Lexus about to have the piss sued out of them over some floor mats. Seriously.

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Blind_Io

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http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2009/aug/31/bn31chp-lexus-crash/

SAN DIEGO ? A fiery crash that killed a California Highway Patrol officer and three family members continues to raise questions as investigators try to determine whether their loaner car's accelerator stuck and what ? if anything ? could have prevented Friday's tragedy.
The 2009 Lexus ES 350 came from Bob Baker Lexus El Cajon, where CHP officer Mark Saylor of Chula Vista had dropped off his regular vehicle for servicing.

Toyota, which makes Lexus cars, had recalled the ?all weather? floor mats in its 2008 version of that car model because of complaints about them sliding forward and jamming the accelerator. A sales manager at Bob Baker Lexus said he wasn't sure which mats were in the Lexus loaned to Saylor.
On Monday, Toyota issued a statement saying the company is deeply sorry to hear about the Saylor incident.

?We are unable to comment on this tragic accident until all the facts are known,? the statement said. ?It is important to avoid speculation and allow any investigation to run its course.?

It's not known whether Saylor, a 19-year CHP officer whose job entails vehicle safety inspections, tried to shut off the engine or put the car in neutral ? the two most common ways to slow down a vehicle with a stuck accelerator.

Car experts said it's not always that simple.
An electrical or mechanical failure could have made it impossible to shift into neutral, said Daniel Vomhof III, a vehicle accident reconstructionist with La Mesa-based Expert Witness Services.

Shutting off the engine also can be tricky because most modern vehicles will then lock the steering wheel, leaving the driver unable to steer, Vomhof said.

Asked if drivers have a third option, he replied: ?Pray a lot.?
Another complication: A report by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration found that some Lexus drivers with stuck accelerators tried to turn off the car with the engine control button but didn't know the button must be held for three seconds.

The agency's researchers recorded seven crashes, 12 injuries and 40 complaints involving the recalled floor mats in Toyota vehicles.
They also said that when the throttle pedal is fully open unintentionally, some drivers react by hitting the brakes multiple times. This action depletes the vehicle's vacuum-based power assist, and without that assistance, the brakes must be applied with much more force. Continued driving in that manner can result in overheating the brakes, further diminishing their effectiveness.

Toyota acknowledged the complaints and created new instructions for installing the mats properly. There have been no recalls of the 2009 ES 350, the traffic safety administration said.

On Friday, someone in the Saylors' Lexus called 911 just after 6:30 p.m. to report the stuck accelerator. Witnesses said the car was traveling northbound on state Route 125 in Santee at more than 100 mph when it entered a T-intersection with Mission Gorge Road.

The vehicle slammed into the rear end of a Ford Explorer and then plowed over a curb and through a fence before hitting an embankment and going airborne. It rolled several times before stopping and bursting into flames in the nearby San Diego River basin.

The CHP said those killed were Saylor, 45; his wife, Cleofe, 45; his daughter, Mahala, 13; and his brother-in-law, Chris Lastrella, 38.
The accident was a wake-up call for some Lexus owners.

Marcelle Khalil of Del Mar, a pharmacist who drives a 2006 Lexus GS 300, said she had a problem with her accelerator two weeks ago. It stuck as she drove into her employer's parking lot and she narrowly missed a truck before slamming into a curb.

Khalil said she was positive she didn't step on the gas instead of the brake, but began to doubt herself until she read about the Saylors.

?This could happen to anybody,? she said. ?I'm scared to drive my car.?
Blair Carter, a sales manager at Bob Baker Lexus, said ?our hearts sunk when we heard? about Friday's accident.

He said the vehicle had a double redundant fail-safe system that should have shut the car off if there were a major malfunction, and that he had never heard of a situation in which the accelerator was stuck and the car couldn't be stopped.

?I would get in any of our cars today with my family and drive to Maine,? Carter said.
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:blink:
 
This, boys and girls, is why throttle by wire sucks. Can't tell if it was the mats or a software failure. :p

On the other hand, you should be able to override the engine with the brakes at any time in a modern car. If you engine starts running away and you just barely manage to get the car under control with the brakes, pull over and STOP trying to drive it.
 
I don't know about cars in other countries, but here, the steering wheel lock doesn't come on as long as you don't pull the key out of the lock, so as long as you just turn off the engine by turning it, you're safe. The report says otherwise... :hmm:
 
This is one of the other reason I don't like automatics, especially newer ones, you can't force them to engine brake, and some won't let you into neutral at certain times. I like that my sticks can always be popped into neutral at the flick of a wrist.

Spectre said:
This, boys and girls, is why throttle by wire sucks. Can't tell if it was the mats or a software failure. :p

On the other hand, you should be able to override the engine with the brakes at any time in a modern car. If you engine starts running away and you just barely manage to get the car under control with the brakes, pull over and STOP trying to drive it.
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I can't wait for Ford to start using "brake by wire" combined with "Microsoft Sync!" There is a car that I'll add to the "do not upgrade me to list" for rental cars.

the Interceptor said:
I don't know about cars in other countries, but here, the steering wheel lock doesn't come on as long as you don't pull the key out of the lock, so as long as you just turn off the engine by turning it, you're safe. The report says otherwise... :hmm:
Click to expand...

Most newer cars I've driven are like that, but some older ones will lock if you turn the ignition far enough to kill the engine. Doesn't mean you can't kill it and turn the key back to the on position to release the wheel.
 
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thedguy said:
Most newer cars I've driven are like that, but some older ones will lock if you turn the ignition far enough to kill the engine. Doesn't mean you can't kill it and turn the key back to the on position to release the wheel.
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From my experience, if the ignition is on, you can turn the wheel, but lose the power steering (which is not as bad as a runaway engine, of course). But i don't really know if that's a possibility with modern cars that are not even started with the ignition key, but some start/stop button which has to be held for three seconds for some reason.

As you said, a manual is full of win in a situation like that. My Kadett's accelerator cable for some time had a tendency to get stuck at 3/4 throttle, so i was quite happy to be able to simply "neutralize" the runaway engine until some shouting and kicking on the pedal got it loose again.
 
Just depress the clutch. Oh wait, these don't exist in America, do they?
 
Is it only me who thinks it's strange that such things only happen in America?
 
MacGuffin said:
Is it only me who thinks it's strange that such things only happen in America?
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The fact that things go catastrophically wrong, the fact that many drivers are idiots, or the fact that a lawsuit was filed? :p
 
MacGuffin said:
Is it only me who thinks it's strange that such things only happen in America?
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there have been a few cases in france, but each of them was disproven so the drivers had to admit they just were speeding and thought it was an easy way to get out of a ticket :lol:
 
Unfortunately, finding a manual in America is getting harder and harder. Most Lexus cars are automatics. My friend got an IS350 automatic, and I made fun of him. It seems you can get an IS250 in a manual, but not an IS350. Its lame. I had to find my car with a manual.

I see how a floormat can open a throttle. It can also slide up and prevent use of the brake pedal. Thats why, in autocross, we require floormats to be removed to prevent just such an occurrence.
 
Spectre said:
The fact that things go catastrophically wrong, the fact that many drivers are idiots, or the fact that a lawsuit was filed? :p
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Yes :D
 
I also find it odd that Lexus doesn't use a drive-by-wire system where the throttle isn't actually connected to the throttle cable.
 
Spectre said:
On the other hand, you should be able to override the engine with the brakes at any time in a modern car. If you engine starts running away and you just barely manage to get the car under control with the brakes, pull over and STOP trying to drive it.
Click to expand...

I had my throttle stick on me a couple years ago and that's what I did.

I was cruising at around 80 and noticed the car didn't slow down when I let off the gas. I braked a little and it accelerated back up to 80. Realizing what was going on, I just braked down to around 20-30 (with the car in gear, I didn't think to put it in N), shut it off and kept on the brake until it was completely stopped on the shoulder of the road. The final part could be difficult for a small person since the brakes and steering get REALLY heavy without power assist.
 
sonza68 said:
I had my throttle stick on me a couple years ago and that's what I did.

I was cruising at around 80 and noticed the car didn't slow down when I let off the gas. I braked a little and it accelerated back up to 80. Realizing what was going on, I just braked down to around 20-30 (with the car in gear, I didn't think to put it in N), shut it off and kept on the brake until it was completely stopped on the shoulder of the road. The final part could be difficult for a small person since the brakes and steering get REALLY heavy without power assist.
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For this, manual handbrake. :)
 
My handbrake barely holds the car on a slope, it isn't going to stop the car from 80mph with the engine working against it.
 
The problem with using the handbrake is that it only works on the back wheels. In a situation like this, many drivers would panic and yank on that thing as hard as they could which will lock of the rear and make a bad situation worse.
 
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