2011 Lancia Ypsilon/Chrysler small hatchback

MacGuffin said:
I believe, that an Alfa Romeo brand under the roof of VW will have many freedoms, especially when it comes to design language. The technology underneath might be from VW or Audi but frankly that doesn't matter at all. It's like cooking: It's not the ingredients, that make a difference, but how you use them. Even with the same ingredients you can create something very different. And that is what Fiat obiously is unable or unwilling to do.
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Let's try to create a new Alfa range under the VW ownership:

Super-mini:

The new Mito would be a Polo/A1/Ibiza/Fabia brother with a 1.4 TSI with 180 hp and a 7sp DSG gearbox, instead of the current 6sp manual 170 hp 1.4 Turbo MultiAir, as the top of the range, not exactly a very characterful car then. Then we would have the TDI versions which wouldn't be much better than the old JTDm units in many aspects I suppose. Where do you positionate the car in terms of interior quality and price? Between the Polo and the A1? How many of then would you sell outside of Italy?

Compact car:

The new Giulietta would be a Golf/Scirocco/A3/Leon brother with a FWD or pseudo-AWD 2.0 TFSI with 270 hp, instead of the 235 hp 1.75 TBi, as the top of the range, not exactly a very characterful car then. Then we would have the TDI versions which wouldn't be much better than the old JTDm units in many aspects I suppose. Where do you positionate the car in terms of interior quality and price? Between the Golf and the A3? How many of then would you sell outside of Italy?

Sedan:

The new 159 under VW would probably be a Passat brother wich means it would be a FWD or pseudo-AWD car with a worse chassis and transmission than its predecessor, which would be between the Passat and the A4 in terms of price and interior quality, etc. How many of then would you sell outside of Italy?

Top of the range:

A car based in the old A6? Any other ideas?

Maybe they would improve the marketing of the brand (that's what the VAG guys are masters at), the built quality and reliablity (not so sure about that) and the dealer nets in certain countries (VAG standards are not very high in that respect imho) but apart from that I don't see them doing much better under the VW umbrella.
 
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It's interesting to see, how everyone seems to know exactly, what is going to happen, if...

Hey guys... you don't have to worry about Alfas losing character. It's already gone! That comicbook design they currently have, is not character.

If I... ahem... may quote Jeremy Clarkson from his review of the new Giulietta, who definitely is under no suspicion of being an Alfa hater: "This car, then, is odd. It is an Alfa. It says so on the back. But it most definitely isn't an Alfa. They should have called it the Car. Because that, I'm afraid to say, is all it is."

:)
 
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MacGuffin said:
It's interesting to see, how everyone seems to know exactly, what is going to happen, if...

Hey guys... you don't have to worry about Alfas losing character. It's already gone! That comicbook design they currently have, is not character.

If I... ahem... may quote Jeremy Clarkson from his review of the new Giulietta, who definitely is under no suspicion of being an Alfa hater: "This car, then, is odd. It is an Alfa. It says so on the back. But it most definitely isn't an Alfa. They should have called it the Car. Because that, I'm afraid to say, is all it is."

:)
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And that, knowing how they work, wouldn't be different if Alfa was owned by VW.

VW wanted SEAT to compete with Alfa but at the same time they pretty much forced them (if building a car cost you X and you have to pay X-2 to the company that owns you for the engines, chassis, transmission,etc. you'll never have too much left for the bits that people see and touch when they are in the car) to be cheaper inside than the equivalent VWs and have less versions (no AWD or 3rd Leon, an old A4 as their flagship model, etc.) so that they couldn't compete with their mother company.

Why should that change with Alfa? And if they treated Alfa differently, allowing them all those privileges that they denied to SEAT, why not spending that money in a brand that you already own to allow then to become a proper Alfa competitor?


And BTW, I consider the Giulietta to be much better looking than any compact car produced by VAG at the moment. Not to talk about a comparison between the 159 and that abomination that is the new Passat...
 
Alfa Romeo is one of the most valuable brands in the car industry with one of the greatest pedigree. It's much easier to make them successful again, than Seat, which didn't have an own identity since the late 1990's or so. Never underestimate the power of brands. You can see by this very discussion, how powerful the Alfa Romeo brand name still is. There is a certain irrationality in it, though, since the current cars are only shadows of a greater past.

Looks are a matter of taste of course. I think the Mito and the Giulietta have a design language, that will be looked back at as an accident in 10 years or so. An Alfa design needs to say "I'm fast and mean, get out of the way" but the Mito and te Giulietta try to look more like "hug me, I'm a puppy". The Brera was the last really good-looking Alfa. But that is only my opinion.

I also am not fully convinced about the current VW design language but taken for granted, that they will do the same to Alfa, if they should buy it, is a bit far-fetched. By the way: The current VW chief designer Walter de Silva also came from Alfa Romeo ;)
 
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MacGuffin said:
Alfa Romeo is one of the most valuable brands in the car industry with one of the greatest pedigree. It's much easier to make them successful again, than Seat, which didn't have an own identity since the late 1990's or so. Never underestimate the power of brands. You can see by this very discussion, how powerful the Alfa Romeo brand name still is. There is a certain irrationality in it, though, since the current cars are only shadows of a greater past.

Looks are a matter of taste of course. I think the Mito and the Giulietta have a design language, that will be looked back at as an accident in 10 years or so. An Alfa design needs to say "I'm fast and mean, get out of the way" but the Mito and te Giulietta try to look more like "hug me, I'm a puppy". The Brera was the last really good-looking Alfa. But that is only my opinion.

I also am not fully convinced about the current VW design language but taken for granted, that they will do the same to Alfa, if they should buy it, is a bit far-fetched. By the way: The current VW chief designer Walter de Silva also came from Alfa Romeo ;)
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From a marketing point of view, Alfa would probably be more succesful after being bought by VW, but I don't see their cars being any better than they currently are.

When talking about the design I meant that, right now, I consider Alfas to be much better looking than VWs, not that they 'd look like VWs if VW bought them.
 
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Well that is hideous.
 
You can say what you want but that is a hideous thing.

Where are the "burn it with fire!" comments?
 
Not so nice. The original sketches looked really good, but in the flesh it's like a PT Cruiser mated with a Fiat Bravo.
 
Donington said:
Not so nice. The original sketches looked really good, but in the flesh it's like a PT Cruiser mated with a Fiat Bravo.
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Yeah, using the teleportation chamber from "The Fly".
 
Designed by 11 different italian kindergardens.
 
That's not gone well has it?


*somebody had to say it*
 
It looks classier than its rivals and it's 10-15 cm. shorter than them, which is a good thing IMO.
 
That was a good one :lol:

It was irony, wasn't it? :unsure:
 
Why did they put all the important instruments in the middle? Why are they tilted away from the driver? The front end is terrible. It looks like a fish. Who thinks that hoodline and side profile looks good? There are better looking things coming out of China. The radio console looks like it came from China. At least it will be produced in Fiats best factory, says Marchionne, Tychy in Poland.

But I can't imagine them selling nearly enough to make it viable, and if this is Lancias weapon for the re-introduction into Europe, it's a mission impossible. The "Thema" at least looks decent, but the two engine choices of 3,6 or 5,0 liters will make it an odd brand car with high running costs without the prestige attached to superior german rivals.
 
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Well, the Thema to me is a bit like a burger shouting: "Look at me, I'm now a pizza!"

No one will buy it (literally and metonymically)
 
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