Question about a percieved racial slur

[JCE]

I need to set this up so please be patient with me. I'm currently like alot of people here a member of several other forums. On one of the forums someone posted a picture of a late 60's Mustang for sale that had an RB26DETT in it.

Picture:

Then I wrote:

I'd rock that no question.

Then someone else wrote:

OK but why not put a turbo on a 289, 302, 351C or a 429 SOHC that would have made a lot more power.

Then I wrote:

Actually the RB26DETT can have just as much if not more power than those Ford mills. Just listen to that car when he does the dragstrip--totally awsome.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPbSmKyxIgA

Then the topic went straight to F'ing hell.

The next reply:

what an f'ing disgrace. you just don't do something like that to an American muscle car. no way.

My response:

An engine is an engine. If it was affordable I'd stuff another brand's power mill under the hood of my Camaro, a Ford 302 infact. Its like getting a heart transplat from another stranger, you saying you don't WANT that heart just because it isn't your own blood? I don't see a problem with it.

A few posts later the same guy posted:

so its ok if he put a fart tip muffler on it too?

and putting a ricer engine in a muscle car is like getting a heart transplant from a pig instead of a human. just because it fits and you can make it work, doesnt mean you should!

Then I posted several pictures of Camaros, Firebirds/Trans-Ams and Corvettes with ricer style bodykits and wrote:

Your analogy about the heart is incorrect. An engine from one car to another is a human heart to a human heart. A PIG heart would be more like a 2 stroke engine from a lawn mower.

An engine cannot be "rice". The exterior bodywork and interior changes are what makes a car a ricer car, not the engine. Plus the RB series I6 engines are just as bulletproof as Ford V8's and GM V8's so you can't tell me it won't last either.

I guess these are ricer engines too eh? ...

HERE is where it gets interesting:

no its a ricer engine because its not an American engine, its ok to put the LT1/LS1's in older f-bodys just like it would be ok to put a Terminator motor in an older fox body, i for one DO have a problem when you take Jap **** and put it in an American car.

My response:

"Jap"? A bit racist aren't we? Ok so using your logic German engines are kraut and English engines are crumpets? And you don't like "Jap" in an American car? Then you'll not like the Japanese and Korean influence of Ford and GM the last 20 years. Which by the way includes but isn't limited to engines.

Seriously this is the 21st century get some tolerance.

Reading and hearing comments like some of these in here makes me want to put a non GM engine in my Camaro. If I had the money I would too.

Actually, Jap isn't exactly racist term. Jap was originally used as an abbreviation and only after WWII, the Japan-American's got upset over the usage of the word Jap; only then did this become a derogatory term. Not knowing 100% on what he meant, you can't always take it as negative.

an english engine??? thats just poppycock!!

as if landrover or jaguar were ever known for their engines... they are owned by an Indian company now anyways. Mini, Rolls Royce, and Bentley are now german, and Lotus is now owned by a Malaysian company and uses toyota engines.

i think all the british have left thats worth a damn is aston martin... and when your cheapest car is still over $100k, that hardly makes your engines something that the common man even looks at.

really then how is it the GM's SBC has stood the test of time and never reverted to anything none american? PUSHROD V8's are as AMERICAN as apple pie!

reading and hearing comments of how guys like you butcher your cars and keep them the way you do instead of taking care of them, makes me hate EVERY person who has damage on their cars or has it primed and not painted or thinks its ok to add things to it from different companys.

if you dont like they way it has come from factory then dont get it


also if you are so dead set on like JAP **** why dont you go buy it an stop acting like you are an AMERICAN. I buy American to SUPPORT my country

and if thats racist in your eyes i dont really give a **** JAP cars and JAP engines should stay together and not be cross breed into our AMERICAN HERITAGE AND HISTORY!

Then I let him have it:

"American heritage" you say?

No Japanese engines in American cars?

The Fusion is manufactured at Ford's Hermosillo Stamping & Assembly plant in Hermosillo, Sonora, Mexico, where the similar Mercury Milan and Lincoln MKZ are also built. All three cars are based on the CD3 platform shared with Mazda's Mazda6 (M/Y 2003-2008)[1] and were launched simultaneously into the market (the MKZ as the Zephyr).

Part 2.

The Impala name was resurrected for the 2000 model year to replace the Lumina. Based on the Lumina's W-body platform, it was built at Oshawa Car Assembly in Oshawa, Ontario, Canada. Unlike the earlier Impalas, this one was front-wheel drive and was available with a choice of two V6 engines.* A new Impala SS with a supercharged V6 was brought out for the 2004 model year.

*-V6 engines in Impala

Production of the 60? family began in China with the success of the Buick marque there. Importation of Chinese-built engines to the United States began in 2004 with the LNJ found in the Chevrolet Equinox.

Part 3.

The Chrysler 300 is based on the rear-wheel drive Chrysler LX platform which features components derived from the discontinued W210 Mercedes-Benz E-Class of 1996 to 2002. Such components include the suspension design, front seat frames, wiring harnesses, steering column, the 5-speed automatic's design, and a derivative of the 4Matic all-wheel drive system.

Assembly:
Brampton, Ontario, Canada,
Graz, Austria
Beijing, China

Pushrod V8's American made you say?

The 5.7 L Hemi is made at Chrysler's Saltillo Engine plant in Ramos Arizpe, Mexico.

Part 4.

1993 was the debut year for the fourth generation Camaro, and production continued until 2002. Production was moved from GM's Van Nuys, California, assembly plant to Boisbriand, Quebec, Canada in 1993.

Like the Chevrolet Camaro, the Fourth Generation Firebird and Trans Am were built in Sainte-Th?r?se, Quebec, and the plant closed down after producing the last F-body cars.

Part 5.

Following the development of the Zeta architecture and because of its position as the GM global center of RWD development, GM Holden led the final design, engineering, and development of the Camaro.[19] However, the new Camaro will be produced at the Oshawa Car Assembly manufacturing plant in Canada.[20]

Part 6.

The engines were first produced in Romeo, Michigan but additional capacity was added in Windsor, Ontario.

The 5.4 L is built in Windsor, Ontario at the Windsor Engine plant. The engine has been available in three different configurations since its 1997 introduction:

Part 7.

Holden chairman Denny Mooney announced that the G8 is imported from the Elizabeth plant in Adelaide, South Australia for the life cycle of the car, but refused to comment on possible future production at GM's Oshawa, Ontario facility.[9] At the 2007 Chicago Auto Show, GM Global Chairman Bob Lutz announced that the G8 was expected in US Pontiac dealerships in "early 2008".[10] On July 4, 2007 the first Pontiac G8 prototypes rolled out of the Elizabeth assembly plant in Australia.[11][12] General production began December 18, 2007.[1]

Assembly:
Elizabeth, South Australia, Australia

I proved my point. Grow up and get some tolerance and learn about your "American heritage" and "American products". NOTHING IS COMPLETELY MADE IN AMERICA ANYMORE.

You want an all American car with an all American pushrod V8? There's a knock at the door, hey its 1968! I'm done with this.

========================================

So the point of this thread is this, is "Jap" an actual racist term, a precieved racist term or just a word.

I invite anyone to respond as long as it is civil and ontopic to the discussion. If you want a link to the originating topic please PM me. I won't make it public. And I ask that you do not register to start trouble.

 

[Topgearfanatic]

I think when the word is conjoined with crap it is automatically racists, Jap alone is perfectly fine.

 

[flydiscovery]

Sorry but I don't have the patience to go through all that. In the US the word "Jap" is most certainly never used in polite conversation. I have never once heard it used in any way that could be loosely construed as polite. Because racist vocabulary offends me, I see no reason to split the hair between "actual" racism and "perceived" racism. I see no difference in these two concepts.

 

[JCE]

Because racist vocabulary offends me, I see no reason to split the hair between "actual" racism and "perceived" racism. I see no difference in these two concepts.

I agree 100% actually.

 

[bartboy9891]

I wouldn't call a Japanese person a Jap, but I don't think it's considered a racist term anymore. Most of those guys sound pretty confused.

 

[brydie76]

I think that it entirely relies on the context it was used in. Of course if you use "jap" as an adjective for something derogatory, that is racist (eg "that jap bastard tried to rip me off" won't go down well with anybody.) But I have heard and used the term "jap-engine/d" to describe old suzuki swifts or Holden barinas that have had theiroriginal engines replaced at 100 000 kms by engines from swifts in japan that have done 50000 kms at no more than 40 km/h. So in that context it is describing a Japanese motor literally and not intended to be racist.

I wouldn't use it except in the latter context anyway, and that's only because I own a Suzuki swift. I don't see any point to talk about the nationality of anything or anybody in a negative context anyway- it never has any bearing on stuff for me.

 

[nist7]

Because racist vocabulary offends me, I see no reason to split the hair between "actual" racism and "perceived" racism. I see no difference in these two concepts.

Agreed.

This seems like a typical American-centric forum. I saw a similar thread on an SVT forum that I sometimes frequent and they spout the exact same points...where anything Japanese are rice and Europeans are snobby pussies with more money than brains.

These simpletons fail to realize that the globalization of the various economies of the world means that there's no such as thing as just "supporting your economy." And the large and established presence of foreign brands contributes to the American economy in a big way as well in terms of jobs for the workers on the plants, the truck drivers delivering parts and cars, the tire dealers/companies, the car dealers, the repair shops, the American banks, etc. etc.

You should've also linked the 2009 Cars.com American-Made Index. Toyota Camry was #1 and so was 4 additional "Jap cars." :lol: http://www.cars.com/go/advice/Story...ct=ami&story=amMade0709&referer=&aff=national

 

[Ramseus]

Jesus christ monkey balls, why would you start a thread by quoting an entire thread from another forum that 99.9999% has nothing to do with the new thread you're starting? What the hell's your point anyways, you're clearly on a forum full of dipshit rednecks.

And jap isn't racist, slant is.

 

[flydiscovery]

But I have heard and used the term "jap-engine/d" to describe old suzuki swifts or Holden barinas that have had theiroriginal engines replaced at 100 000 kms by engines from swifts in japan that have done 50000 kms at no more than 40 km/h. So in that context it is describing a Japanese motor literally and not intended to be racist.

I would imagine this is a highly specialized situation. I can see how in this instance the word is being used as a factual abbreviation, but unless I was paying per letter (i.e. a classified), I'd likely still not use it.

 

[JCE]

Jesus christ monkey balls, why would you start a thread by quoting an entire thread from another forum that 99.9999% has nothing to do with the new thread you're starting? What the hell's your point anyways, you're clearly on a forum full of dipshit rednecks.

And jap isn't racist, slant is.

I was trying to setup the situation. Sorry its a long read. :?

 

[Susurrate]

TLDR

Racism? Welcome to the internet.

 

[brydie76]

I would imagine this is a highly specialized situation. I can see how in this instance the word is being used as a factual abbreviation, but unless I was paying per letter (i.e. a classified), I'd likely still not use it.

Yeah, I only use it to explain the situation behind my type of car to people, and even then only really fanatical Aussie revheads/mechanicas seem to get it, and i still end up explaining the term because they don't get the point half the time and I want to make sure people know what I mean.


Topic has come up a few times actually, because a non-jap-engined Suzuki/Holden Swift around and still running is quite rare in my area. The mechanics around here like to persuade people into swapping out their engines quite a lot actually....

(off topic, but my car has almost 180 000 kms on the odometer and still has its original engine- the only one I can find that does )

 

[Dogbert]

Okay, lets look at it this way; is there any time where you could use the word "jap" in a positive tone where it wouldn't sound racist?

"Wow, look at that jap go!"

"Hey, that jap did a pretty good job."

"Did you see that jap that was checking me out? She was pretty hot."


Nope. It's racist. I don't think it's offensive when talking about something, but someone would definitely take offense.

 

[flydiscovery]

Yeah, I only use it to explain the situation behind my type of car to people, and even then only really fanatical Aussie revheads/mechanicas seem to get it, and i still end up explaining the term because they don't get the point half the time and I want to make sure people know what I mean.


Topic has come up a few times actually, because a non-jap-engined Suzuki/Holden Swift around and still running is quite rare in my area. The mechanics around here like to persuade people into swapping out their engines quite a lot actually....

(off topic, but my car has almost 180 000 kms on the odometer and still has its original engine- the only one I can find that does )

I wonder if there is also some cultural bias attached? I never know how words are used in other countries but in the US this one is closely tied with returning GIs (see below).

Okay, lets look at it this way; is there any time where you could use the word "jap" in a positive tone where it wouldn't sound racist?

"Wow, look at that jap go!"

"Hey, that jap did a pretty good job."

"Did you see that jap that was checking me out? She was pretty hot."


Nope. It's racist. I don't think it's offensive when talking about something, but someone would definitely take offense.

Sorry, I think it's still offensive there. In the US the word was adopted almost exclusively by returning GIs and those involved with the internment process during WWII. The history of the use of the word cannot be detached from the word itself. Just because you use a racist word and attach 'good' to it doesn't mean it's any less racist. I'm sorry but you could put the n word in every single one of those sentences and it doesn't change that word so why would it change this one? It's so easy to choose a polite word that I can't see why it's such a problem.

I only recently in life learned the etiology of the word "gyp" (mostly because I'd never seen it written down and thought it was spelled jip). Took me a grand total of 2 seconds to change my mindset and never use it again. It's easy to be nice really.

 

[Dogbert]

I'm sorry but you could put the n word in every single one of those sentences and it doesn't change that word so why would it change this one?

You know you're actually agreeing with me, right?

 

[Ramseus]

......It's so easy to choose a polite word that I can't see why it's such a problem.

A polite word?! A mother fucking cock sucking piece of shit polite word?! Muh-ther fucker. [/Penn Jillette mode off]


While it is course and not namby pamby politically correct pussy footed weasel english, "I didn't know James was a Jap" isn't really offensive unless you're the pain in the ass overly sensitive politically correct type, on the other hand "James is a fucking Jap" is not nice at all.

 

[thedguy]

So far the only REAL issue here is... that its got an RB20det in it, not an RB26DET(T).

Oh and if you want to really piss them off... http://www.automotivedigest.com/content/displayArticle.aspx?a=34089

http://online.wsj.com/public/articl...whlcBMUBXo_20060609.html?mod=tff_main_tff_top

You'll be surprised to find that the Miata has a large amount of American design and engineering in it (the cars creation came about because an American Journalist who went to work for Mazda USA harped to the President about the demise of British sports cars).

All the Nissan Z cars were designed by studio's in California, intended specifically for the American market.


As far as the Jap thing goes, I've always heard people use "Jap Crap" though mostly as it rhymes. I'm sure some mean it as a racial slur. Jap, at least in the US, is a racial slur.

 

[CAPT_Howdy]

My rule of thumb is; if you would say it to a person's face, then it's not a racist word.

And FCE, I get ya about what is an "American" car nowadays. My 1990 Buick Regal was built in Ontario, Canada, yet was considered an American car. My friend's Camry was built in Georgetown, Kentucky and was considered a Japanese car. Go figure.

I wonder what those rednecks think about the fact that their precious Camaro was built in Ste Therese, Quebec, by French-Canadians, no less!

Edit: No, I'm not disparaging French-Canadians. I'm part French-Canadian myself. But for a certain type of American, the French are almost as despised and reviled as much as Al-Quaida.

 

[klankymen]

jap is just the first syllable of japanese. I call japanese cars jap cars, I call American cars yank cars, it's shorter, end of story. It's your own damn fault if you make the adjective to your country have so many damn syllables. If you called it british or german, nobody would have to abbreviate it.

Edit: No, I'm not disparaging French-Canadians. I'm part French-Canadian myself. But for a certain type of American, the French are almost as despised and reviled as much as Al-Quaida.

Isn't everybody comparing Obama to Hitler nowadays? How long until he invades France?

 

[thedguy]

My rule of thumb is; if you would say it to a person's face, then it's not a racist word.

And FCE, I get ya about what is an "American" car nowadays. My 1990 Buick Regal was built in Ontario, Canada, yet was considered an American car. My friend's Camry was built in Georgetown, Kentucky and was considered a Japanese car. Go figure.

I used to be in a house with 2 American made vehicles, and 1 German. A BMW, a Nissan Sentra, and a Toyota Tacoma.