PhD or not to PhD, that is the question

[otispunkmeyer]

What Hajj said. Seriuosly, most engineering people end up going into finance because the engineering mindset is excellent for investment analysis, etc.

I plan on making my way into the financial world. Its an interest I've nurtured on the side for a while now, and I think I'd like to take it up as a career. Maybe its just my personality and attributes, but I'm not the kind of person that can hold down a normal 9-5 job. For example, whilst many people can often continually chisel away at something I'm someone who has moment of insanely high productivity then slumps back down afterwards. I'm just not good at "conventional" jobs, so to speak.

id have to make sure i wasnt going to be chained to MS excel before i took that decision. i hate doing it at Alstom, there is no way im gonna like doing it at a bank, despite being paid 2-3 times as much

 

[nsx_23]

id have to make sure i wasnt going to be chained to MS excel before i took that decision. i hate doing it at Alstom, there is no way im gonna like doing it at a bank, despite being paid 2-3 times as much

Nah, not working for a finance company, but rather investing on my own and with a few friends of mine who share a common interest. It'll be something I develop on the side whilst working a few part-time jobs.

Its not as ambitious as it sounds, and with some level-headed thinking it could work out well for me.

 

[hajj]

The people in quantitative research that I know mostly work with Matlab But well, you will be spending most of your time behind a computer screen, actually make that two.

 

[nsx_23]

Lol, I've been using Matlab and mathematica for the last 3 years.

What about those with 3 monitors

 

[Cobol74]

So im still looking for credible ways out of my current situation at my company.

ive been on site out in south africa for the past nearly 2 months, which has been much fun despite spending the majority of my time stuck in a sweaty cabin doing check sheets in excel or being a general secretary. what time i have been on the turbine floor has been either to watch or maybe unpack a box or two. i cant say ive learned too much about how powerstation turbines are built up because ive missed most of the major stuff. disappointing really.

never mind, an avenue has opened up. Whilst the only job i can seem to get my hooks in to with a local consultancy is still on the cards (they just landed a ?1m deal with the Chinese to built a special test rig). They are undecided on whether they need more engineers and i have begun to think PhD. I will keep reminding them that im here and willing to drop everything to come work for them.

I fired off a few mails to lecturers who i know, and who know me, whom i found thoroughly interesting and enjoyable to see if they had any interesting PhD's going. in an amazing coincidence, my favorite IC engines lecturer got back saying he was looking for a good candidate to do one of his PhD's in devising a plasma cleaning device for Diesel Particulate Filter Regeneration.

its gonna involve lots of testing on engines, X-Rays, Laser measurements a healthy dose of physics and a lot of electronics, its a very practical PhD, not a lot of time spent developing theory. physics and electronics are my 2 best strengths! its being done in conjunction with caterpillar and a local company called 3D X-Ray. its sounds very promising and its enticing me to say yes every day.

ill still need to go through interviews though, but as the guys know me already and know what im like, i figure i might have a head start. and they always say they want more "home" students to do the PhD's.

so its 3 years, starts on ?15k tax free rising to 17k tax free by the end of the final year. money wise this appears to be a substantial cut in my income, but a)being tax exempt and b) uni being 3 minutes bike ride away means once the dust is settled with bills and not having to own my car (i can share the wifes,and it is costing me ?250/mo to get to work) ill actually be better off than staying at Alstom for another 3 years. And it may well open up great job prospects with the 2 companies involved.

i need to man up and make a decision, i know myself that i become very indecisive with big decisions. do PhD's do anything for your future career? or will i be playing catch up because i decided to do something interesting for 3 years? should i hold out for a job that might materialise at this consultancy? i do not know!!!! gah!

Education is usally good just for itself. You would have to think very carefully about your career direction if you get the PhD - being a dogs body is not appropriate. Who wants PhDs to work for them is the key question? Or. ...

You will have the key credibility to start your own consultancy! More than that, during your time you will collect people who you will respect their ability and like - you can think about offering them jobs too, or may be offering a partnership also.

Good Luck Mate.

 

[otispunkmeyer]

matlab is cool , i quite enjoy coding every now and then. just need to find something where your not stuck on the same thing for too long. variety is key

and 2 screens ? blessing... i have to make do with a tiny laptop screen with a poor resolution. it even makes multitasking in XP/Excel hard. not too mention the stock 512mb of ram. i mean seriously, this is 2010, the laptops got a C2D in it, and it came with 512 onboard memory. i had to buy a stick from crucial because the IT bods were too tight to upgrade it for me. unbelievable, its just as well they didnt ask me to do any design work.

 

[nsx_23]

Cadding on something like that = lolz.

I hate doing coding and CFD. CFD is tedious, can't predict things accurately, and it only tells you want you already know :lol:

 

[hajj]

An engineering company that doesn't hand out up to date tech? You may want to get out of there as quickly as possible.

 

[otispunkmeyer]

Education is usally good just for itself. You would have to think very carefully about your career direction if you get the PhD - being a dogs body is not appropriate. Who wants PhDs to work for them is the key question? Or. ...

You will have the key credibility to start your own consultancy! More than that, during your time you will collect people who you will respect their ability and like - you can think about offering them jobs too, or may be offering a partnership also.

Good Luck Mate.

this is one thing, i need to ask this question on thursday when i have a skype discussion with the guys running the PhD. the PhD might put me 3 years behind in the work sense, but as its with caterpillar (via perkins diesel engines) and this consultancy 3D-XRay, there could be a nice job to walk straight into once im finished and as they'd know me and what i can do, id hope to go in above the graduate level here. obviously if i had to go out and find another job, i wouldnt expect to start anywhere other than the bottom, with the grads, because thats essentially where ill stand experience wise.

if i wanna move abroad to australia, or canada though, i think experience and chartership status might be more useful. i need to weigh it up, pros n cons.

 

[nsx_23]

An engineering company that doesn't hand out up to date tech? You may want to get out of there as quickly as possible.

Well, not all companies can hand out up-to-date tech regularly. Its all about needs.

If he was trying to do intensive CAD drawing and solve FEA/CFD, on the other hand, I'd be extremely worried.

this is one thing, i need to ask this question on thursday when i have a skype discussion with the guys running the PhD. the PhD might put me 3 years behind in the work sense, but as its with caterpillar (via perkins diesel engines) and this consultancy 3D-XRay, there could be a nice job to walk straight into once im finished and as they'd know me and what i can do, id hope to go in above the graduate level here. obviously if i had to go out and find another job, i wouldnt expect to start anywhere other than the bottom, with the grads, because thats essentially where ill stand experience wise.

if i wanna move abroad to australia, or canada though, i think experience and chartership status might be more useful. i need to weigh it up, pros n cons.

I don't want to be a party-spolier, but having experience of this shit I'd say don't necessarily expect a job out of it with Caterpillar or the consultancy firm. Even then, I doubt working for a large firm like Caterpillar would give you that big change in corporate environment you want.

 

[LP]

I was at a crossroads, wondering if PhD was the right thing to do.

Then I slapped myself, came back to reality and realized that it was.

All of the opportunities for me (including teaching) require at least a masters, so what's the point in having just a bachelors in astrophysics.


I say go for it. You'll get paid by fellowships so you can eat and sleep. You'll be doing research that you're passionate about and be advancing your knowledge in it. And in the end, while your friends are still Tim and Bob, you'll be Dr. Punkmeyer.

 

[nsx_23]

PhDs make sense for science degrees, but not engineering unless you want to become a researcher/lecturer.

 

[otispunkmeyer]

An engineering company that doesn't hand out up to date tech? You may want to get out of there as quickly as possible.

came complete with a knackered hinge as well.... kushdi

this is a big company too... not a struggling upstart.

they had a right fight over the workstation laptops for the Catia guys. they need 64bit machines so that can have oodles of ram to work on big models, but the IT guys wont budge and keep offering 32bit machines because they are cheaper. they are cheaper but they wont get the job done. you cant store some of the full turbine models in 3.5 gig of ram.

its ok tho, the basic design codes they use are nearly 40 years old, written by the french.... the units are a mess lol and in the input is even more infuriating. you have to fill out a txt file with the right things in the right columns, and it has to be set to UNIX because it all runs on old school sun systems or virtual UNIX computers.

i mean they work fine, if it aint broke, why fix it.... but surely if you just got someone to transcribe the code to a newer platform, you can cut out the need to keep hold of all this UNIX and sun crap.

 

[otispunkmeyer]

Well, not all companies can hand out up-to-date tech regularly. Its all about needs.

If he was trying to do intensive CAD drawing and solve FEA/CFD, on the other hand, I'd be extremely worried.



I don't want to be a party-spolier, but having experience of this shit I'd say don't necessarily expect a job out of it with Caterpillar or the consultancy firm. Even then, I doubt working for a large firm like Caterpillar would give you that big change in corporate environment you want.

i suppose , no harm in asking thouhg

perhaps if they really want me to do this PhD, maybe they'll guarantee some form of employment (especially 3D Xray because they are a smallish company, that i like the look of)

 

[Cobol74]

No I mean start your own consultancy collecting contacts on your way - keep people's business cards, write up any meetings and what the people do - may want to buy your skills in the future - let people know that you are going to do this, may be they can help.

Still, probably best now to get as highly skilled as you can.

 

[nsx_23]

came complete with a knackered hinge as well.... kushdi

this is a big company too... not a struggling upstart.

they had a right fight over the workstation laptops for the Catia guys. they need 64bit machines so that can have oodles of ram to work on big models, but the IT guys wont budge and keep offering 32bit machines because they are cheaper. they are cheaper but they wont get the job done. you cant store some of the full turbine models in 3.5 gig of ram.

its ok tho, the basic design codes they use are nearly 40 years old, written by the french.... the units are a mess lol and in the input is even more infuriating. you have to fill out a txt file with the right things in the right columns, and it has to be set to UNIX because it all runs on old school sun systems or virtual UNIX computers.

i mean they work fine, if it aint broke, why fix it.... but surely if you just got someone to transcribe the code to a newer platform, you can cut out the need to keep hold of all this UNIX and sun crap.

What the fuck, you'd think Alstom would invest in decent tech, especially when you're trying to squeeze out every last bit of efficiency. How the hell do you guys run comprehensive CFD and FEA models on the turbine then? Magic?

i suppose , no harm in asking thouhg

perhaps if they really want me to do this PhD, maybe they'll guarantee some form of employment (especially 3D Xray because they are a smallish company, that i like the look of)

You'd have better luck with a smaller firm IMO.

No I mean start your own consultancy collecting contacts on your way - keep people's business cards, write up any meetings and what the people do - may want to buy your skills in the future - let people know that you are going to do this, may be they can help.

Still, probably best now to get as highly skilled as you can.

I think consultancy would be an interesting option. It'd take a long time to build up your cred though.

 

[otispunkmeyer]

What the fuck, you'd think Alstom would invest in decent tech, especially when you're trying to squeeze out every last bit of efficiency. How the hell do you guys run comprehensive CFD and FEA models on the turbine then? Magic?

well as graduates they wont let you go anywhere near that stuff.... and besides nearly all of that is handled in baden, switzerland. the guys who do it obviously do have good machines, and the CFD stuff is mostly run on a big server farm, they just send the model over to it and use a command line to run it

You'd have better luck with a smaller firm IMO.

yeah, from my experience its just an easier way for them to get good people... they dont have the budget or the time to employ wastrels in HR to come do a load of BS interviews. (i was interviewed by HR for an engineering place...they had no idea what i was talking about, thankfully 2 engineers did the final one). the small firm im trying to get into in derby operates this way, he takes on the odd PhD'er he's been involved with the others he hires through word of mouth basically... if one of his current employees says "this person is top drawer" then he gets them in for interview. it works because the company is so small.

I think consultancy would be an interesting option. It'd take a long time to build up your cred though.

yeah it does take a while, and you need contacts or else you will not get any work. the guy i want to work for basically worked for RR for years, then broke off to start his own consultancy and brought half of his team at RR with him. hes got all the contacts at RR an he does a lot of work for them. he's in his 50's now though...

 

[nsx_23]

Well if you really want to do the PhD then go ahead, but I'd just say think carefully about where you want to head with your career first.

We're all doing it tough in this economy, and the fact that most people don't even know what engineers do doesn't help.

 

[otispunkmeyer]

^ it is fun telling some one that your working at a power station replacing the steam turbines and all you get back is a o_0 vacant but confused look. i almost want to say so long as electricity comes out your wall when you flip the switch, dont worry about it, we'll take care of the "magic/witchcraft/untold forces" that make the leccy.

most people just dont care,i bet alot of say BMW drivers couldnt care if all their cars became FWD or something...so long as its got a BMW badge and is able to terrorize the outside lane on the M1.

and i think we're gonna have to just get used to the fact that the majority of people really will never know what engineers/scientists do outside of the stereo typical things like wearing a white coat in a lab and fixing a car. practically everything we touch had to be engineered, years of theory and experience gone into the design to make it work, the same with manufacturing to make the damn things and make sure theyre up to spec.

its very much "cant see the wood for the trees". you just dont notice it... hell im an engineer and even i sometimes dont notice, or stop to think about just how this thing im holding came to be. just one of those things, no one will appreciate until its gone.

same with money and banks ... long as the money comes out the hole in the wall, to hell with how it got there. but if these things suddenly ceased to exist... we'd be fucked. and we nearly were fucked when some of these banks did indeed cease to exist.

 

[nsx_23]

Engineering's just not what is used to be anymore.