Random Thoughts... [Automotive Edition]

No, it didn't come with a manual. Doesn't bother me.
The I6 autos weren't perfect, but they hold up to the I6 just fine. The V8 ones were perfectly good.
D44 axles are perfectly fine until you hit 35" tires. By that point you should be running an 8.8 and a 30HP anyway.
What? The 242HD is considered only under the Atlas cases in terms of strength. So, no.
That's nice if that's important. It hasn't been mentioned yet.
WJ came with LSD's front and rear on the Overland. Throwing Aussie lockers into the Danas is a piece of cake if you really feel the need.
X: What's a suspension lift more than 3.5"? A novice can throw a 6.5" long-arm kit on a WJ with no problems at all, and probably for about the same price as the 3.5" Xterra kit. Suspension lift > body lift.

Suspension lifts > body lift right up until the point you discover what raising your center of gravity 6.5 inches does when you're traversing the side of a 45 degree hill. Or get up on a rock.... and then over you go onto your roof while all the guys in Nissans with "3+3" lifts laugh their asses off at you. Then one of them has to come winch or tow your Jeep back upright.

The D44s they put in ZJs and WJs are the "light duty" version and only a little stronger than the base Dana 35s. The H233B and its descendants are one hell of a lot stronger - so much so that breaking one offroad without 37" or bigger tires (or 35's combined with 5.14 gears and a seriously built motor) is unheard of.

The 242 is a decent case, but not all of them got the 242, now, did they? The TX10 series is on par with the stronger-than-242 NP231 and it's lighter than the 242 as well. The only disadvantage is that aftermarket support for the TX is smaller than the 242 or 231.

LSD < electronic locker. Sure, you can throw aftermarket lockers into the WJ, but then you can do the same thing with the XTerra. No advantage for the Jeep overall, and a big loss for the Jeep in initial cost vice capability.

In order to get a WJ to the point where it is really competitive with the XTerra, you end up spending an awful lot of additional money, not to mention the fact that the WJ is statistically less reliable anyway. It's just that the Jeep that best matches up to the XTerra isn't the Grand Cherokee, but the Wrangler.
 
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Don't forget that I bought the Off Road model X-Terra, with Blistin shocks, upgraded springs and a locking rear diff. So my X came stock with one of the things you have to add to the Jeep.
 
Hey, can you Solid Axel Swap the Grand the way you can with the X? Also, I call bullshit on the 3.5" lift limit. Calmini makes a 5" kit for the X - found it in about 5 seconds with Google.

Yup, you can SAS the Grand. They steal the axles from IIRC a Grand Wagoneer to do it.

And yes, the XTerra has 5" lifts available, plus 2/3/4" body lifts. So if you want to build a ridiculously tall Xterra, you can.

But most people do a 3+3 in the Nissan world.
 
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I'll probably stick to 3" That should be more than enough for my needs. The big thing will be upgrading the suspension so I can haul heavier loads over rough terrain without messing up the springs.
 
Suspension lifts > body lift right up until the point you discover what raising your center of gravity 6.5 inches does when you're traversing the side of a 45 degree hill. Or get up on a rock.... and then over you go onto your roof while all the guys in Nissans with "3+3" lifts laugh their asses off at you. Then one of them has to come winch or tow your Jeep back upright.

If you're rock crawling, your suspension articulation is going to keep your COG lower than a body lift would. That body lift isn't going to help when you've hit max flex and your chassis starts leaning, while the guy with way more suspension travel hasn't even hit bumpstops yet. Plus, that IFS isn't going to be helping there any, is it.

As for hills? Learn to drive.

The D44s they put in ZJs and WJs are the "light duty" version and only a little stronger than the base Dana 35s. The H233B and its descendants are one hell of a lot stronger - so much so that breaking one offroad without 37" or bigger tires (or 35's combined with 5.14 gears and a seriously built motor) is unheard of.

The D44A was a LOT stronger than the D35, and you're going to be wrecking axle shafts long before you shit spiders.

The 242 is a decent case, but not all of them got the 242, now, did they? The TX10 series is on par with the stronger-than-242 NP231 and it's lighter than the 242 as well. The only disadvantage is that aftermarket support for the TX is smaller than the 242 or 231.

None of the WJ Overlands got the 242, they had the 242HD which was even stronger than the 231 and retained the 242 aftermarket. It's damn near unkillable, even more so than the 231 and TX.

LSD < electronic locker. Sure, you can throw aftermarket lockers into the WJ, but then you can do the same thing with the XTerra. No advantage for the Jeep overall, and a big loss for the Jeep in initial cost vice capability.

The XTerra never came with a front locker, only a rear, so you get 3WD in a worst-case scenario compared to the worst-case 4WD the Jeep had the capability for stock-for-stock. It's a wash.

In order to get a WJ to the point where it is really competitive with the XTerra, you end up spending an awful lot of additional money, not to mention the fact that the WJ is statistically less reliable anyway. It's just that the Jeep that best matches up to the XTerra isn't the Grand Cherokee, but the Wrangler.

As we can see, that's not really the case. They each have solid offroad credentials, but they're designed differently. Solid axle/coils vs IFS and leaves, etc. My argument isn't that the WJ is somehow magically better, it's that they're very comparable vehicles with about equal potential.


Hey, can you Solid Axel Swap the Grand the way you can with the X? Also, I call bullshit on the 3.5" lift limit. Calmini makes a 5" kit for the X - found it in about 5 seconds with Google.

Not sure if you can SAS the WK, I was never really all that interested in the WK.

I've head nothing but bad things about Calmini, but 5" is 5". Can you run long-arms on the X? I can't imagine jacking up 5" on stock gear.
 
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If you're rock crawling, your suspension articulation is going to keep your COG lower than a body lift would. That body lift isn't going to help when you've hit max flex and your chassis starts leaning, while the guy with way more suspension travel hasn't even hit bumpstops yet. Plus, that IFS isn't going to be helping there any, is it.

As for hills? Learn to drive.

Tell that to your fellow Jeepers that drive GCs. They seem to demonstrate their inability to drive every damn time I go offroad with some of them. :p

As for the IFS... it gets dogged a lot, but it's really funny when those "eeewww, IFS" nearly stock Xterras and WD21/R51 Pathfinders blaze through trails that even modded Wranglers hesitate on. Nissan knew what they were doing. (And even the Jeepers at Moab admit this. :D)

The D44A was a LOT stronger than the D35, and you're going to be wrecking axle shafts long before you shit spiders.

Not really, they put the D44A in the arse end of the Titan when it first came out and it would get chewed to ribbons. Under the same conditions and with the same engine in the R51 Pathfinder, the Nissan axle didn't grenade. Ergo, the Nissan axles are therefore stronger than the D44A.


None of the WJ Overlands got the 242, they had the 242HD which was even stronger than the 231 and retained the 242 aftermarket. It's damn near unkillable, even more so than the 231 and TX.

Is that why my local transmission center rebuilds so many 242HDs, then? :p And if it is so good, why does everyone who offroads with the WJ seem to want an Atlas?


The XTerra never came with a front locker, only a rear, so you get 3WD in a worst-case scenario compared to the worst-case 4WD the Jeep had the capability for stock-for-stock. It's a wash.

XTerras could come with a front limited slip and of course the rear electronic locker. Advantage XTerra.


As we can see, that's not really the case. They each have solid offroad credentials, but they're designed differently. Solid axle/coils vs IFS and leaves, etc. My argument isn't that the WJ is somehow magically better, it's that they're very comparable vehicles with about equal potential.

Only if you pour money into the Jeep. Again, the more comparable model is the Pathfinder, which has similar potential but must also have money put into it to equal the XTerra on paper.

I've head nothing but bad things about Calmini, but 5" is 5". Can you run long-arms on the X? I can't imagine jacking up 5" on stock gear.

Yup, you can run long-arms kits from the Titan on the 05-up X, earlier models have options available as well. And if you jack up the XTerra 5" on the suspension, you do have to do something with the steering, but that's about it, IIRC.

See: http://www.alpinetribe.com/my_xterra.htm
 
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I'm going to start by saying that I've read this entire discussion, and I'm pretty sure it's a rock/hardplace.

But anyways,

I really like both the X and the WJ. My bias is obviously with the Jeep considering I drove one for about a year and a half. Spectre, I don't know who you wheel with or what sort of trails you do, but my WJ was plenty capable, even though I never had anything over allseasons on it. In my experiences credit goes where credit is due, and that certainly isn't (or wasn't at the time, rather) my driving offroad skill. The WJ IS a capable 4x4.

Also, I'm pretty sure (I'm to lazy to check the numbers, but from looking at the vehicle design) the Jeep has a better Approach and departure angle than the X.

All of this being said, I'm sure hte X is also very good. But I've had no experience with it. The closest I've come is a 1989 Pathfinder, and that's a pretty big longshot.

I apologize if this post was confusing/rambling/riddled with spelling errors. I'm tired.
 
Nobody is saying that the WJ blows off road or that it's not capable. It is - but it's not as capable as the Wrangler Rubicon or the XTerra Offroad out of the box. BCS is the one claiming it's in the same class, and IMHO it's not.

IIRC, the Jeep has a better approach angle and a worse departure angle than the X, but the X has a better breakover.
 
Am I nuts for thinking that if I get promoted to being salaried at work, I should get a license and then figure out if I can afford a new WRX or even a WRX STi? I long for one so badly... :(
 
there is a corolla going around in one of the other threads to learn how to drive stick, maybe you can queue in line :mrgreen:
 
I saw a camoed up Saab and two Leopards today.
 
Just saw a Merc 190E 2.3 (not the 2.3-16) in the parking lot, and my first thought was "Dogleg?"

It was an auto though.
 
Just saw a Merc 190E 2.3 (not the 2.3-16) in the parking lot, and my first thought was "Dogleg?"

It was an auto though.

Atlantian have poisoned your mind!
 
Am I nuts for thinking that if I get promoted to being salaried at work, I should get a license and then figure out if I can afford a new WRX or even a WRX STi? I long for one so badly... :(

I'd start off with something crappy for a year or so after getting your license. If you do something bad to it it won't matter.

Then get a WRX.
 
Has anyone of you bought crap tires for the driving axle, just so you could drive erratically without wasting your good tires?

My garage is full of crap tires just for that purpose :p
But i would never buy any. Theres lots of people who have crap tires laying around from old cars. Ive been given all my crap/burnout-tires :cool:
 
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