operation Waltzing Matilda.[73] The futuristic carbon-fibre and kevlar trimaran Earthrace will be joining Sea Shepherd for this campaign according to its owner/operator, Peter Bethune.[74] The Earthrace will be painted black and operate as a 'stealth boat'.[75] Sea Shepherd says it is also considering buying a second ship to complement the Steve Irwin.[76]"

To be honest, that does sound pretty cool.
 
Well, this is what I'm trying to get a handle on. It can't be the number of whales, because aboriginal hunters take a not insignificant number of whales (the numbers I gave earlier didn't even include Canada's take). It can't be the methods, because they also use modern, exploding grenade harpoons. It can't be the processing and sale of the meat, because whale meat is available in supermarkets in America.

I guess the key word you used was locally, while most groups whale locally Japan catches whales in international waters. However the IWC has denied them permission numerous times to whale locally. What's up with that?
I have no idea. Where I was trying to get at is this: if it's about a non-endangered species of whales like the minke, and some crowds live by pretty low standards in technical terms and therefore hunt minke whales for using them for food supply and producing other goods (don't know exactly what you can make out of a minke, but I think it serves for more than just meat), I am fine with them whaling.

Where I see a problem is when someone goes whaling to prove the point that commercial whaling will not harm the whale population, when - and this is the important bit - there is no demand for products made from these whales. If there's no demand, there's no money to be made, and thus no reason for commercial whaling.
 
Clearly there is some demand, or whaling would have stopped years ago for lack of money. I know i would buy whale meat if it was provided to me at the grocery store, its fucking delicious.
 
You would, but would others, too?
For their part, however, the public is not really buying. While the Japanese Fisheries Agency claims that up to 5000 tonnes of whale meat are consumed every year in this country, estimates suggest that at least 3000 tonnes are now sitting unwanted in cold storage.

Despite falling market prices, and regular government efforts to "educate" the population by way of academic lectures, food festivals, and compulsory school lunches, whale meat remains a dish that few modern Japanese have eaten more than twice. Not because it is scarce, they just don?t like it.

Daiki Fukuda is owner of a traditional izakaya restaurant called Paddock, in the northern coastal prefecture of Ishikawa.? His?reasons?for not serving whale?meat are purely culinary. "It doesn?t taste good," he says.

"I think it?s very strange to go hunting for whales near the South Pole when we have other meat and fish that are much more delicious. I tried whale meat once at school when I was a kid, and I hated it. We all did."
Source: http://sundayherald.co.uk/international/shinternational/display.var.2505697.0.0.php
 
Typed up a nice long response that got lost which fucking royally pissed me off... just came back to post my main point:

Those Sea Shepherds are borderline noble for doing what they do... it doesn't matter how stupid and ineffective their tactics are, what matters is that they are making their voices and their message heard while governments and other groups who might be concerned fail to take any kind of action.

You can't expect the governments ever to do the right thing... sure, they might make one sound decision here and one ethical choice there, but it's all purely coincidental. More and more I'm learning that politicians only have one thing in mind, which is maintaining or perhaps increasing their popularity so they win re-election, thus guaranteeing success both in their public and personal lives. Sometimes the lucrative choices are the right choices, but that's often not the case.

You can't expect the Japanese government to do anything, even if they saw whaling as a problem they would never change things because whaling is part of Japanese tradition and they would never be re-elected if they banned it. You also can't expect other governments to do anything because Japan is a powerful economic and military power and a first world country, so more or less an ally. So if there's any hope of anyone doing the right thing, it's these so-called hippies and environmentalists that most of you unfortunately seem to vehemently hate.


Plus, even when you look at the facts of the whole whaling thing it makes no sense. It doesn't matter if they're only killing a tiny percentage of the whole whale population... they're killing wild living beings just to do research on them. It would make more sense to me if this was commercial whaling, since then there would be a point.

They kill hundreds of whales every year, so they can do such basic research as determining their age and the population of their species? This make no sense... these are not lab rats, but large and majestic wild animals which should not be killed for such bogus reasons. The Nazis would argue the same fact too... sacrifice a small number of people so we can learn more things about human physiology and advance medicine, therefore doing a greater good for humanity as a whole. :rolleyes:

And since I've pretty much made all the points from my original post which got lost, here's the last point: How do you figure these Sea Shepherd are pussies as indicated in the thread title? They might not be that prepared and their cause of saving whales (that aren't near extinction yet) might not seem that noble to you, but one thing is for sure, these people are out there in bad, inhospitable environments risking their lives... and their stupidity, if anything, make me more sympathetic because they are put at even greater danger by it.

So yeah, if I am right in thinking a pussy is a cowardly person, then these are definitely not pussies. They do the best they can with the equipment and know-how they have, that's something at least.

Please people, don't just get into a huff whenever you see the words hippy or environmentalist somewhere... look at the facts and judge for yourself (and hopefully you're not getting your facts from a reality show). Research is one thing... but they're killing these whales in the hundreds for what exactly? Is their some kind of disease in the whale species they hope to cure or do they believe there's some hope to find the cure for cancer in these animals? There is no advantage for the animal population, and if you believe them that this isn't a commercial whaling business then there's no human advantages either. Then stop it already.
 
just read on wikipedia:
"In June, 2009, Sea Shepherd announced their 2009-10 Antarctic campaign, called Operation Waltzing Matilda.[73] The futuristic carbon-fibre and kevlar trimaran Earthrace will be joining Sea Shepherd for this campaign according to its owner/operator, Peter Bethune.[74] The Earthrace will be painted black and operate as a 'stealth boat'.[75] Sea Shepherd says it is also considering buying a second ship to complement the Steve Irwin.[76]"

To be honest, that does sound pretty cool.
This would be awesome! Good on the owner of the boat if he follows through on this too!
 
People who venture into inhospitable environments, unprepared and on a whim are idiots. Good intentions wont keep you afloat on the nastiest ocean in the world.
 
People who venture into inhospitable environments, unprepared and on a whim are idiots. Good intentions wont keep you afloat on the nastiest ocean in the world.

That's a reply to my post?

I was addressing the issue that these people were labeled as pussies by the OP... naivete does not equal cowardice (which to me is synonymous with being a pussy).
 
The Nazis would argue the same fact too... sacrifice a small number of people so we can learn more things about human physiology and advance medicine, therefore doing a greater good for humanity as a whole. :rolleyes:


You know, I was going to reply to your bleeding-heart post normally, but you Godwinned this thread and thus I'm just going to laugh at you instead because there's no way I can take it seriously anymore.

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
 
You know, I was going to reply to your bleeding-heart post normally, but you Godwinned this thread and thus I'm just going to laugh at you instead because there's no way I can take it seriously anymore.

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

That's probably the worst part of my argument... it's hot and there's lots of long posts in this thread I had to read first and I had to write my reply twice over. Terribly sorry that one part of my argument was so stupid that you couldn't even be bothered with the rest.

I didn't feel the need to ridicule or laugh at any of the other posts in here, even though some of them annoyed me quite a bit. The fact that you felt the need to laugh at me instead of just telling me off for making stupid points frankly says a lot about you.

Meh, I'll play the standard Vancouverite hippy (or bleeding-heart as you'd call me) and you play the standard Albertan conservative (or closed-minded person as I'd call you)... geographic stereotypes aside, I think we both fit those descriptions well. Oh well, we are what we are.


Edit: Seriously man, I'd love to hear your counter-arguments (and that's not an ultimatum type thing, I'm curious). You were the one who said that these whalers should be allowed to do what they do because they're only killing a tiny percent of the total population. That's a fair point and it, coupled with the fact that minke whales are not near extinction makes many of the claims made by the detractors of whaling void.

But I made some other points... they are not doing this for commercial reasons as they claim, they accepted the moratorium set by the IWC on whaling, so no problem there. What we're left with then, is the research of whales... which brings me to the two main points of my earlier post: Why do they actually need to slaughter nearly 1,000 whales and where is the results and findings of these research? If any research is actually being carried out, will it benefit either the human race or the whale population? The Japanese have failed at demonstrating any benefits, which leads me to believe there is no point to it other than tradition and money.
 
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just read on wikipedia:
"In June, 2009, Sea Shepherd announced their 2009-10 Antarctic campaign, called Operation Waltzing Matilda.[73] The futuristic carbon-fibre and kevlar trimaran Earthrace will be joining Sea Shepherd for this campaign according to its owner/operator, Peter Bethune.[74] The Earthrace will be painted black and operate as a 'stealth boat'.[75] Sea Shepherd says it is also considering buying a second ship to complement the Steve Irwin.[76]"

To be honest, that does sound pretty cool.

Too bad its not actually stealth, and I doubt this boat will have any use in ice... plus it only has 3,000 mile range, which makes it less useful. Totally, totally badass in theory... though frankly they should put money in an icebreaker.
 
The fact that you felt the need to laugh at me instead of just telling me off for making stupid points frankly says a lot about you.

Yes, it should tell you exactly what I think about people who claim ridiculous Nazi parallels for no reason whatsoever. Killing a small number of whales, hell yeah, that's like slaughtering people for science with Hitler!

Seriously, if you want rational debate, be rational from beginning to end. It's like David Icke - sure, some things he says may be correct and normal. But he also believes the world is run by shapeshifting lizard-men, so it kinda paints everything he says with the brush of idiocy. In the same fashion, you don't want to undermine an otherwise sensible post with crap like Nazi comparisons.
 
I edited might post, might want to go back and read my addition.

You're right, that wasn't the most well-thought out argument and right now I forget why I thought it was a sound comparison with whaling at all... but as I said, the fact that all you did was laugh at me is a bit childish.

You might think that I just sat at my keyboard and typed whatever entered my mind and then clicked submit... but some thought did go into my post, and you just picking one sentence out of multiple paragraphs, laughing at it and dismissing the rest is not in the spirit of holding discussions. You either challenge the ideas and theories of others or you concur with them... all I see you doing in this thread is making a few jokes and taking a few stabs at 'bleeding-hearts'. :dunno:
 
I think we've all written one of those David Copperfield posts and then wind up with hasty, paraphrased post when your browser decides to pack it up.

Now though, I didn't call the eco-sailors cowards, I called them idiots. They are braver than most protesters as they keep at it outside their comfort zone. They're not chasing these boats down with mai tai's and Hawaiian prints in the Gulf. They're plowing into some of the most dangerous waters on Earth.

That said, of the episodes I have watched, these guys are just not equipped correctly. They don't have the knowledge, experience, or common sense of the real sailors. Weather comes up quickly on the ocean and these guys are just asking for a maritime disaster.

Also like to say I think the Japanese have shown great restraint with these yahoos. I'm a sailor as well, and I've heard horror stories from captins in the past, ie. cracking skulls open with oars, scalps ripped off by machinery, Hell I was just talking to a river guide who said Lobster fisherman call sea kayakers speed bumps.
 
I could have sworn you said "No one is endangering humans".

I did, in reference to throwing buteric acid, which is what we were discussing.

I'm not saying the Sea Sheppards are without fault, it's clear they have done some things that they shouldn't have, and I'm not defending those actions. What I am saying is that I think they have noble goals and, if they stuck to throwing stink-bombs they would keep the moral high-ground in the PR war.

It's very cool to hear about Earthrace. I got to see that boat when she was docked in San Francisco a couple years ago. It's a very impressive boat.
 
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That's a reply to my post?

I was addressing the issue that these people were labeled as pussies by the OP... naivete does not equal cowardice (which to me is synonymous with being a pussy).

No, they are pussies because they act all tough and pirate-ish, but whenever someone gets a minor cut or injury there is always a shot of some sea shepherd crew member crying silently, they act like thrown metal bolts are assault rifles, and they are VEGAN. Also saving the whales makes me respect you much less as a person as well, i even understand the intentions of people who slash SUV tires, it doesnt make you any less of a douche, but thats a lot more tangible than saving a completely unendangered animal just because it looks cool.

I did, in reference to throwing buteric acid, which is what we were discussing.

So if i threw glass bottles of buteric acid at your car as you were driving it (lets just say because i claimed you were killing polar bears with greenhouse gas), and swore up and down that i wasnt aiming for you (despite aiming for manned water cannons at the time and screaming "GOT ONE!") i wouldnt be arrested for some assault-related crime?

"He CLAIMS to be just driving to work, but i know thats just a front for his evil greenhouse gas activities".
 
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No, they are pussies because they act all tough and pirate-ish, but whenever someone gets a minor cut or injury there is always a shot of some sea shepherd crew member crying silently, they act like thrown metal bolts are assault rifles, and they are VEGAN. Also saving the whales makes me respect you much less as a person as well, i even understand the intentions of people who slash SUV tires, it doesnt make you any less of a douche, but thats a lot more tangible than saving a completely unendangered animal just because it looks cool.

Ah, see I haven't watched the show so I don't know what they act like as people. I was commenting on them as an organization... more so, I was intending to comment on whaling itself since I don't know too much about how they function as a group, just that they're against whaling and are usually not entirely peaceful in getting their message across.
 
Sort of like the wiggers of the sea. They want to look cool with their pirate beanie hats, and hoodies. But when the Japs come out in riot gear with flash bangs they just look like douchebags in over their heads. If I was captain and they rammed my boat I would have no problem opening up fire on them.
 
I edited might post, might want to go back and read my addition.

Certainly.



Edit: Seriously man, I'd love to hear your counter-arguments (and that's not an ultimatum type thing, I'm curious). You were the one who said that these whalers should be allowed to do what they do because they're only killing a tiny percent of the total population. That's a fair point and it, coupled with the fact that minke whales are not near extinction makes many of the claims made by the detractors of whaling void.

But I made some other points... they are not doing this for commercial reasons as they claim, they accepted the moratorium set by the IWC on whaling, so no problem there. What we're left with then, is the research of whales... which brings me to the two main points of my earlier post: Why do they actually need to slaughter nearly 1,000 whales and where is the results and findings of these research? If any research is actually being carried out, will it benefit either the human race or the whale population? The Japanese have failed at demonstrating any benefits, which leads me to believe there is no point to it other than tradition and money.


I know your position comes from your heart and from a genuine desire not to take the life of other living things, and I really do understand why you feel that way. However, it's not a position I can accept from a logical standpoint. Frankly, human beings have been killing and eating things since the dawn of time and there's not actually anything wrong with that. To say "don't kill a small number of majestic whales" while being an integrated part of a social structure that routinely slaughters millions of cows, chickens, pigs, etc. has always seemed hypocritical to me. Yes, I think whales are amazing creatures and should be preserved as a species. I'm a huge supporter of conservation and try to work that into my daily life. However, I try to balance that with a logical analysis of populations and markets. Looking at the Japanese whaling industry from a commercial standpoint [as, really, that's what this is. The research aspect to me is a loophole that was left open for them intentionally. The whales are not killed for research and then dumped overboard to rot, they are harvested for a consumer product.] I can see that the number of whales killed is a miniscule fraction of the population and the product market rather limited and possibly shrinking. So, is the Japanese whaling driving the minke whale to endangerment? Absolutely not. As long as populations are monitored and harvests kept to sustainable levels, I have no qualms about whaling. The same holds true for any wild animal in my mind - as long as you're killing it for a legitimate purpose (see: eating) and you're taking care to have a limited impact on wild populations, all the more power to you. That's why we regulate our legal hunts on moose, deer, etc. in Canada, because we know that we can preserve the market for game meat while conserving the animal populations, if not allowing them to expand.

Taking that a step further, I absolutely do support the banning of certain animal/natural harvests where populations are threatened or in recession. Human consumption, especially for a luxury good, should never upstage the need to preserve animal populations. However, I do not support banning of such hunts on an emotional basis. Sure, you like whales, Bambi, whatever. So do I. But I don't think we should restrict people's hunting/gathering just because we think an animal happens to be cute/interesting. And really, we're already seeing a shift away from things like whale meat. The market seems to be shrinking, and if it shrinks enough it's no longer profitable and then there won't be any, and that's fine as well. They're not killing whales for fun, and if there's no money to be made they won't be harvesting any whales.

But at no point does any of this mean that it's a good or noble thing for a bunch of ill-informed assholes to jump in a big boat and go putting other people's lives at risk because they think a certain animal should be held protected above all others for no legitimate reason outside of the good ol' PETA mentality. No way.
 
I have no idea. Where I was trying to get at is this: if it's about a non-endangered species of whales like the minke, and some crowds live by pretty low standards in technical terms and therefore hunt minke whales for using them for food supply and producing other goods (don't know exactly what you can make out of a minke, but I think it serves for more than just meat), I am fine with them whaling.

Actually I owe the Sea Shepherd crew an apology, turns out they are against all whaling, even the so-called traditional whaling by indigenous groups.

With that being the case, I think they have a stronger position to argue their case than the people in here who try to support them yet find nothing wrong with their own citizens whaling.

As for how the animal is used, with any type of whaling nothing can be wasted.

A famous [Japanese] proverb quotes: "There's nothing to throw away from a whale except its voice."

You can't expect the Japanese government to do anything, even if they saw whaling as a problem they would never change things because whaling is part of Japanese tradition and they would never be re-elected if they banned it.

This is true. And the more they are attacked, the less likely they'll be to change things.

You also can't expect other governments to do anything because Japan is a powerful economic and military power and a first world country, so more or less an ally. So if there's any hope of anyone doing the right thing, it's these so-called hippies and environmentalists that most of you unfortunately seem to vehemently hate.

Japan is not a military power, in fact they have no military - it's forbidden in their constitution. They do have a Self Defence Force but they mainly rely on the US military who have bases in Japan which the Japanese Gov pays for.

As for no-one doing anything; when the moratorium was first introduced Japan objected and the US told them if they didn't withdraw their objection they would lose their fishing rights near Alaska. Japan withdrew their objection but the US closed the fishing areas anyway. <_<

Plus, even when you look at the facts of the whole whaling thing it makes no sense. It doesn't matter if they're only killing a tiny percentage of the whole whale population... they're killing wild living beings just to do research on them. It would make more sense to me if this was commercial whaling, since then there would be a point.

They kill hundreds of whales every year, so they can do such basic research as determining their age and the population of their species? This make no sense... these are not lab rats, but large and majestic wild animals which should not be killed for such bogus reasons. The Nazis would argue the same fact too... sacrifice a small number of people so we can learn more things about human physiology and advance medicine, therefore doing a greater good for humanity as a whole. :rolleyes:

Please people, don't just get into a huff whenever you see the words hippy or environmentalist somewhere... look at the facts and judge for yourself (and hopefully you're not getting your facts from a reality show). Research is one thing... but they're killing these whales in the hundreds for what exactly? Is their some kind of disease in the whale species they hope to cure or do they believe there's some hope to find the cure for cancer in these animals? There is no advantage for the animal population, and if you believe them that this isn't a commercial whaling business then there's no human advantages either. Then stop it already.

How many times do I have to say it? The research gives them the data needed to support their proposal to resume commercial whaling. The research is not done for the benefit of the whales - although the data improves our understanding of them most people would agree that non-lethal research is ideal if conservation is your goal.


But I made some other points... they are not doing this for commercial reasons as they claim, they accepted the moratorium set by the IWC on whaling, so no problem there. What we're left with then, is the research of whales... which brings me to the two main points of my earlier post: Why do they actually need to slaughter nearly 1,000 whales and where is the results and findings of these research? If any research is actually being carried out, will it benefit either the human race or the whale population? The Japanese have failed at demonstrating any benefits, which leads me to believe there is no point to it other than tradition and money.

As I said before, Japan did not accept the moratorium. They have been fighting to have it lifted for years, that is the point of the research. Maybe you should do some research, too.

And congratulations on being the first to use the word "majestic" in this thread. ;)

So if i threw glass bottles of buteric acid at your car as you were driving it (lets just say because i claimed you were killing polar bears with greenhouse gas), and swore up and down that i wasnt aiming for you (despite aiming for manned water cannons at the time and screaming "GOT ONE!") i wouldnt be arrested for some assault-related crime?

"He CLAIMS to be just driving to work, but i know thats just a front for his evil greenhouse gas activities".

Too true.
 
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