Official Discussion Thread of the 2009 Formula 1 Season

What does the equity-type buyout mean?
 
What does the equity-type buyout mean?

As far as i understand, it means that they will just buy a part of the team to participate in profits and losses, but not take control of the team in any way... participating financially without influencing the team.

EDIT: In other words, they found a way to put their star on Brawn's cars without questioning McLaren being their only factory team.
 
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So they're like CEO? Sorry, I'm not good at finance related stuff at all.
 
So they're like CEO? Sorry, I'm not good at finance related stuff at all.

Exactely the opposite. They'll simply invest money in Brawn (thus making the team "Mercedes" enough to put the star on the cars) and get a share in whatever profits they will be (as it's a F1 team, none). As they won't intervene with the day-to-day business, it still won't be a factory team, even if a siginficant share of it would be factory-owned.
 
Ahh... ok! I get it. Only financial investment, no decision making. Couldn't they threaten stuff like "do this or do that or we'll withdraw funding?" Isn't that decision making as well?
 
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/78399


So F1 might be on its way to becoming Formula Mercedes-Benz. :lol:

Fuck it's making me sick. I blame it partly on Mercedes's success, but mainly on the freeze of F1 engine development. The idea of all Cosworth engine grid was ridiculous as well. This is not good for the sport.

Bring back Michelin, Pirelli and Goodyear. Bring back the good old Honda engine. I hate standardised machinery and components. :(
 
ALONSO IS RED?!

ALONSO IS RED?!

Ahh... ok! I get it. Only financial investment, no decision making. Couldn't they threaten stuff like "do this or do that or we'll withdraw funding?" Isn't that decision making as well?

No, think of equity like stock. They are simply buying a share or part of the company BGP. So they gain when Brawn gains. All this as all things in F1 will be of course in a giant convoluted contract that will stipulate that MBZ is in it for a certain period of time, not being able to sell their equity until a contractual length has gone out. This is probably in lieu of a guaranteed longterm engine deal that Brawn may have wanted. Thus no fee for a customer engine.. for Brawn and a Stake for MBZ.

Also anyone see the Santander/Ferrari announcement???! What will happen to Kimi!?! Oh gosh I hope he stays in F1. I don't see him in renault as has been speculated though..
 
Williams opposed to three-car teams

Tuesday, 08 September 2009 18:30

Three-car Formula 1 teams would ?not be healthy? for the competitiveness of the sport, according to Sir Frank Williams.

The prospect of teams running a third car in the 2010 season was first publicly raised by Ferrari president Luca di Montezemolo last month, who revealed that the Scuderia was ?continuing to fight until every team has the right to start with three cars in the next season?.

Ferrari team principal Stefano Domenicali then repeated that stance at the last round in Belgium, saying that Michael Schumacher could even fill a third car next season should he have recovered from the neck injuries that scuppered his recent comeback bid.

?We feel it is for the benefit of Formula 1 and it is better to make sure the biggest teams have three cars because that's what people want,? Domenicali told The Times newspaper at Spa.

"With all respect to the smaller teams, the value of Formula 1 is to have good drivers, great personalities, in good cars and with a great brand,"

However, independent team owner Williams feels three-car teams would be bad route for the sport to go down.

He believes that the prospect of a couple of major manufacturer teams running three cars that were all competitive would only result in the front of the grid being locked out for the rest of the field.

?If you have two or three elite teams with great resources and almost unbeatable cars, they will occupy the first 4? rows on the grid," Williams was quoted as saying by the Daily Telegraph.

"If you're team number five in the pecking order you have no chance of getting near the front of a grid.

?It's not healthy."

Williams?s opposition to third cars could again bring the Grove-based team into confrontation with Ferrari, the two teams having already clashed last month when Williams, along with the Red Bull outfits, blocked the Scuderia?s request to grant special dispensation to allow Schumacher to test its current car.

Looking back at the episode which saw Ferrari accuse his team as lacking fair play, Williams stressed that his outfit had simply wanted all teams to abide by the rules that had previously been agreed.

"Those are the rules and the rules are put together with more force and authority by the manufacturers than by teams like Williams," he said.

"We've signed up to those rules and we expect all parties who are signed up to honour their signatures."

Nevertheless despite its run-in with Ferrari, Williams says he expects his team?s membership of the Formula One Teams? Association to be reinstated "sooner rather than later" after it was suspended from the team?s body earlier in the year after breaking ranks and signing up to the 2010 F1 season unconditionally.
http://www.itv-f1.com/news_article.aspx?id=46811

I'm with him on this, I don't like the idea...
 
At this very moment there's no need for 3rd cars, next season, however, or for the 2011 one, that might be necessary, as there's a good chance Renault, Toyota and India will pull out, BMW will be long gone, and new teams will probably have the hardest time scraping for funds, so there might be 7 teams left.
 
At this very moment there's no need for 3rd cars, next season, however, or for the 2011 one, that might be necessary, as there's a good chance Renault, Toyota and India will pull out, BMW will be long gone, and new teams will probably have the hardest time scraping for funds, so there might be 7 teams left.

The rumors about Toyota pulling out have long been denied - and Force India? It's the first time i hear about them leaving.
 
I can confirm that Force India will stick around at least for the first Indian GP.
 
That's a bad idea.
1) Cost
2) The sheer mess in the first turn and in the pits
3) The lack of fair competition
4) No point

Frankly, I think the only reason Ferrari is doing this is because they want Schumacher back in.
 
Frankly, I think the only reason Ferrari is doing this is because they want Schumacher back in.

I think Massa said something like "Schumacher will definitely not return" in a interview the other day, but i lost the link...
 
If F1 really wants teams to have 2+ cars than do what NASCAR does: teams can have anywhere from 1-4 cars. Small teams can have one car, bigger teams 4. As far as the WCC goes, only have 2 of the drivers qualify for the points towards constructor points. It'd make things interesting.

The thing is, I'm pretty sure F1 doesn't want that. Not to mention the only team I see wanting it is Ferrari. Maybe McLaren, but that's it.
 
If F1 really wants teams to have 2+ cars than do what NASCAR does: teams can have anywhere from 1-4 cars. Small teams can have one car
...as it used to be up to 1991, when tail-end tiddlers like Osella, Coloni and Rial ran one car, presumably because they couldn't afford a second. For 1992 all teams had to run two cars.

You'd have to dig further back into the 1980s for the last time any team ran three cars. Off the top of my head I think it was that one-off race (the 1985 German GP) where Renault ran Fran?ois Hesnault as a third (non-points-scoring) car just so they could test their new-fangled on-board camera (which was the size of a brick).

Do I see a Romanian teenager approaching to correct me on that last point...
 
You'd have to dig further back into the 1980s for the last time any team ran three cars. Off the top of my head I think it was that one-off race (the 1985 German GP) where Renault ran Fran?ois Hesnault as a third (non-points-scoring) car just so they could test their new-fangled on-board camera (which was the size of a brick).

Do I see a Romanian teenager approaching to correct me on that last point...

:lol::lol::lol: No, I believe you're absolutely right on the three-car bit. I'm a bit reticent to post stuff like this now after I got a bollocking from another forum member.
 
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Williams and Force India rejoin FOTA

By Matt Beer Wednesday, September 9th 2009, 14:48 GMT

Kazuki Nakajima, Williams and Adrian Sutil, Force India, Spa 2009Williams and Force India have been re-admitted into the Formula One Teams' Association (FOTA) in a meeting at Monza today.

The two squads had had their membership of the teams' body suspended in May when they broke ranks with the rest of FOTA and entered the 2010 world championship before the FIA's initial deadline. The move came at the height of tensions between the FIA and FOTA over future regulations, and when the prospect of a breakaway series remained very real.

A resolution between the governing body and FOTA was subsequently reached, and today it was announced that Williams and Force India would rejoin the rest of the current field in the teams' group.

FOTA also reiterated that the door was open for 2010 entrants Team US F1, Manor and Campos to join the organisation. US F1 has already applied to become part of FOTA.

"FOTA re-affirmed that all teams competing in Formula One are able to join the association," said a statement. "FOTA therefore welcomes back into full membership both Williams and Force India.

"The Executive Committee also looks forward to welcoming the new entrants to join the association whilst they continue to prepare for next year's championship."

At the meeting FOTA also resolved to begin discussions with Bernie Ecclestone over the future shape of F1 beyond 2012, when the deal agreed to avert a breakaway expires, and to continue its efforts to increase F1's appeal to fans.

"The FOTA Executive Committee looks forward to working with the FIA and Commercial Rights Holder to promote a healthy, dynamic and sustainable sport," said the statement. "To this end, FOTA intends to now enter into open discussion with the Commercial Rights Holder with the wish to confirm arrangements beyond 2012.

"Furthermore, FOTA will now arrange a seminar, open to representatives of the major stakeholders (including Media, Sponsors and Promoters), to discuss how working together we can develop the show creating a more attractive spectacle for the fans."
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/78444

On the one hand, this is good. On the other hand, teams shouldn't just be able to leave and rejoin when they don't agree...that kind of defeats the purpose...
 
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