Autocar: US faces 74mpg eco target

That American Girl said:
Ding! Ding! Ding!

Thats the problem here in the States. They wont sell us the really good cars that look good, AND make sense.
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I've been mostly staying out of this because I don't have time to treat it properly but I can't let this go. Correction: They can't sell us the diesels because they don't meet our emissions standards. Diesel residue is carcinogenic, and many of the Euro so-called 'clean diesels' actually produce more (sometimes far more) than are allowed by US standards. They cannot pass US particulates standards even with their particulate traps installed. In Europe, 'clean diesel' (as best I can tell from reading) seems to mean that they produce less CO2 with particulate control as a secondary concern. Which, as a former Los Angeles ('the nation's smog lab') resident, I think is completely backwards because the carcinogenic diesel particulates are a long-duration pollutant that sticks to everything and CO2 is plant food.
 
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It takes 18-36 months to get through the engine certification process in the US, so even if they are trying to bring one of the new Euro6 engines over, it's going to be a while unless they started certification attempts at the same time here as they did there. If they didn't, it's going to take a while.
 
Spectre said:
It takes 18-36 months to get through the engine certification process in the US, so even if they are trying to bring one of the new Euro6 engines over, it's going to be a while unless they started certification attempts at the same time here as they did there. If they didn't, it's going to take a while.
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As far as I can see the US Passat supposed to be built in TN will get that engine.
 
Spectre said:
I've been mostly staying out of this because I don't have time to treat it properly but I can't let this go. Correction: They can't sell us the diesels because they don't meet our emissions standards. Diesel residue is carcinogenic, and many of the Euro so-called 'clean diesels' actually produce more (sometimes far more) than are allowed by US standards. They cannot pass US particulates standards even with their particulate traps installed. In Europe, 'clean diesel' (as best I can tell from reading) seems to mean that they produce less CO2 with particulate control as a secondary concern. Which, as a former Los Angeles ('the nation's smog lab') resident, I think is completely backwards because the carcinogenic diesel particulates are a long-duration pollutant that sticks to everything and CO2 is plant food.
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I would also use bio-diesel in it.
 
GRtak said:
I would also use bio-diesel in it.
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I looked into that when I had the Grand Wagoneer and wanted to convert. Called Washington and spoke to several people at the EPA.

The EPA does NOT care that you'd run it on WVO or biodiesel. You cannot convert a gasser that was not sold in the US with an EPA approved diesel variant to diesel. Period, full stop, it's illegal. Federal felony illegal.

Lovely, huh? Unintended consequences from stupid regulations again...
 
I was not talking about converting a "gasser" to a diesel, just the emissions. I want the twin turbo diesel Jag that Clarkson used in the episode they drove from France to Blackpool.
 
GRtak said:
I was not talking about converting a "gasser" to a diesel, just the emissions. I want the twin turbo diesel Jag that Clarkson used in the episode they drove from France to Blackpool.
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Jaguar says that engine won't pass US emissions and you can't legally convert one that's already here by importing and installing a diesel engine.

Also, that diesel is from a Peugeot, so you know that the engine will be upside down and on fire at the earliest possible opportunity. :p
 
Spectre said:
It takes 18-36 months to get through the engine certification process in the US, so even if they are trying to bring one of the new Euro6 engines over, it's going to be a while unless they started certification attempts at the same time here as they did there. If they didn't, it's going to take a while.
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Don't we get a diesel VW stateside? I remember seeing some ads where they had one vs a Prius.

What is funny is that with all of those standards work vehicles are exempt and are free to kill us and those are the ones that get driven around more.
 
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prizrak said:
Don't we get a diesel VW stateside? I remember seeing some ads where they had one vs a Prius.

What is funny is that with all of those standards work vehicles are exempt and are free to kill us and those are the ones that get driven around more.
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There are a few, I think I said earlier in the thread already that older ones are not legal in CA, I am not sure about newer ones.
 
prizrak said:
Don't we get a diesel VW stateside? I remember seeing some ads where they had one vs a Prius.

What is funny is that with all of those standards work vehicles are exempt and are free to kill us and those are the ones that get driven around more.
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We get those and diesel Mercedes - and until the new diesel BMWs joined them, that was it for a very long time. In fact, during (IIRC) 2008, there were no diesel cars being sold new in the US for a time because none of them met the then-new Bin5 emissions standards.
 
Spectre said:
We get those and diesel Mercedes - and until the new diesel BMWs joined them, that was it for a very long time. In fact, during (IIRC) 2008, there were no diesel cars being sold new in the US for a time because none of them met the then-new Bin5 emissions standards.
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Yeah I remember there being a huge gap for diesel cars here, just meant that situation changed now.
 
prizrak said:
Yeah I remember there being a huge gap for diesel cars here, just meant that situation changed now.
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Thing is, most of the Euro 'clean' diesels didn't pass emissions then, and many will not pass now.
 
Spectre said:
Thing is, most of the Euro 'clean' diesels didn't pass emissions then, and many will not pass now.
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Doesn't really matter if they do, don't think many people will buy them here. Not to mention that diesel is 20c more than 93 AKI here (read: East coast), which is a huge chunk of the market right there.
 
Just an aside but keeping with the diesel theme didn't Mythbusters use an old diesel Merc for something a few seasons back? I was really surprised as until then I wasn't aware anyone had ever sold diesel cars in the US.
 
GM even sold some diesels here. That is also the problem with there not being a big market for them now. The engine was a converted gasoline engine (Oldsmobile 403 block, very similar to the Olds 350, but with thicker casting for the cylinder bore), but it was bored and stroked like the 350 ci gas engine. Even with the thicker cylinder walls it couldn't hold the increased compression ratios. They had several areas of failure, most notable was the cylinder walls would crack and start to fail, often in a big oil slick.

Now those blocks are coveted by those in the know for the increase compression that you can use by converting it back to a gas engine and the cast steal crank. although, most still opt to build a SBC because it is cheaper.
 
MWF said:
Just an aside but keeping with the diesel theme didn't Mythbusters use an old diesel Merc for something a few seasons back? I was really surprised as until then I wasn't aware anyone had ever sold diesel cars in the US.
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MB had some diesels around here a LONG time ago, I still see some of them running but they usually look like they are going to fall apart. I seen a nice and clean 190D once though :)
 
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