Miatabusa... yes a Miata with a Hyabusa engine

Miata isn't that light to make this swap rational. I'd just tune the stock engine, or start with a lighter car.
 
You people are still talking about motorcycle engines lasting 20,000 miles...
NOT TRUE!
 
Well, this is being built to be a LeMons car. Required durability is 20 to 30 hours (including test time, getting itself around pits, etc.). There are no weight requirements, so they can strip it. I believe the D-prepared MX-5s for autocross get into the 1500 to 1600 pound range. This may be a bit heavier due to the roll cage (autocross doesn't require one), or may weight about the same, as they can likely remove some things one couldn't for autocross (mmm, rules). There will be no passenger.
 
equiraptor said:
Well, this is being built to be a LeMons car. Required durability is 20 to 30 hours (including test time, getting itself around pits, etc.). There are no weight requirements, so they can strip it. I believe the D-prepared MX-5s for autocross get into the 1500 to 1600 pound range. This may be a bit heavier due to the roll cage (autocross doesn't require one), or may weight about the same, as they can likely remove some things one couldn't for autocross (mmm, rules). There will be no passenger.
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This isn't a lemons project. This is mostly a project to that A) Dave Coleman wanted to do because he's the kind of guy to sawzall a fairly new nissan sentra into a floor pan with wheels and an engine to hit 14's and B) it'll drive up unique hits to their site.

C3Vette said:
Miata isn't that light to make this swap rational. I'd just tune the stock engine, or start with a lighter car.
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Hyabusa engines routinely push 160-175whp depending on year. A good spec 1.8l in an NA chassis will put down 120 if you're using a competitive spec miata motor. So we drop 150lbs off the front end of the car gain power (and arguably torque thanks to the gear reduction), and now you have access to an aftermarket that is arguably better than the 1.6 or 1.8 liter engines in the miata... can't get a 300cc displacement bump out of either of those.

So imagine consider that the swap alone has the potential to be more reliable than a turbo car for the same or more power, and now you have a superior flowing head to feed a potential 1.6l turbo monster... yeah I don't see that being full of suck.

Regardless of all that, this IS just a project to largely drive up unique hits to their site. Even if the kit is down to $3k, it's the kind of swap one would only realistically do with plenty of cash to throw around or don't want to do the expected v8 swap.

equiraptor said:
Meh, the LS engines are worth more, for their lighter weight. And the LS3 has more POWER!

Powerslide powerslide powerslide powerslide....
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Go LS2, save money over the LS3 and with a couple of minor mods you'll make more power and have a better sounding motor, and access to all the same awesome aftermarket heads the LS1 doesn't get.
 
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thedguy said:
This isn't a lemons project. This is mostly a project to that A) Dave Coleman wanted to do because he's the kind of guy to sawzall a fairly new nissan sentra into a floor pan with wheels and an engine to hit 14's and B) it'll drive up unique hits to their site.
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Ah. I'd mis-read the Jalapnik story about the build. :)

thedguy said:
Go LS2, save money over the LS3 and with a couple of minor mods you'll make more power and have a better sounding motor, and access to all the same awesome aftermarket heads the LS1 doesn't get.
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*shrug* That works. Really, what I'd like to see if I'm putting an LSx in a Miata is right around 500hp. And I'd be putting it in an NC (third gen). Strip the thing out (I'm guessing 2000 to 2200 pounds with the OEM drivetrain - not sure how much the insulation, etc. comes to). But then I'd probably want a rear diffuser, front air dam, and possibly a wing. I'd have to see what worked best for Goodwin on his supercharged NC.
 
thedguy said:
This isn't a lemons project. This is mostly a project to that A) Dave Coleman wanted to do because he's the kind of guy to sawzall a fairly new nissan sentra into a floor pan with wheels and an engine to hit 14's and B) it'll drive up unique hits to their site.



Hyabusa engines routinely push 160-175whp depending on year. A good spec 1.8l in an NA chassis will put down 120 if you're using a competitive spec miata motor. So we drop 150lbs off the front end of the car gain power (and arguably torque thanks to the gear reduction), and now you have access to an aftermarket that is arguably better than the 1.6 or 1.8 liter engines in the miata... can't get a 300cc displacement bump out of either of those.

So imagine consider that the swap alone has the potential to be more reliable than a turbo car for the same or more power, and now you have a superior flowing head to feed a potential 1.6l turbo monster... yeah I don't see that being full of suck.

Regardless of all that, this IS just a project to largely drive up unique hits to their site. Even if the kit is down to $3k, it's the kind of swap one would only realistically do with plenty of cash to throw around or don't want to do the expected v8 swap.



Go LS2, save money over the LS3 and with a couple of minor mods you'll make more power and have a better sounding motor, and access to all the same awesome aftermarket heads the LS1 doesn't get.
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Makes 175whp in a car or in a bike? Seems like two wheels, heavier gearbox and rear end would sap more power than a bike would.
 
LeVeL said:
You mean an LS1
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No, a 302. They sound better and are just cooler. I'm growing tired of LSx swap this LSx swap that. A 302 is more unique. The only Japanese car I'd put an LSx into is an S2000.

equiraptor said:
You mean LS3.
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Nope, too expensive. Not worth it.

LeVeL said:
I was thinking lower cost, similar to the 302 mentioned :p
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Thus the 302 makes more sense. You can pick one up for half the cost of an LS1.

equiraptor said:
Meh, the LS engines are worth more, for their lighter weight. And the LS3 has more POWER!

Powerslide powerslide powerslide powerslide....
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ANY larger engine in that Miata is going to "Powerslide powerslide powerslide powerslide".
 
Meh, I can powerslide my stock powered Miata. I'm still not interested in doing an engine swap unless it'll get me close to 500hp.

I've owned, driven, and raced a variety of Miatas with a variety of power levels. I want either basically OEM power (for the hahaha I have no power but passed you anyway, hahahaha) or absolutely overwhelming power. If I'm going to go to the trouble of an engine swap, I'll save up the money to do it right and do it big.

Oh, and Ford engine in a Miata isn't "More unique." Both Ford and GM V8s in Miatas are commonly done. Ford V8s have been put in Miatas since before there was a second generation of Miata. One person has personally built over 100, and he's sold many more conversion kits. But a problem with any V8 swap in a Miata is weight. The aluminum blocks of the GM engines mean they add less weight and the weight they add is better balanced (the more robust transmission and rear diff add weight, as well, and add weight to the middle and rear of the car). The result is better handling.

And that brings us back to the benefits of the Hayabusa motor in the car - total weight and weight distribution. The powertrain will weigh less, and with 150 pounds removed from the front, it may even get a slight rear weight bias (though that may depend on driver or exactly how the car is stripped). That would be fantastic.
 
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JCE said:
No, a 302. They sound better and are just cooler. I'm growing tired of LSx swap this LSx swap that. A 302 is more unique. The only Japanese car I'd put an LSx into is an S2000.
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Except 302's are still more common than SBC's/LSx's. There has been a kit for years.
 
equiraptor said:
The aluminum blocks of the GM engines mean they add less weight and the weight they add is better balanced (the more robust transmission and rear diff add weight, as well, and add weight to the middle and rear of the car). The result is better handling.
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This. I remember reading about a guy that measured weight distribution before and after swapping an LS1 into his NB Miata and he found that with the V8 the car was closer to 50/50 than with the stock four-banger.
 
That'd have to be because of the way he stripped the weight, LeVeL. It's more common for the LSx Miatas to be 51/49 or 52/48 (the kits for this are relatively new, so most of the swaps have just been "whatever the person could manage"). Still that's better (even if only slightly) than the 53/47 of the primary Ford option ("Monster Miata" is the name, swaps and kits done by a guy named Martin).
 
Hello-

Just got back from Miatafest and we had a great time answering all the Miatabusa questions. There has been so much positive response to the kit we are very excited to finish the prototype and start posting track test data.

Anyhow, to clear up a few things you fellows are talking about in this thread...

I'll first start out with a note about engine longevity for the 'Busa motor. There are lots of un-rebuilt bikes running in the 50k miles range that work just fine. The weak link in any bike engine is the transmission since it is a constant mesh dog box. That type of transmission is by it's very nature a consumable part. The thing is that bike transmissions are expensive to rebuild and once a bike gets older a dead tranny often totals out the whole bike. Hence to rarity of really high mileage bikes. Also, many sport bikes are crashed before they can run for a lot of miles. Using the bike trans for a car is really pushing it and the unit will probably die pretty fast. There are plenty of bike engined cars using the bike trans and they all have headaches with them.

As for how this swap come into being, it was a collaboration between myself, Dave Coleman, and our third team member Tim Taylor. Tim is a fantastic talent as an engineer and machinist and is the person responsible for the actual parts. While we all met doing 24 Hours of LeMons races, we are not making this project for LeMons at all ad while it's being covered by MotoIQ it's not a project for them specifically either. We are just doing this because it looks like a good idea and there seems to be interest in it.

When compared to other potential upgrades to a Miata it's a different idea that appeals to a certain kind of user. It's not about massive H.P. for no good reason. The car we are trying to make is lighter, more powerful, and better balanced than a stock Miata. It's also not that pricey because bike engines are not that expensive due to their high production numbers and propensity to get wrecked. V8 swaps are great for some users but just throw the balance of the car off too much for us and the power does little good on a typical road race track. There will be no shortage of power from the Miatabusa ayway as the Hayabusa engine is well supported by the aftermarket and 300hp is well within reach.

Keep the comments coming.

Alex Vendler
Miatabusa Lab
 
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