Opel -- A neverending story?

argatoga said:
I've posted shots before, VW AG models that share the same platform look the same from the side profile.
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Yes I know about that, but there's much more to it than that. They tinker with the suspension, the front and rear fascias, throw in different engines combos, tweak the interiors, etc. It's certainly a much better way of badge engineering than what GM did before bankruptcy.
 
GM just glued another badge on exactly the same car and sold it in the same marketplace. VW builds a different car around the same platform. A Skoda and a Seat are two completely different animals. As for Opel I do not share MacGuffins gloom and love of sourceless Spiegel articles, I think their upshot with the new models have been tremendous. I see tonnes of the new Astra Wagon (because all we Swedes buy are wagons) and hardly a night goes by without an Opel commercial (with their big 5 for five years warranty). Pre-bankruptcy GM never ever advertised Opel during the 2000's, no wonder their market share dropped.

More advertisement (currently running a fixed interest rate of 1,95%), low carbon taxfree engines and good aftercare service (an area where VW and especially Seat are hopelessly last in rankings) will surely bring in lots of new customers. As for asia, GM has Buick for that. As in Opel sedans with a Buick badge glued on. Doesnt matter if the front has a lightning bolt or three shields, as long as they sell in separate marketplaces it's all good.
 
argatoga said:
I've posted shots before, VW AG models that share the same platform look the same from the side profile.
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What the bloody hell are you talking about.
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And
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To stay on topic, it's much better than this. If that isn't "looking the same", then I dunno what is.

EDIT: To be a bit of a nitpicker, the Fabia is using a slightly older platform that was used by the previous-gen Polo and Ibiza. That said, the current platform is a development of the one the Fabia uses, and not a completely new one.
 
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AiR said:
As for Opel I do not share MacGuffins gloom and love of sourceless Spiegel articles, I think their upshot with the new models have been tremendous. I see tonnes of the new Astra Wagon (because all we Swedes buy are wagons) and hardly a night goes by without an Opel commercial (with their big 5 for five years warranty). Pre-bankruptcy GM never ever advertised Opel during the 2000's, no wonder their market share dropped.
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Well, first of all: When the news leaked out to the biggest German car magazine and the most popular German news platform (which is SPIEGEL Online) and to nobody else, then it can be assumed, that this was a precisely leaked information, probably from someone inside of Opel.

Also the fact, that there was no strong denial but just a "it's only speculation" comment, supports the serious background of the information. If you ask me, that was leaked to set GM under pressure to either confirm or deny -- with all consequences.

And don't get this wrong but the Swedish market isn't exactly a decisive factor for the success of Opel :p I'm sure the brand is very popular there and I also said already, that the current models are good cars.

But what you cannot discuss away, is the fact, that Opel still makes losses and isn't expected to return to the profitable zone before next year. And it's obvious, that this slow recovery process isn't fast enough for the bosses in Detroit.

We now must see, how this thing progresses.
 
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Buick in the US is now essentially what Saturn was in the late 00's, a conduit of sorts for some Opel/Vauxhall products.

It'll be interesting to see what happens there...
 
FDaihatsu said:
What the bloody hell are you talking about.
EDIT: To be a bit of a nitpicker, the Fabia is using a slightly older platform that was used by the previous-gen Polo and Ibiza. That said, the current platform is a development of the one the Fabia uses, and not a completely new one.
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For those that are of the same platform they have the an identical side profile. Tweaking the rear side window doesn't make a different car.

To give an example of platform sharing done right here is an example (ironicly GM)

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^So... you are seriously convinced that those two cars actually look more different from each other than the Polo and Ibiza?

Maybe it's really a culural difference. To me those are 2 generic and rather similar looking 70s land yachts, whereas to you on the other hand all small European cars look the same.
 
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Opel Kadett/Vauxhall Chevette/Chevy Chevette/Holden Gemini.

All these were claimed by 1970s GM to be totally different cars on the same platform. The pictures do not cover blatant re-badging operations like the Opel-Isuzu, the Pontiac Acadian, the Pontiac T1000, the Isuzu Gemini and a dozen others who simply were a variant of one of the above with another grill slapped onto them.
 
H0nzik said:
^So... you are seriously convinced that those two cars actually look more different from each other than the Polo and Ibiza?

Maybe it's really a culural difference. To me those are 2 generic and rather similar looking 70s land yachts, whereas to you on the other hand all small European cars look the same.
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The two are more instantly recognizable as different by non car people.

Dr_Grip said:
All these were claimed by 1970s GM to be totally different cars on the same platform. The pictures do not cover blatant re-badging operations like the Opel-Isuzu, the Pontiac Acadian, the Pontiac T1000, the Isuzu Gemini and a dozen others who simply were a variant of one of the above with another grill slapped onto them.
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When did I say all GM cars that shared the platforms at the time were different looking?
 
argatoga said:
When did I say all GM cars that shared the platforms at the time were different looking?
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Never. Actually, i think the question weather GM, VW, Ford (of America), the light truck divisions of VW and Mercedes or Aston Martin are worse at badge engineering is pointless. It just was a nice reason to post some T-platform cars.
 
Here is another example of platform sharing done right then:

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MacGuffin said:
But what you cannot discuss away, is the fact, that Opel still makes losses and isn't expected to return to the profitable zone before next year. And it's obvious, that this slow recovery process isn't fast enough for the bosses in Detroit.
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Profitability within GM is something only GM itself knows, money can be siphoned away and added without anyone else knowing. Saab was officially profitable during one year of GM ownership. I take for granted that GM is doing the same marketing rejuvenation in all markets, it may be faster noticed here where the economy is on rails but unless something dramatic happens we should eventually see an upshot in other markets too.

We'll see what happens, if anything happens at all. What we know is that VW definately does not need another brand, and other manufacturers should have little difficulty making a case that VW gulping up another volume car maker would violate EU competition law.

H0nzik said:
Well, since we haven't got any non-car people on this forum, it is a rather difficult claim to prove or disprove.
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I thought it was the same car until I looked closely. Generic landbarges to me.
 
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H0nzik said:
Very well, what about this then?
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:nod: sharing done right. In this case, a design toolchain that unifies common elements and then offers enough variations to base a family yacht and a sportscar on the same basic design elements.
 
I agree that VW really doesn't need Opel/Vauxhall. What the latter needs is to be freed of its GM shackles and allowed to trade in all markets. I would guess it is more likely that a Chinese outfit would buy it for the market penetration and R&D expertise especially in light of the much improved quality of the cars Opel is now churning out.

Also it wouldn't do any harm to drop the Vauxhall name and rebadge as Opels here in the UK. While I know that the current Astra and Insignia are good cars, the latter being a pretty handsome beast to boot, I am sure I am not alone here in being completely unwilling simply because of the connotations of the badge.

Remember when Clarkson track tested the Lotus derived and built VX220? He summed it up at the end with two suit jackets, both Armani, but on one he had replaced the Armani badge with a much lower rent one. It is all about perception and for years Vauxhall's products were poor relations to their Ford and VW cousins, more like Peugeot with less cheese, garlic and surrendering.

I may not be a fan of the brand but it would be a shame to see them go to the wall, and no economy needs that kind of job losses right now, but from what I read in an article today about GM's new CEO* the best thing for Opel right now would be a new owner and a release from the GM dungeon.

*I'll find the URL and edit in later.
 
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MWF said:
I may not be a fan of the brand but it would be a shame to see them go to the wall, and no economy needs that kind of job losses right now, but from what I read in an article today about GM's new CEO* the best thing for Opel right now would be a new owner and a release from the GM dungeon.

*I'll find the URL and edit in later.
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The guys on the Autoblog podcast mentioned him and the somewhat new product planning director a few times. Lets just say they weren't terribly confident in the two's overall understanding of the car business....
 
If Opel would just build one specific Car, their problems will be solved!

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COME ON OPEL, YOU WON'T NEED NECESSARILY LOTUS ANYMORE, JUST DO IT! ;)
 
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