Old vs New Car Performance

Bias-ply FTL. They were terrible, but they were better than the tires before them. Anyone remember polyglass? My dad had a Chrysler with them for a short time (he changed the tires not the car) and they would ride funny until they got warmed up. Kind of like a clown car with all the wheels mounted slighty off center. And before 1968(in the USA) tires were not regulated by anyone. *faceplam* I don't even want to know what they were like before that.

Even Bias-Ply tires will lose their roundness if they sit for a long period of time. They have to be driven on to maintain their shape.
 
I wonder how much of that comes down to tires. It's a big factor in grip. Old tires sucked.
They said in the article that the Shelby had semi-modern tires... whatever that means.


A basic family car with a V6 can outrun just about anything from the '70s.
A new V6 Accord, for example, is a pretty fast car. Hell, a late 90s Mustang GT (yes, the V8 one) could barely outrun my old Maxima!
 
Even Bias-Ply tires will lose their roundness if they sit for a long period of time. They have to be driven on to maintain their shape.

They didn't sit for a long time. Over night mostly, or a weekend once in a while. The polyglass would feel weird after a couple of hours. Go shopping/dinner & a movie, get in and drive slowly cause it was bad. Or did you mean: even radials tires.......?
 
I wonder how much of that comes down to tires. It's a big factor in grip. Old tires sucked.

There is nothing preventing one from installing modern tires on an old car. My MG runs on new stuff.
 
I think I'm screwed though because he won't even let me speak in numbers anymore. This thread might be going nowhere I'm afraid, lol.
Tell your brother he's acting like a ricer. :D

1/4 stats? Lap times? Numbers? Facts? Physics? Reality? These things do not exist in the fanboy's world. Unless, of course, they prove the supremacy of "their" car.

I suggest you flip the argument on him. He's making the claims so the burden of proof is on him. Tell him he needs better evidence than his butt-dyno if he's going to go around making claims like that.
 
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Oh yeah, easily.

According to the Motor Trend article an 02 Civic SI has the same 0-60 as a 69 Mach 1.

MotorTrend 0-60 times are not recorded in our version of reality. Unfortunately only they own a transdimensional teleportation device.
 
I'll throw in my 2 cents...

I've been in dyno proven 400hp evo 9's and 480hp 3600lb road runners with a 440. Modern chasis/suspension, tires, efi, etc... has made the even far faster than the Plymouth.

The Plymouth felt a lot faster. I was actually disappointed with how slow the evo felt.

Old cars have a lot of drama to them, wobbly chassis', horrible axle location, axle jacking, wheel hopping, bias ply tires with horrible compounds, little means of cushioning driveline shock and lash, list goes on and on.

Modern cars have anti-squat geometry, superior tire construction , stiffer chassis', superior damper designs, lots of tricks to control shock to the tires and then all of the electronics... all of this adds up to make modern cars very smooth and comfortable while being agile and fast.
 
there shouldn't even be an arguement if the newer cars are faster than the old, technology improves, thus cars can go faster, and actually safer.

but that said, i'd still drive my old car, i'm one of those raving on about soul and such :p
i feel more at home in a old car, than in those generic 5 feet of car that's produced as of late.
sure, those generic 5 feet of car will kick my cars ass in a jiffy, while listening to music on their big stereo, quietly leaving my loud thing in the dust, keeping perfectly temperatured with his AC, maybe sipping something to drink while out cornering my old car.

but i'm still happy in my old thing, it might break down, maybe some old parts will need to be changed... but i can do it myself, getting dirty while kicking the car and learning a whole new repetoar of cusswords.
I can't do that with a new car, i have to deliver it to a shop with a shiney expensive computer, said computer has to ask the car whats wrong with it, then pay a bajillion dollars per hour.
And it does take at least an hour, even if it's just a lightbulb, cause the new car is made so you aren't allowed to change the bulb yourself, you have to have a trained professional handle that you know!
back into something? half the car comes apart, and you have to pay another bajillion dollars to get new shiney plastic parts! it's much safer that way, which is true... if you crash properly, but a little nudge? you have to replace half the car, including the interior, cause 25 airbags went off, probably injuring you more than the nudge would have, throwing pieces of the dashboard in your face with explosive force.

but i'm just weird... and rant a lot :p
 
back into something? half the car comes apart, and you have to pay another bajillion dollars to get new shiney plastic parts! it's much safer that way, which is true... if you crash properly, but a little nudge?

Except for the expense park my '78 MG is just like that. How modern of it.
 
A little nudge on our modern cars leaves no mark, because the plastic can flex. Just avoid nudging with a tow bar.
 
I can't do that with a new car, i have to deliver it to a shop with a shiney expensive computer, said computer has to ask the car whats wrong with it, then pay a bajillion dollars per hour.
And it does take at least an hour, even if it's just a lightbulb, cause the new car is made so you aren't allowed to change the bulb yourself, you have to have a trained professional handle that you know!
What are you talking about? My car has a computer and I fix a lot of the stuff that goes wrong with it myself. Same goes for my friend with an STi. And another with a new GTI. And another with an Evo. And another with a 135i.
 
there shouldn't even be an arguement if the newer cars are faster than the old, technology improves, thus cars can go faster, and actually safer.

but that said, i'd still drive my old car, i'm one of those raving on about soul and such :p
i feel more at home in a old car, than in those generic 5 feet of car that's produced as of late.
sure, those generic 5 feet of car will kick my cars ass in a jiffy, while listening to music on their big stereo, quietly leaving my loud thing in the dust, keeping perfectly temperatured with his AC, maybe sipping something to drink while out cornering my old car.

but i'm still happy in my old thing, it might break down, maybe some old parts will need to be changed... but i can do it myself, getting dirty while kicking the car and learning a whole new repetoar of cusswords.
I can't do that with a new car, i have to deliver it to a shop with a shiney expensive computer, said computer has to ask the car whats wrong with it, then pay a bajillion dollars per hour.
And it does take at least an hour, even if it's just a lightbulb, cause the new car is made so you aren't allowed to change the bulb yourself, you have to have a trained professional handle that you know!
back into something? half the car comes apart, and you have to pay another bajillion dollars to get new shiney plastic parts! it's much safer that way, which is true... if you crash properly, but a little nudge? you have to replace half the car, including the interior, cause 25 airbags went off, probably injuring you more than the nudge would have, throwing pieces of the dashboard in your face with explosive force.

but i'm just weird... and rant a lot :p

Ignorance is bliss, I guess. Even with the Passat, one of the more complicated modern cars, basic maintenance can be done yourself, with the correct tools. Older does not always mean better, sometimes it only means worse.
 
Ignorance is bliss, I guess. Even with the Passat, one of the more complicated modern cars, basic maintenance can be done yourself, with the correct tools. Older does not always mean better, sometimes it only means worse.

There is also the fact that newer cars tend to require less maintenance and in general develop complex issues much later in life, meaning that a large number of people never actually see them.
 
Alright, I seriously thought this thread died.

I might as well add some more "fuel to the fire" on both sides.

1.My brother has driven probably 8x the amount of car's I've driven.

2. He knows the technical side just about as well as I do. ( never went to automotive school / 3 years experience in commercial garage)

3. He loves old cars ( this obviously means a lot.)

4. he told me he has driven a new 5.0 Mustang but as of now I don't believe it for a second.

5. I know enough about engines to tell you all that the 1976 Camaro in question has between 285hp and 325hp ( 320-400lb/ft est.)

6. My brother keeps stressing about the rear end gear ratios and the Hurst shift kit installed.

7. The tires are new fat radials ( p275/45/R16 all around)

I was going to make a longer list but I ran out of ideas, I never expected this thread to last this long ( not long I know) and I'm not sure what else to say.

Spectre and Tigger have both mentioned strong points, but most of you have also struck the right area as well.

I'm now thinking it really is about the feeling of an older car. I know myself older cars are more dramatic and thus, can seem a whole lot faster because of it.

Coming back to my brother hating my mentioning of numbers it all makes sense now. I've considered modern cars and their ability to mask power and speed but I never really made the connection. Next time we get into the argument I'll have to ask him if he's sure it doesn't just feel like it's faster.

I have a lot of respect for my brother and he is a smart guy but I know I'm right about this and I just had an entire internet forum basically approve me. I'll see how this goes, lol
 
I have a lot of respect for my brother and he is a smart guy but I know I'm right about this and I just had an entire internet forum basically approve me.
that's right, we are the authority on all things automotive
fuck_yeah.gif


:p
 
and once again Final Gear misses the point of exaggeration for the sake of humor, i'd have thought a forum based around Top Gear would get that sort of sillyness, but i'm proven wrong again, Intarmawebs is srs business!
 
and once again Final Gear misses the point of exaggeration for the sake of humor, i'd have thought a forum based around Top Gear would get that sort of sillyness, but i'm proven wrong again, Intarmawebs is srs business!


Unless you're using a picture or an emoticon, humour is often lost on the internet. Tone and intent cannot be heard by text.
 
Bias-Ply?

What are these?
Here in the UK we got Cross-Ply tyres (the same as Bias-Ply?) until they were largely phased out during the 1970s and replaced with radial tyres...
I know the Cross-Plys are generaly seen as far worse and I can't say I'd have a car fitted with them as from what I've read the range from being bad on flat level ground to being terrifiying in wet weather and under heavy cornering.
Besides you can get modern radials for classic cars over here, although it might mess up the ride height or suspension settings, and make the steering heavier. I see it as a must if you plan on driving in modern traffic condition on a regular basis at least.
 
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