Random thoughts.... [Tech Edition]

Maybe too far ahead of the curve on the Thunderbolt... you get no USB 3.0, no eSATA but you do get Thunderbolt which nobody has even announced products for.
Actually a shitload of products have been announced :)

Apple and Intel have a very very close relationships the Sandy Bridge MBPs had the fixed chipset before anyone else.
 
And Lightpeak(Thunderbolt is a stupid name) can be used for usb communication.
 
Actually a shitload of products have been announced :)

Mainstream consumer products? I'm thinking of cheap external storage or SOHO peripherals.

Point is, a high-end computer needs at least one eSATA or USB 3.0 port regardless of how ready it is for future technologies.

Well, actually my point wasn't even that, it was a mere observation that Apple is either really quick or really slow on adopting technologies... but people like to argue over anything Apple related and so here we are.


And Lightpeak(Thunderbolt is a stupid name) can be used for usb communication.

Is that with or without an adapter? And do you get better than USB 2.0 transfer speeds then?
 
Dunno, but I read that somewhere.

I'm a little excited about the Samsung Infuse, because it'll be the first US phone with SAMOLED+, and is likely to be announced this weekend.
 
I think the only thing Thunderbolt is outright compatible with is DisplayPort, you need adapters for other types of connections. It would be interesting to see if a USB 3.0 drive would achieve maximum speed hooked up to a Thunderbolt port with an adapter, but my guess would be no.
 
Why not? ThunderPeak is faster.
 
Mainstream consumer products? I'm thinking of cheap external storage or SOHO peripherals.
Those don't need any speed. I have a NAS (made out of a desktop) that runs RAID 0 SATA drives and the best I can get is about 50MB/s reads (something like 440mbps) that falls quite neatly within even USB 2 spec. Really only things that could use the bandwidth would be high speed flash drives or high end video equipment. Neither are all that critical at consumer level at this time.
Well, actually my point wasn't even that, it was a mere observation that Apple is either really quick or really slow on adopting technologies... but people like to argue over anything Apple related and so here we are.
Apple has an "interesting" way of handling tech. They tend to have superior or cutting edge tech that is somewhat niche, they had the firewire, which was quite a bit faster than USB at the time but failed to take off, they been using display port for years now even came up with the miniDP meanwhile DSUB is still king for compatibility (especially in business world with projectors and such). Now you got TB, which admittedly seems to be gaining some traction with a few of the higher end peripherals announced and Intel having it built into their chipsets. I do think it was an omission on Apple's part to still have USB2 instead of 3 in their machines.
Point is, a high-end computer needs at least one eSATA or USB 3.0 port regardless of how ready it is for future technologies.
Not really though, right now the iMac and MBP are the only ones to have TB ports. iMac is a very consumer oriented product, it will not have any high end peripherals plugged into it, its basically going to be iPods and digital cameras getting plugged into it, neither need any kind of speed. MBPs are somewhat different as they have both consumer users and "industry" users. The thing with the latter though is that they are the ones who are likely to buy the high end TB products.
It makes no difference whatsoever for the MacPro users of course because no matter what it's a desktop and if you want to put an add-on card into it you absolutely can.

The main omission Apple has made IMO is a TB based "docking station" type of a product (this is actually something Anandtech mentioned as well) for those who use their MBPs to do work and have a need for expanded I/O. A single device that plugs into the high speed port and has external video, ethernet, eSata, etc... would be quite useful.
 
Those don't need any speed. I have a NAS (made out of a desktop) that runs RAID 0 SATA drives and the best I can get is about 50MB/s reads (something like 440mbps) that falls quite neatly within even USB 2 spec. Really only things that could use the bandwidth would be high speed flash drives or high end video equipment. Neither are all that critical at consumer level at this time.

What? So you're saying that all these people buying USB 3.0 or eSATA external drives should just save their money and buy a USB 2.0 drive?


Not really though, right now the iMac and MBP are the only ones to have TB ports. iMac is a very consumer oriented product, it will not have any high end peripherals plugged into it, its basically going to be iPods and digital cameras getting plugged into it, neither need any kind of speed. MBPs are somewhat different as they have both consumer users and "industry" users. The thing with the latter though is that they are the ones who are likely to buy the high end TB products.
It makes no difference whatsoever for the MacPro users of course because no matter what it's a desktop and if you want to put an add-on card into it you absolutely can.

Yeah, iPhones and iPods don't need any more speed when connecting to your computer. It's totally fine for it to spend an hour backing up every time you connect to iTunes... not.

And what do you mean not really? You yourself admitted in the previous paragraph of your post that it "was an omission on Apple's part to still have USB2 instead of 3." I don't understand what you are disagreeing with, all I said was a $2,000 computer in 2011 needs USB 3.0, which is exactly what you admitted before.
 
At some point, the speed limitation is not in the connection, but in the hardware itself. Sure you can connect up an iPod with USB 5.0, but if the flash memory can only read/write so fast, it doesn't matter. Of course I have no idea what that point is or if it has been reached.
 
What? So you're saying that all these people buying USB 3.0 or eSATA external drives should just save their money and buy a USB 2.0 drive?
Yeah pretty much, I had to back up all my stuff to external drives for the NAS project because the drives that go into NAS have to be formated to UFS and my writes were under 100mbps (10MB/s or so) my reads when I was transferring stuff back were somewhere around 200mbps (25MB/s or so). Nowhere near the limitation of USB2. eSATA and USB 3 start making sense when you get high end external RAID drives and they are already announcing those with TB.
Yeah, iPhones and iPods don't need any more speed when connecting to your computer. It's totally fine for it to spend an hour backing up every time you connect to iTunes... not.
More or less what thevictor390 said, limitation is generally in the storage not the bus. Not even the iPhone 3G on my old Windows machine took that long, it takes maybe a minute or two to do a backup on my IP4 and maybe 20-30 minutes for a full 16GB sync.
And what do you mean not really? You yourself admitted in the previous paragraph of your post that it "was an omission on Apple's part to still have USB2 instead of 3." I don't understand what you are disagreeing with, all I said was a $2,000 computer in 2011 needs USB 3.0, which is exactly what you admitted before.
I see no reason NOT to put USB3 on a modern laptop simply because its available. However I don't think that it's something that you NEED. To use myself as an example it makes no difference to me if I have USB2 or 3 the only thing I plug in is my iPhone everything else is network based.
 
Had a big scare just now as I've never encountered this before.

Ok so here's my set up:

120 GB SSD with windows 7 and all my applications installed on it
300 GB 7200 RPM HD for storage
CD drive
Lack of brain

I was playing with partitions to try and install either linux or mac os on the other hard drive. I have mac os 8 and I was curious to see if it would even work. While doing so I set the other partition on my SSD as the primary partitions, making 2. I formatted the other drive, dicked around and restarted to install.

"BootMgr missing
Ctrl-Alt-Del to reset"

Holy fuck.

I couldn't boot from the DVD drive from some reason, I couldn't boot from my asshole, I couldn't do shit but I managed to get into the bios.

I somehow forced it to boot from DVD after dicking around in the settings, and popped in the win7 dvd. Then did a repair on the disk, it said it found some problems and repaired it. I went back in the bios and set it to SSD.

"BootMgr bla bla
Ctrl-Alt-LOL"

So I went back in to the bios again, set it to DVD again, repaired it one more 'gain and it finally fucking repaired and booted off the SSD.

Holy crap man, I thought I had lost everything just then.
 
I'm totally confused...

I admit I don't know the theoretical maximum speed of any of these interfaces, but I do know copying a file to a USB 2.0 drive attached directly to you computer is a hell of a lot slower than a USB 3.0 device would be.
 
:nod: Using an external HDD through USB2.0 is slower than through eSATA, hence it should also be slower than through USB3.0 (can't test that). Somewhere in the order of three times faster for eSATA vs USB2.0 with my drive.
 
I'm totally confused...

I admit I don't know the theoretical maximum speed of any of these interfaces, but I do know copying a file to a USB 2.0 drive attached directly to you computer is a hell of a lot slower than a USB 3.0 device would be.
Maybe I didn't explain it right...
When you are dealing with external peripherals you have two factors for speed:
1) The throughput of the interface (basically how much data you can push through the pipe)
2) The speed of the storage device itself.

So lets say you have an HDD that is capable of write speed of 400mbps and a port that is capable of 500mbps (made up numbers obviously). In this scenario if you up the port speed to 1000mbps it won't make a difference in your transfer speed because the drive will be the bottleneck. Now if you have a drive that can go up to 700mbps and a port that does 500mbps, then upgrading your port speed will make a difference.

There are some other things involved here. When you are transferring one big file your speed will be higher than transferring a bunch of small ones because you are not wasting time on seek and creating new file and all that overhead. Also when you are going USB to SATA for instance you have some translation overhead because the controller has to convert between one standard of data transfer and another. This is one of the reasons why I only see about 440mbps out of my NAS despite it sitting on a 1000mbps connection, I'm sure the drives are capable of more speed but translation overhead kills you.

There is also the actual speed of your computer to think about. For instance iPhone syncs on my old laptop took longer than they do on the new one, simply because new one is faster so it can process w/e needs to be processed quicker.
Using an external HDD through USB2.0 is slower than through eSATA, hence it should also be slower than through USB3.0 (can't test that). Somewhere in the order of three times faster for eSATA vs USB2.0 with my drive.
What drive are you using? I wonder if its down to SATA vs USB in so far as there being less overhead in SATA-to-SATA connections because even with new drives my speeds are nowhere near the limit of USB2. Wish I had some USB3 drives to test my work laptop's dock station has one.
 
Had a big scare just now as I've never encountered this before.

Ok so here's my set up:

120 GB SSD with windows 7 and all my applications installed on it
300 GB 7200 RPM HD for storage
CD drive
Lack of brain

I was playing with partitions to try and install either linux or mac os on the other hard drive. I have mac os 8 and I was curious to see if it would even work. While doing so I set the other partition on my SSD as the primary partitions, making 2. I formatted the other drive, dicked around and restarted to install.

"BootMgr missing
Ctrl-Alt-Del to reset"

Holy fuck.

I couldn't boot from the DVD drive from some reason, I couldn't boot from my asshole, I couldn't do shit but I managed to get into the bios.

I somehow forced it to boot from DVD after dicking around in the settings, and popped in the win7 dvd. Then did a repair on the disk, it said it found some problems and repaired it. I went back in the bios and set it to SSD.

"BootMgr bla bla
Ctrl-Alt-LOL"

So I went back in to the bios again, set it to DVD again, repaired it one more 'gain and it finally fucking repaired and booted off the SSD.

Holy crap man, I thought I had lost everything just then.

To answer your original question, Mac OS 8 won't even begin to work, it's designed for a completely different processor architecture. Just like old Macs couldn't run Windows.
 
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