Ron Dennis attacks the Bugatti Veyron (and Top Gear credibility)

[Evel]

Clarkson has always hated the F1 and always loved the Veyron.


Why won't turbos work in a hot weather?
Why won't the heat affect the performance of a naturally aspirated engine?


So you're saing that Hammond messed up the start with a DSG transmission which does basically everything for you?
DSG has two clutches. Maybe the software just messed up the start? The Veyron's DSG isn't the same unit VAG is using in their mainstream cars (not even from the same manufacturer). They put much more money developing their consumer products than a limited production supercar and even the consumer DSG softwares can be utter shit when they come out. My dad had a Q5 with an s-tronic transmission (Audi branded DSG) and it was just horrible.
Wouldn't be surprised if the Veyron's DSG could bog down in a start.


It's hard to think that someone would buy a flash car because he has a small penis.
I usually see women driving small cars. So according to you they all have huge penises?
I think I'm right in saying that a real car enthusiast would buy a nice car if he had the money to do so. So basically every car enthusiast should have a small penis?
I'm not sure if I'm reading this right but are you saying that everyone on this forum has a small penis?
Or will it get smaller when you get the nice car?
Didn't notice any difference in the length when I get the Viper. Well, it will be for sale in a week or two. Have to get back on this when it's sold. If I'll get a nicer replacement will depend on this. Not sure though where I'll hide my new toy whatever it'll be. My current toys are taking all the space I have.

F1 wasn't developed as an ultimate tracktool. It was developed to be a roadcar. It's said to be quiet and comfortable and it has a fairly soft suspension too. It's nowhere near a HC track tool. Maybe you are mixing it with the F1 LM.

1. Clarkson never really hated the F1, he just thought it was too expensive for what it was.

2. Do some research. Heat bogs down turbos, cold helps them.

3. There's more to a start than the transmission, although I won't deny that the software could've been the issue.

4. That's just the particular stereotype of owners of these kinds of cars. Doesn't mean hypercar owners actually have small penises. Oh, and no matter how comfortable and quiet the F1 is, the interior is far from refined, especially compared to the Veyron.

 

[Twerp128]

Isn't Top Gear credibility an oxymoron?

 

[Pry]

1. Clarkson never really hated the F1, he just thought it was too expensive for what it was.

2. Do some research. Heat bogs down turbos, cold helps them.

3. There's more to a start than the transmission, although I won't deny that the software could've been the issue.

4. That's just the particular stereotype of owners of these kinds of cars. Doesn't mean hypercar owners actually have small penises. Oh, and no matter how comfortable and quiet the F1 is, the interior is far from refined, especially compared to the Veyron.

1. Well maybe "hated" isn't the correct word but he said he never liked it.

2. What doesn't the heat bog down? I know exactly how turbos work. The intercooler won't be as efficient as it's in a cold weather but in the same way the heat affect the IAT of a naturally aspirated engine.
And how will it get better on the higher speeds when the Veyron overtaked the F1? The Veyron's IAT will certainly not be lover on that point than in the begining.

3. I assume that a Veyron has a launch control. So everything you have to do is lift a brake pedal?

4. I know it's a stereotype but I think it's pretty childish.
Maybe the Veyron is even quieter than the McLaren but it won't make the McLaren a HC track car. It doesn't even have a huge wing like the Veyron does.

 

[_HighVoltage_]

Pry is correct. Clarkson never liked the F1...which I find weird.

Was it ever possible to order your F1 with an LM wing? Was it an optional extra?

 

[Evel]

1. Well maybe "hated" isn't the correct word but he said he never liked it.

2. What doesn't the heat bog down? I know exactly how turbos work. The intercooler won't be as efficient as it's in a cold weather but in the same way the heat affect the IAT of a naturally aspirated engine.
And how will it get better on the higher speeds when the Veyron overtaked the F1? The Veyron's IAT will certainly not be lover on that point than in the begining.

3. I assume that a Veyron has a launch control. So everything you have to do is lift a brake pedal?

4. I know it's a stereotype but I think it's pretty childish.
Maybe the Veyron is even quieter than the McLaren but it won't make the McLaren a HC track car. It doesn't even have a huge wing like the Veyron does.

1. Alright, but it's still hard to say whether or not this was staged, we may never know.

2. When you've got a car with four turbos, the heat makes a much bigger difference than it does in the naturally-aspirated F1.

3. Hammond stated he didn't use launch control to make the race more interesting.

4. I personally think that the F1 is a driver's car, not a hardcore track day machine, but a driver's car. The Veyron on the other hand, is by no means a driver's car. It's a grand tourer which just happens to go 250 mph, which is why I think the two shouldn't be compared.

 

[Pry]

Pry is correct. Clarkson never liked the F1...which I find weird.

Was it ever possible to order your F1 with an LM wing? Was it an optional extra?

Yes I think they called it a GT package. It has a low LM style front splitter too.

1. Alright, but it's still hard to say whether or not this was staged, we may never know.

2. When you've got a car with four turbos, the heat makes a much bigger difference than it does in the naturally-aspirated F1.

3. Hammond stated he didn't use launch control to make the race more interesting.

4. I personally think that the F1 is a driver's car, not a hardcore track day machine, but a driver's car. The Veyron on the other hand, is by no means a driver's car. It's a grand tourer which just happens to go 250 mph, which is why I think the two shouldn't be compared.

2. The intake air temperatures will be similarly affected on both cars and should affect the power of both engines in the similar manner. If the Veyron's engine had to pull the timing to work free of detonation it means it's too high tuned for it's cooling capabilities which is bad engineering in my books. If that really is the case (which I don't believe) how could it work in a long term track use or in a 407 km/h top speed run (even in a colder climate)?
So saying that the Veyron's performance was affected more (in %) by the hot weather is just BS.

3. Well, that was stupid. I'd like to see how the new McLaren copes in a situation like that.

4. True

 

[Evel]

2. The intake air temperatures will be similarly affected on both cars and should affect the power of both engines in the similar manner. If the Veyron's engine had to pull the timing to work free of detonation it means it's too high tuned for it's cooling capabilities which is bad engineering in my books. If that really is the case (which I don't believe) how could it work in a long term track use or in a 407 km/h top speed run (even in a colder climate)?
So saying that the Veyron's performance was affected more (in %) by the hot weather is just BS.

I think I see why we're not on the same page here. You forgot to consider air density. The hotter the air, the less dense it is. In a car with four huge turbos, you'll need a lot of air to run at full power. Meanwhile, the F1's naturally aspirated engine won't have such an issue. It will be able to run full power almost instantly, while the Veyron will take some time to gather the air. Once it did gather the air is when it began to catch up.

 

[Pry]

I think I see why we're on the wrong page here. You forgot to consider air density. The hotter the air, the less dense it is. In a car with four huge turbos, you'll need a lot of air to run at full power. Meanwhile, the F1's naturally aspirated engine won't have such an issue. It will be able to run full power almost instantly, while the Veyron will take some time to gather the air. Once it did gather the air is when it began to catch up.

Sure the turbo lag is always present but now we are really nitpicking here. On a less dense air the turbos will compensate by spinning faster by altering the wastegate duty cycle. It'll take a fraction of a second more to spool the turbos to the higher speed and gain the desired boost level but in the same manner the McLaren will have to breath the less dense air which eats power. This is why they used a two speed supercharger in Merlin aero engines so the higher altitude wouldn't affect the power as much.

 

[Evel]

Sure the turbo lag is always present but now we are really nitpicking here. On a less dense air the turbos will compensate by spinning faster by altering the wastegate duty cycle. It'll take a fraction of a second more to spool the turbos to the higher speed and gain the desired boost level but in the same manner the McLaren will have to breath the less dense air which eats power. This is why they used a two speed supercharger in Merlin aero engines so the higher altitude wouldn't affect the power as much.

Well, keeping in mind Hammond's poor launch + the McLaren's good launch, that fraction of a second might've been enough to make the Veyron spend another second catching up.

 

[Pry]

Well, keeping in mind Hammond's poor launch + the McLaren's good launch, that fraction of a second might've been enough to make the Veyron spend another second catching up.

In practice the difference isn't even noticeable. The heat wasn't the issue.
The bottom line is the Veyron lost at the start because Hammond wasn't using the launch control. Starting from idle RPM's without launch control means the turbo lag will be significant, the engine is not in its power band and the DSG will probably have some lag before it reacts.
On the contrary the McLaren could make a perfect launch with a pro driver on the engines power band.

I'm off to sleep now.

 

[Spectre]

The Veyron as a car, IMHO, is ok. It is not ugly, it is not pretty/sexy. It is fast as hell and the most powerfull car ever produced to be street legal, and as such is a technical acheivement. But it does not move me in any way.

Ahem.

Current fastest production car in the world at 256mph proven with the latest spec theoretically capable of 270mph; minimum order spec 1183hp, $650K.

Makes the Veyron look like the overpriced toy it really is. Jay Leno had this to say about it:

When Shelby brought his car to me for a test drive, I admit I had never heard of it. I wasn't aware of it at all. But after I saw the Aero and then drove it, I was really impressed. This is not a prototype. It's a real street- and emissions-legal car. I drove it on a very hot, 100-degree Los Angeles day. The water temperature never went over 190, and the oil temp stabilized at around 220 degrees. If some of these other ultrafast cars get a little hot, you have to shut them off and wait. They're not very practical. But the SSC Aero is really functional. It's not fragile. You can beat the Aero up all day, and it'll keep running. And it's got a nav system, a backup camera, a 10-speaker stereo/CD system and even room in the trunk! You could probably commute to work in this car if you wanted to.

That's unusual. Supercars aren't supposed to be everyday drivers. You don't take them on shopping trips or to the drugstore. You go out in one of these cars for a long drive, then you put them back in the garage. You don't expect a supercar to be practical; it's all about driving pleasure.

Screw the silly Veyron with the computer nannies trying to keep you from discovering how miserable the chassis really is.

 

[GRtak]

What car is that Spectre?????

^ exactly.

Let's not forget the human factor. Hammond is far from the best driver (do we have to count all of his accidents and spin-outs?)

But doesn't Hammond hold a speed record in the UK in one of those cars he crashed?

(I know it wasn't his fault so stop with the flames already)


PRY

Heat has a negative effect on all engines. The turbos heat the air up way, way more (put your hand near an air compressor while it is running(not the spinning bits!!!!)) which is why the intercoolers are there in the first place. And the hotter it is, the more the computers back off the boost pressure the engine is getting and reduces the timing advance to keep the engine from destroying itself. Add in the fact that there were already several runs made, making the engine very warm to hot, makes it even worse.

Anyone know the average daily temp where they did that test? I bet it is near 110 F.

 

[bartboy9891]

Ahem.

Current fastest production car in the world at 256mph proven with the latest spec theoretically capable of 270mph; minimum order spec 1183hp, $650K.

Makes the Veyron look like the overpriced toy it really is. Jay Leno had this to say about it:

Screw the silly Veyron with the computer nannies trying to keep you from discovering how miserable the chassis really is.

When a car costs over a half a million dollars, it's going to be an "overpriced toy" regardless of what it is. No one is going to buy the SSC over the Veyron because it can go a few mph faster and costs half as much. And there's tons of faster cars out there, the Corvette Sledgehammer could do 255mph 20 years ago.

If you are going to go off of Leno's opinions, he loved the Veyron Grandsport. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if he ended up buying one.
http://www.jaylenosgarage.com/at-the-garage/bugatti/bugatti-veyron-164-grand-sport/

And who says the chassis is "miserable," seems like a stretch.

 

[Redliner]

Veyron x McLaren F1 is the new pushrods x OHC :lol:

 

[Cold Fussion]

They veyron will get you to 400km/h in comfort and luxury which no other car in the world can do. It is in a niche of a niche; they veyron is a niche squared and it is the ultimate dwag mobile.

 

[Interrobang]

So you're saing that Hammond messed up the start with a DSG transmission which does basically everything for you?

please note the smiley right behind that sentence, if you want to know what I?m "saying" ...

It's hard to think that someone would buy a flash car because he has a small penis.
I usually see women driving small cars. So according to you they all have huge penises?
I think I'm right in saying that a real car enthusiast would buy a nice car if he had the money to do so. So basically every car enthusiast should have a small penis?
I'm not sure if I'm reading this right but are you saying that everyone on this forum has a small penis?
Or will it get smaller when you get the nice car?
Didn't notice any difference in the length when I get the Viper. Well, it will be for sale in a week or two. Have to get back on this when it's sold. If I'll get a nicer replacement will depend on this. Not sure though where I'll hide my new toy whatever it'll be. My current toys are taking all the space I have.

Well the ultimate test of what size a penis you have, is if you can take a Joke at your cost ...

 

[Mr. Nice]

^And Spectre has now entered the Europe vs. America car wars... this time weighing in on the side of the USA

 

[the Interceptor]

^And Spectre has now entered the Europe vs. America car wars... this time weighing in on the side of the USA

Totally unncessary and blatantly biased I might add...

 

[-Cpt. J.-]

Too many sportscars/hypercars today have the same basic shape. Shaped like a pointy triangle.
The Veyron looks like an egg. It has an extremely distinctive look just like the McLaren F1 before it and the Lamborghini Miura before that.
The Bugatti Veyron 16.4 has the numbers to crush all current competitors just like the F1 before it.
The Veyron has more personality to it than most current sportscars/hypercars. I will never ever have one myself, hell I won't ever see one for as long as I live but I freaking love it.

In every way it is the best car in the modern world.

Is it jealousy that's talking Mr. Dennis?

 

[shad_68]

Clarkson has always hated the F1 and always loved the Veyron.

Not always, when it was still under development (i.e. in older TG episodes) he criticised it for being pointless, much like the F1.
Not really relevant for the topic, but whatever.