Any other MANUAL purists out there? (parody of Posmo's thread)

[TopGearManiac]

manual > auto!! ANYTIME OF TEH DAY!! thread closed. go to to the pub and have some fun now. Automatics are for people like my mom, who can not understand the idea of shifting gears.

 

[LeVeL]

On the street, it ALSO shifts when you want it to

You must have discovered some sort of magical automatic transmission that reads your mind and responds to your thoughts, rather than your right foot. Quick! Patent it! You'll make millions! Nay, billions!

But when you have a lot of torque, in a larger car like my 740iL, an autobox is perfectly fine.

That's your opinion. Mine is that I wouldn't but a 7-series because it doesn't come with a manual.

If you're only 19, you simply DON'T have much experience, period. But like a typical kid, your opinion is set in stone, and it's more important to hold tightly to that opinion than actually learn anything, isn't it?

Terribly sorry that we dare disagree with you Yoda.

When did being closed minded and inflexible ever become a valuable goal to automotive enthusiasts?

When did having an opinion and a personal preference become unacceptable? Are you going to argue with me that oranges are just as good as bananas for everyone regardless of their personal taste and preference?

So my 740iL sucks for daily driving? Wanna come with me on my commute and point out where moving a 3rd pedal a couple inches would add any fun to it? I've commuted in my 7 series for quite a while, and commuted in my Fiat 124 Spider with a 5 speed. Same commute. the SHIFTING had zero bearing on whether it was fun or not.

I really don't understand how you can tell me what I prefer. I like opening and closing my own clutch; I like moving the gear lever in and out of gears; I like blipping the throttle on downshifts. You prefer not to do that on your daily commute and that's fine, just don't except me to like it too.

In spirited driving, I'm more concerned with cornering ability and acceleration/braking than whether I have to move a 3rd pedal a couple inches ever few miles. I still like it, but it isn't a deal breaker if I don't, so long as the entire package is balanced.

/facepalm
Well, it is a deal breaker for me. I, personally, prefer to row my own. It does add to the fun factor for me. Even on a track where your built automatic will be faster, I'll still pick a manual because its more fun to me.

I'm going through a bit of added time and expense putting a 5 speed manual behind the Lexus 1UZ V8 I'm installing in my '63 Mercury Comet convertible. And it's just supposed to be a custom cruiser.

Now I'm lost. Correct me if I'm wrong but this whole time you've been telling us that a car to just cruise around in (daily driver or "cruiser", as opposed to a race car) that has a good bit of torque is perfectly fine with an automatic. So why are you swapping a manual into this car?

Well, yeah, it was in E-Mod, due to the V8 engine swap. But it was still a street car, with plates and street legal tires (well, Yokohama A-008RS II, where essentially the outer half of the tire is a slick). But it wasn't "crazy built." It only cost me about $100 in parts...

Street legal != street car. Also, are you really claiming that it cost you $100 to build that car? Those tires alone will cost way more than that. If you have some sort of parts hookup that's great but it doesn't mean that its a $100 project, it just means that you've got connections.

I was merely being conversational to start with, with an explanation and no arguments, but then THEY came on and started acting like dicks about it. "I don't care what the fact are, my mind's made up."

You haven't presented any facts :lol: "Automatic is just as good as manual" is NOT a fact, its an opinion.

My opinion is that his opinion is not educated. And I have the right to state that. If your opinion is based on misinformation and lack of experience, then why argue it, or remain tightly closed off to possibilities you haven't experienced yet? is opinion that much more important than knowledge here? Good to know, right off the bat...

Now what exactly do you know about the experience, education, and knowledge of anyone here?

LeVel did say they suck. And I said I prefer good manuals (and the only cars I've bought new have had manuals by choice).

Great, I also prefer manuals because in my opinion automatics are not nearly as enjoyable to drive.

You guys miss that part because to you, if you accept automatics, or like them in certain situations, you MUST then prefer them and dislike manuals. I'm saying you CAN like both, if you're not closed minded.

Now you're just making things up. In fact, I'm pretty sure that I already admitted that an automatic is better than a manual for drag racing. However, I'll take a manual for any other type of driving.

And my responses about the commute argument are to say "using your logic it MUST add fun to move that third pedal every once in a while, and I want you to be able to back your opinion with facts and point out where and how it does that in every case, and you can use my car and my commute as an example."

Right on the money! I am indeed arguing that having to push a third pedal once in a while makes a daily commute more fun. I've commuted in automatics before and I've commuted in manuals and I can confidently tell you that I prefer having a manual even on my boring commute in traffic. Like I said before, I like opening and closing my own clutch and rowing my own gears and you have no right whatsoever to tell me that I don't. Its my opinion.

But, before I accept the opinion of a young driver as gospel, I want them to back it up with knowledge. Is that really too much to ask? I want to make sure I'm dealing with people that know what they are talking about, not just someone spouting off the usual unsupported opinions.

:lol: No one is telling you to accept their opinion as gospel. What the hell do I care what you drive? You came in here arguing that we are all a bunch of kids that don't know what they are talking about and that automatics are just as good as manuals. You have your opinion and we have yours; the only one here trying to persuade others to change their opinions is you. As far as supporting my opinion goes, I already mentioned it twice but I'll say it again: I enjoy depressing the clutch, shifting in and out of gears, and blipping the throttle. I also enjoy cucumbers with ketchup; who are you to tell me that that's wrong?

 

[prizrak]

I also enjoy cucumbers with ketchup;

OK that's just weird dude But I do feel like I want to try that

How about we put this thing to rest, transmissions suck, all they do is introduce parasitic loss, direct drive electric cars is where its at!

 

[Posmo]

Im afraid Rear wheel drive is where its at.














Anyway, I agree, this thread has run it's course.

 

[thevictor390]

Since when can't electric cars be rear wheel drive?

 

[argatoga]

Hydrogen fuel cells powered electric cars are the future. I like rowing gears, but it won't be viable for cars in the long run.

 

[thevictor390]

Considering that a 1920s Model T is still road legal, I don't think you have to worry about it in your lifetime (provided you can find a fuel source).

 

[prizrak]

Since when can't electric cars be rear wheel drive?

Since when Posmo sees "drive" that does not have "rear wheel" in front of it he assumes its not RWD no matter what the subject matter

 

[Merc63]

You must have discovered some sort of magical automatic transmission that reads your mind and responds to your thoughts, rather than your right foot. Quick! Patent it! You'll make millions! Nay, billions!

Magic? No, you simply moved the lever. Unfortunately the shift lever has been invented already (even my BMW has one), but thanks for thinking of me!

That's your opinion. Mine is that I wouldn't but a 7-series because it doesn't come with a manual.

I see. Knowing your limitations is a good thing, i guess. Personally, I don't put being closed minded up as a valuable goal to be strived for, but you obviously do. It's good to have goals, I guess. I'll give any car a go.

Terribly sorry that we dare disagree with you Yoda.

See above. it must be nice to be so young and know everything already.

When did having an opinion and a personal preference become unacceptable? Are you going to argue with me that oranges are just as good as bananas for everyone regardless of their personal taste and preference?

Cars are not natural. Your response to them is learned, thus opinions are based on what you learn, not inherent natural reactions, like taste buds or color. And even with taste, you might hate spaghetti sauce when you are 5 but realize that it tastes damn good when you are 25. you might hate teh taste of beer when you are 13, but then at 18, decide it's pretty good. And a 26 realize that some is good and some is crap. So even opinions based on natural reaction can change as you learn and experience more. NEVER stop learning and experiencing.

Besides, THIS isn't about personal preference. AS I SAID: my own personal preference in a car is for a good manual. But notice, that having a preference doesn't stop me from being able to enjoy and experience other things as well. I don't want to be self limiting and closed minded. I want to experience and learn more, and unlike you, I'm not afraid of the possibility of losing my preferences.

I really don't understand how you can tell me what I prefer. I like opening and closing my own clutch; I like moving the gear lever in and out of gears; I like blipping the throttle on downshifts. You prefer not to do that on your daily commute and that's fine, just don't except me to like it too.

The first part and the last part are not connected. I never told you what your preference is so your first sentence is complete rubbish. What you or I PREFER is not the issue. And since I've repeatedly said that I prefer a good manual, the LAST sentence in the quote shows that you are also incapable of reading. I didn't say I PREFERRED an automatic, I said I want you to show where it adds what you say it does in my commute. There's a rather large difference.

See, I'm not the one insulting those that have a different preference as being inferior (hell, we don't even have different preferences). You are saying anyone that likes a good automatic is inferior, and all cars with them are rubbish, so I'm responding to your attitude with an attitude of my own. :lol: If you don't like being treated like you are inferior, maybe you ought not do it to others to start with, as they may respond to you...

/facepalm
Well, it is a deal breaker for me. I, personally, prefer to row my own. It does add to the fun factor for me. Even on a track where your built automatic will be faster, I'll still pick a manual because its more fun to me.

have you ever driving an indoor kart that does 45 mph or so? No shifting and massive fun driving. Have you TRIED having fun in a car liek my RX7 autocross car? Do you have the experience to back up your opinion that it's not fun? if so, then I defer to that experience. otherwise the opinion is unsupported, and you're just arguing it because holding a tightly formed opinion is more important to you than learning and experiencing anything. So why should I respect that?

Saying you prefer a good manual is fine. As I said, I do too. It's the rest of the attitude and closed mindedness that I'm responding to. it's the inflexibility and insulting behavior you exhibited to start with that's what I'm responding to in kind so you can see what it feels like.

Now I'm lost. Correct me if I'm wrong but this whole time you've been telling us that a car to just cruise around in (daily driver or "cruiser", as opposed to a race car) that has a good bit of torque is perfectly fine with an automatic. So why are you swapping a manual into this car?

Because it's cool and hasn't been done before. Because I like different. And because as I've said a number of times, I PREFER a good manual. The reason your confused is because besides being closed minded, you are also illiterate. :lol:

I say that the automatic is fine in those situations because it doesn't bother me to drive one. If I'm building a high torque race car, I'll put in a modded automatic if available for that combination because I find it to be the best tool for the job. If I'm building a custom car, I'll use whatever I think is the coolest combination for the job. in this case, putting a manual trans behind an engine that never was offered with one, is cool. And making it all work in a classic American car is even cooler. Purists will hate it, of course, as it's a Japanese engine in an American car, but so what? I hate closed minded purists. :lol:

Street legal != street car. Also, are you really claiming that it cost you $100 to build that car? Those tires alone will cost way more than that. If you have some sort of parts hookup that's great but it doesn't mean that its a $100 project, it just means that you've got connections.

Wow. Again with the reading ability. I was talking about the parts in the transmission. I had over $2500 in parts in the car (other than the car itself, which I got for a grand and autocrossed for a year in stock rotary form).

And yes, the car was routinely street driven during the 5 years it was like that. I also had my truck (with a manual) the 911 (with a manual) and a '62 Falcon custom that had the stock 3-on-the-tree manual trans (and you want an example of a really BAD manual transmission, try a stock '60s column shift manual...)

Now what exactly do you know about the experience, education, and knowledge of anyone here?

I know only what I read, and your ownership/age as listed. At 19, he could NOT have had as much experience. Simply put, I've spent the last 30+ years building and driving cars of all kinds, and have seen and experienced people that hold opinions the same way as those presented here. The common thread amongst all of them is low number of varied cars owned, and age. Enthusiasm for a certain subset of cars is a given. But the self-limiting and hating on everything that isn't a favorite is limited to a lack of experience, lack of knowledge of the subject, and that comes with young age. Looking at the ages listed, the clues fall together. Not all young enthusiasts are like that. But all people who are like that have limited experience.

If you want me to change my opinion then you have to bring the tech. Experience. Knowledge. And if you do that, I modify my own opinion to incorporate that new knowledge. It's easy. You might want to try it sometime.

Great, I also prefer manuals because in my opinion automatics are not nearly as enjoyable to drive.[q/uote]

I prefer manuals, too. But, I know that not all automatics are the same, and my experience has shown me that many are quite good. You don't want to even attempt to gain that experience and knowledge.

Now you're just making things up. In fact, I'm pretty sure that I already admitted that an automatic is better than a manual for drag racing. However, I'll take a manual for any other type of driving.

I'm not making it up. You were/are saying that I prefer automatics, and you're arguing with me based on that assumption. the confusion you showed earlier when you couldn't figure out why someone who supposedly prefers automatics is putting a manual in his custom car, shows that that's what you thought.

And your strenuous objection to keeping an open mind indicates a fear that if you experienced and learned what I have that you might learn to like good automatics, too.

Right on the money! I am indeed arguing that having to push a third pedal once in a while makes a daily commute more fun.

Bully for you. While I like it occasionally, too, after time, I no longer even notice shifting, as it's done out of habit. So most of the time, if you're any good, you don't even NOTICE the shifting.

But, since you make the claim of fun, point out what exactly is driving fun about pushing a third pedal occasionally while commuting. I mean, I understand a direct steering feel, and G forces, and acceleration, and heavy braking diving into a corner, and catching just the right amount of lateral grip that the tires are on the edge of adhesion, and the adrenaline rush of the speed and perfect meshing of all components of the car and driver to execute that perfect apex at speed with maximum side lading on your body....

Thinking about most of the things that are categorized as fun.. sex, sports, games, kicking back with a beer on the beach watching a sunset...

But I'm not quite up on the concept of "fun" when it applies to pushing that third pedal moving from second to third in traffic. Enlighten me in a way that proves it's a universal thing that allows you to be insulting about those that don't do it all the time. If you can do that, I'll change my opinion of you.

I've commuted in automatics before and I've commuted in manuals and I can confidently tell you that I prefer having a manual even on my boring commute in traffic. Like I said before, I like opening and closing my own clutch and rowing my own gears and you have no right whatsoever to tell me that I don't. Its my opinion.

And if you went on a medical board and said it's your opinion that you can cure lung cancer by rubbing grape jelly on your chest and chanting, do you think experienced medical professionals would say "gee, how nice. He has an opinion?" or would they point out where you were wrong?

If you were still in school, and your teacher gave you an F on a test would you be able to successfully argue that it should be an A simply because the answer was your opinion?

All racist opinions are still opinions. Are they correct?

Opinions based on limited experience can be changed by gaining knowledge and experience. Just because it's an opinion doesn't make it a well founded opinion. And just because it's your opinion doesn't mean someone can't point out the flaws in the supporting evidence and logical conclusions that drive the opinion. For example, has your sample size been large enough to get a real feel for the truth? Have you commuted in something like my car, for example?

Personally, over the last 30 years, I've commuted in economy cars with automatics, and in stock form, they do suck. Buzzy, no fun in ANY capacity. I've commuted in a lot of sporty cars with manuals, and they've been fun, but usually for reasons other than shifting. I've commuted in manual trans vehicles that were simply chores to drive. again, no fun in ANY capacity, and no amount of shifting would fix that. And I've commuted in cars like the 7 series, my old Jag XJ6s and the Range rover, and the automatic took nothing away from them being enjoyable to be in. It's ALWAYS about the entire package, not one or two small components of the package. THAT'S what I've learned from experience and keeping an open mind.

:lol: No one is telling you to accept their opinion as gospel.

I came here to the final gear forums to learn about things in parts of the world I'm not in. I love the shows for that reason. But part of learning about new things is understanding whether the people I'm getting that new knowledge from know what they are talking about and have enough experience and knowledge to deliver informed opinions. if I can't trust their opinions on things I know a lot about, how can I trust them on things I know nothing about?

And if you are posting in a public forum where anyone can come and look, then you are expecting people to take your opinions seriously. You are expecting people to conclude that you know what you are talking about.

I want to learn from people who know what they are talking about so that I, in turn, can learn new things and then be confident that I know what I am talking about when questions on those subjects come up.

What the hell do I care what you drive? [/;quote]

Well, what I was hoping that showing what I own, where I'm coming from, and what my experience is, would allow you to understand what I'm talking about. I didn't realize coming into it is that you don't care about anything but holding tightly to an opinion, and that anyone with actual experience in a wide range of things is unimportant to you.

You came in here arguing that we are all a bunch of kids that don't know what they are talking about and that automatics are just as good as manuals.

Actually if you look at that first sentence where I said that, I put a smiley on it, indicating that I wasn't arguing, but merely adding my experience. YOU were the one that took off and got all bent out of shape. So I'm just giving that attitude back to you. And even then, most of the time I've been adding smileys... And dude, seriously, are you not just a bunch of young drivers? Especially Posmo? :lol:

You have your opinion and we have yours; the only one here trying to persuade others to change their opinions is you. As far as supporting my opinion goes, I already mentioned it twice but I'll say it again: I enjoy depressing the clutch, shifting in and out of gears, and blipping the throttle. I also enjoy cucumbers with ketchup; who are you to tell me that that's wrong?

*sigh* I've never said your goddamn preference was wrong. But you're all butthurt that someone called you young and closed minded.

But yes, I DO try to get supposed automotive enthusiasts to be more open minded, especially young enthusiasts. It pains me to see young car guys starting out their lives so closed minded and hateful. Sorry that I tried to open your eyes to other possibilities and new experience.

 

[kurthest]

Automatic is for people who dont really like to drive cars, but needs to use cars to get from A to B and back.
People who like to drive cars will have a manual gearbox.

 

[argatoga]

The thread needs to end.

 

[LeVeL]

Magic? No, you simply moved the lever. Unfortunately the shift lever has been invented already (even my BMW has one), but thanks for thinking of me!

Ah, the semi-auto type of thing. My dad's A4 has a 6-speed like that and I can't stand it. Whenever I drive that car I just leave it in auto and wish that it had a manual.

it must be nice to be so young and know everything already.

It is nice being young, yes

Cars are not natural. Your response to them is learned, thus opinions are based on what you learn, not inherent natural reactions, like taste buds or color. And even with taste, you might hate spaghetti sauce when you are 5 but realize that it tastes damn good when you are 25. you might hate teh taste of beer when you are 13, but then at 18, decide it's pretty good. And a 26 realize that some is good and some is crap. So even opinions based on natural reaction can change as you learn and experience more. NEVER stop learning and experiencing.

Huh? That paragraph is irrelevant seeing as I never said that I was born with a preference for manuals. What I did say was that I've driven quite a few automatics and manuals and I prefer stick-shift by quite a margin.

Besides, THIS isn't about personal preference. AS I SAID: my own personal preference in a car is for a good manual. But notice, that having a preference doesn't stop me from being able to enjoy and experience other things as well. I don't want to be self limiting and closed minded. I want to experience and learn more, and unlike you, I'm not afraid of the possibility of losing my preferences.

If you prefer a manual then you are limiting yourself by driving an automatic BMW :lol: I try not to limit myself by driving something I dislike so I stick to manuals.

I didn't say I PREFERRED an automatic

Actually, yes you did - you said that you prefer an automatic in some situations/cars, and I disagreed saying that I, personally, prefer a manual in all situations/cars (well ok, apart from drag racing, but I'm not into that anyways).

See, I'm not the one insulting those that have a different preference as being inferior (hell, we don't even have different preferences). You are saying anyone that likes a good automatic is inferior, and all cars with them are rubbish, so I'm responding to your attitude with an attitude of my own. :lol: If you don't like being treated like you are inferior, maybe you ought not do it to others to start with, as they may respond to you...

When did I ever insult you? When did I ever call you inferior? When did I say that "everyone that likes a good automatic is inferior"? Hell, "good automatic" is an oxymoron so that doesn't even make sense.

have you ever driving an indoor kart that does 45 mph or so? No shifting and massive fun driving. Have you TRIED having fun in a car liek my RX7 autocross car?

I have and I have. A manual just wouldn't make sense in something that tops out around 45-50. As far as autocross is concerned, like I said before, you often just stay in one gear the whole time or maybe shift to third at one point. Is it that hard to do? :lol:

I say that the automatic is fine in those situations because it doesn't bother me to drive one. If I'm building a high torque race car, I'll put in a modded automatic if available for that combination because I find it to be the best tool for the job.

That's great. I find a manual to be the best tool for the job in almost all situations. Man am I glad that I live in a free country where I can have the transmission that I prefer and you can have the one that you like more.

I prefer manuals, too. But, I know that not all automatics are the same, and my experience has shown me that many are quite good. You don't want to even attempt to gain that experience and knowledge.

You're still missing something here: I've driven numerious cars with both transmissions and my experience has yet to show me an automatic that I would prefer over a manual.

I'm not making it up. You were/are saying that I prefer automatics, and you're arguing with me based on that assumption. the confusion you showed earlier when you couldn't figure out why someone who supposedly prefers automatics is putting a manual in his custom car, shows that that's what you thought.

You mentioned before that you prefer to have an automatic in a daily driver / cruiser, which is exactly the type of car that you are putting a manual into. I apologize for being confused when you say one thing and do another :lol:

Bully for you. While I like it occasionally, too, after time, I no longer even notice shifting, as it's done out of habit. So most of the time, if you're any good, you don't even NOTICE the shifting.

I know what you mean but you can choose to notice the shifting or let your subconscious ignore it. I prefer the more entertaining one of the two.

But, since you make the claim of fun, point out what exactly is driving fun about pushing a third pedal occasionally while commuting.

Apparently you find shifting a chore rather than a fun activity. No wonder you drive an automatic And please don't reduce shifting to just pushing a pedal once in a while just for the sake of your argument.

But I'm not quite up on the concept of "fun" when it applies to pushing that third pedal moving from second to third in traffic. Enlighten me in a way that proves it's a universal thing that allows you to be insulting about those that don't do it all the time. If you can do that, I'll change my opinion of you.

Its not a universal thing and I never said that it was - some people prefer automatics and that's great, what do I care? You can drive a pink Cadillac for all I care. Also, I never insulted you.

And if you went on a medical board and said it's your opinion that you can cure lung cancer by rubbing grape jelly on your chest and chanting, do you think experienced medical professionals would say "gee, how nice. He has an opinion?" or would they point out where you were wrong?
If you were still in school, and your teacher gave you an F on a test would you be able to successfully argue that it should be an A simply because the answer was your opinion?

So what you're saying is that its a fact that automatics are better for, say, a daily commute? Strange, I thought it was opinion Do you honestly not see the difference between arguing that 2+2=5 and not 4 and explaining why you prefer one thing over another? If so then this conversation is really pointless.

It's ALWAYS about the entire package, not one or two small components of the package.

Couldn't agree with you more. But if you can make the experience that little bit better by having the type of transmission that you prefer, why wouldn't you? Heated seats are not a necessity, not by a long shot, but I will admit that they are nice to have, so if I can have them... why wouldn't I?

*sigh* I've never said your goddamn preference was wrong. But you're all butthurt that someone called you young and closed minded.

Isn't this whole argument about preference? I cant be "butthurt" about being called young (its kind of hard to argue), but I don't really appreciate being called closed minded when I'm not.

I don't put being closed minded up as a valuable goal to be strived for, but you obviously do.

the LAST sentence in the quote shows that you are also incapable of reading.

It's the rest of the attitude and closed mindedness that I'm responding to. it's the inflexibility and insulting behavior you exhibited to start with that's what I'm responding to in kind so you can see what it feels like.

The reason your confused is because besides being closed minded, you are also illiterate. :lol:

Wow. Again with the reading ability.

But the self-limiting and hating on everything that isn't a favorite is limited to

...a lack of experience, lack of knowledge of the subject

And your strenuous objection to keeping an open mind indicates a fear that if you experienced and learned what I have that you might learn to like good automatics, too.

All racist opinions are still opinions.

you're just arguing it because holding a tightly formed opinion is more important to you than learning and experiencing anything. So why should I respect that?

Because what you're saying here is just plain wrong. I have experienced numerous automatics and manuals and out of my experience I formed a preference for manuals. I've mentioned that several times now and yet you keep on bring up my being "closed minded" and whatnot. Oh, and please stop with the personal insults. I've been treating you with respect so far and I expect the same in return.

 

[LeVeL]

The thread needs to end.

We are having a civil argument. What's wrong with that?

 

[Brother Michael]

And if you went on a medical board and said it's your opinion that you can cure lung cancer by rubbing grape jelly on your chest and chanting, do you think experienced medical professionals would say "gee, how nice. He has an opinion?" or would they point out where you were wrong?

If you were still in school, and your teacher gave you an F on a test would you be able to successfully argue that it should be an A simply because the answer was your opinion?

All racist opinions are still opinions. Are they correct?

Opinions based on limited experience can be changed by gaining knowledge and experience. Just because it's an opinion doesn't make it a well founded opinion. And just because it's your opinion doesn't mean someone can't point out the flaws in the supporting evidence and logical conclusions that drive the opinion. For example, has your sample size been large enough to get a real feel for the truth? Have you commuted in something like my car, for example?

Personally, over the last 30 years, I've commuted in economy cars with automatics, and in stock form, they do suck. Buzzy, no fun in ANY capacity. I've commuted in a lot of sporty cars with manuals, and they've been fun, but usually for reasons other than shifting. I've commuted in manual trans vehicles that were simply chores to drive. again, no fun in ANY capacity, and no amount of shifting would fix that. And I've commuted in cars like the 7 series, my old Jag XJ6s and the Range rover, and the automatic took nothing away from them being enjoyable to be in. It's ALWAYS about the entire package, not one or two small components of the package. THAT'S what I've learned from experience and keeping an open mind.

You were going so well up until this point. Until this I was nodding along going "yeah...yeah...true...yeah..."

However what it boils down to, as far as I can see, is this:

You have a very strong belief that nobody under the age of 30 can have any relevant life experience on anything, because they are too young and according to you this means they simply can not have an informed opinion on anything - an opinion which by definition is NOT based on factual information:

opinion - a personal belief or judgment that is not founded on proof or certainty;

See this ? This is why you are getting as much stick from a couple of us as you are. Though I see you have also received praise for your sayings and very deservedly too, from me as well. As I said I do like that you take the time to form logical sentences and go to great lenghts to defend your views. But, I also have to point out that I refuse to accept your logic here:

For example by your first statements I could not have any undestanding about anything (just a simplified example for the sake of argument). Food for example. Many older people have also thought my opinions are rubbish and uneducated, because how could anyone under 30 know anything about fine dining ? Well....it just happens that I have worked in restarurants, fancy ones included, ever since I was 14 and thus I have a vast understanding of food and dining culture in general. This means I have had the opportunity to shut up a lot of older people who were just blinded by my age. Now you did redeem yourself by stating that as long as one showed some proof of their experience, their opinion is valid, it's okay. But you did this only later on.

Second of all, continueing with the food theme if I may, by your logic someone disliking spaghetti or say cognac, is closed minded and thus not worth your time, because they have only tried a few different kinds and they have not had the opportunity to form an informed opinion based on life long experience.

Bullshit I say.

As I already tried to explain, this comes down to difference of opinions - something you just refuse to accept. As much as I love whisky, I can't call my brother narrowminded just because he dislikes it. So he doesn't have the same taste as I do, big deal. Just like here you have an incomprehensible hate towards people, young people in particular, who do not like automatic gearboxes. And even worse is the fact that you feel the need to educate those of lesser experience and intelligence, by pretty much forcing your "correct way of thinking" upon them. You said it yourself:

But yes, I DO try to get supposed automotive enthusiasts to be more open minded, especially young enthusiasts. It pains me to see young car guys starting out their lives so closed minded and hateful. Sorry that I tried to open your eyes to other possibilities and new experience.

I can't force my brother to like whisky. He has tried several different kinds of whisky: single malt, blend, bourbon. Yet he likes none of those. And you know what ? He won't change his opnion, not even if I give him 20 different brands of every kind of whisky there is. He just doesn't like it.

IT IS HIS OPINION.

And there is absolutely fuck all I can do about it. Same case here. LeVeL has stated numerous times that in his opinion automatics are not for him, he even said they suck. In his opinion. And still you refuse to accept that a 19-year old, who has tried several different kinds of automatic transmissions, could have the ability and the experience needed to form an informed and educated opinion.

Your arguments about school and medical boards are irrelevant and irrational; schools and medical boards are based on facts, scientific truths. Opinions, like one's preferred type of transmission, aren't. That is a huge difference and a difference you should try to understand. You are blatantly assessing the people here, or at least LeVeL, based on stereotypes. Stereotypes which dictate that young people are immature, naive and know nothing. But two can play that game. I could claim that I know your type....the over qualified, over educated stuck up know-it-all, who thinks others around him are lesser people, because they don't have the education and/or life experience that you possess. I could say that, I know many others like that. But I'm still holding back on that one, since I don't want to rush into conclusions of people that I know nothing about.

And still nobody here is saying an automatic is better or worse than a manul in everyday use. It still is about personal preference. A thing you, me or noone else can influence just by referring to a more substantial experience. My brother doesn't like whisky. LeVeL doesn't like automatic transmissions.

Personal preference.

Opinion.

"a personal belief or judgment that is not founded on proof or certainty"

 

[gaasc]

 

[Posmo]

Since when Posmo sees "drive" that does not have "rear wheel" in front of it he assumes its not RWD no matter what the subject matter

Correction: I assume that, whatever it is, it's inferior to rear-wheel drive.

 

[argatoga]

Bullshit. Side wheel driver is where the performance is at.

 

[LeVeL]

Anyone got that gif of the japanese kid drifting a tricycle (or bike with training wheels)? :lol:

 

[Vette Boss]

Some autoboxes are okay, particularly if they have "sport" mode to hold the gears longer or manual shifting mode. In my experience, the Honda ones are pretty awful, shifting up as absolutely soon as possible and refusing to kick-down. Gear ratios make a big difference as well, Honda seems to go with taller ones. Which I think is a bit odd, since most of the power is at the top-end.

I do like an autobox for just commuting around, but a manual is more fun. If I bought a sportscar, it would be a manual.

 

[Merc63]

Automatic is for people who dont really like to drive cars, but needs to use cars to get from A to B and back.
People who like to drive cars will have a manual gearbox.

See guys, this is why I have an issue. You can't just say "I prefer manuals" you have to insult everything that isn't your favorite, and make stupid statements about the people who either like or accept the things that aren't your favorite.



And people were doing that in this thread before I got here, so my statements are in response to stuff like this. If you don't like being insulted for your choices, don't insult others for their choices to start with!

I like to drive cars. I like to drive both my manual and automatic cars. I like to RACE both manual and automatic cars, therefore your statement is false. :lol: