What would it take to convert you?

Blind_Io said:
Thanks for the rep, and thank you for disagreeing with me. Let me explain what I mean, maybe that will help:

I am only writing my personal thoughts, nothing more. The three ideas of omniscience, omnipotence, and benevolence are widely accepted in Judeo-Christian faiths and held by most the followers of those religions.

I was not trying to say "don't worship a spiteful and vengeful god." I was trying to say that I won't worship a spiteful and vengeful god. Let's say that there is incontrovertible proof that there is a god, that god him/her/itself descends from the heavens to be revealed to all of mankind. Let's now say that god then instructs us to stone to death anyone who has had sex outside of marriage, or is gay, or has dark skin. Some would choose to worship that god simply for being god. I'm saying that in that case I would believe in a god, but when commanded to worship it, I would refuse.

To me, allowing suffering to happen when it's within one's power to stop it is no different than causing that suffering oneself.
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Well, while your ideas are certainly valid, it didn't seem to me that you were simply stating your own viewpoint earlier, but rather making an argument that should invalidate the beliefs of others, should they critically examine those beliefs. I'm all for that type of argument: show the logical inconsistencies in a belief system, thus forcing the believer to examine why they think they way they do. And your earlier argument is entirely valid so long as you leave out the bit about "not deserving of worship". Maybe it's a good caveat to tack onto the end "I don't think a vengeful and spiteful god is worthy of worship" but it shouldn't be part of the argument for why an omniscient, omnipotent, benevolent god is a logical inconsistency.

And I'll just throw this in there: if gods really did exist, I'd be on the side of the most badass one. That one probably isn't benevolent. That god and I would go around smiting the crap out of people just for fun. Good times. :)
 
Off topic but......this thread is giving me a headache.
 
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wooflepoof said:
Logic is a branch of philosophy created man and has been changed and refined over the centuries. It's merely a study of what makes up good reasoning and it's certainly not without its own flaws.
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I can see my mistake. personally, when I say "logic" i am speaking of what makes it works. It's not the man-defined branch of philosophy, but what makes it possible for it to exist. Like mathematics. Men invented mathematics and all its theorems, but we all agree its based on reality itself. I was using "logic" in the same sense. not the set of rules, but the reason why these rules work. I just don't know what word you use for this.
 
spicysaurus said:
Well, while your ideas are certainly valid, it didn't seem to me that you were simply stating your own viewpoint earlier, but rather making an argument that should invalidate the beliefs of others, should they critically examine those beliefs. I'm all for that type of argument: show the logical inconsistencies in a belief system, thus forcing the believer to examine why they think they way they do. And your earlier argument is entirely valid so long as you leave out the bit about "not deserving of worship". Maybe it's a good caveat to tack onto the end "I don't think a vengeful and spiteful god is worthy of worship" but it shouldn't be part of the argument for why an omniscient, omnipotent, benevolent god is a logical inconsistency.

And I'll just throw this in there: if gods really did exist, I'd be on the side of the most badass one. That one probably isn't benevolent. That god and I would go around smiting the crap out of people just for fun. Good times. :)
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Maybe it would help if I explained how I came to my current skeptical view. I was raised as a Methodist and was dissatisfied with the hypocrisy I saw in several members of my church. I started to explore logic and science and enjoyed the process of logical thought. The problem is that religion does not stand up under logical scrutiny. When I talk about the difference between religion and science or logic I do so from my own perspective and process of moving from faith-based to science-based paradigms.
 
I'm going to stay out of this thread, aside from mentioning that I'm very pleased to see that FinalGear is home to a good proportion of people who follow the ideals of rationality and logic rather than blind faith.
 
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