Time for the big one or: Quo Vadis, America?

narf said:
Look at it this way, you can confidently say "We're number one!" in this respect.
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Yes, but at what cost, all this shit?!

/knows you were kidding :p
 
https://pic.armedcats.net/j/jm/jmsprovan/2011/07/31/3250_0890_480.jpeg_1302388131.jpg
 
Both conservatives and progressives are pretty pissed off about the Obama-McConnell plan. Conservatives don't think it goes far enough and are terrified that the debt commission would raise taxes. Progressives think it's idiotic to pass this with no tax increases and then rely on the Republicans to deal when they've clearly shown they can't. So replacing the BBA with a debt commission will cost a lot of Republican votes. And not adding taxes on the rich upfront will keep a lot of Democrats from supporting it. I think this will be even harder for Boehner to pass than the initial bill. Nobody likes it.
 
GRtak said:
That is old information. The US Government admits to spending over $900 billion on the military now. How much of a difference that extra $200 billion and change makes doesn't matter, it is still fucking ridiculous.
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Why do I keep having to remind everyone that as a percentage of GDP military spending in not all that high. Even if you take into consideration that $900 billion figure it is only about 6.4% of GDP, not an outrageous number. As a superpower our military, and please remember this, is used for much more than defense. It allows us to exert strong influence on the world stage. From keeping potential disruptive countries from rising to guaranteeing the unimpeded flow of global trade. Compare it to the Pax Romana , a Pax Americana if you will. Not an era free of conflict but free of major conflict allowing global trade and prosperity to come into existence and be sustained. We pull back at all and we will all suffer.

A more multipolar world will not be a more peaceful world, if history has taught us anything it has taught us that. If anything I would raise the defense, cut anything else really.

One must also consider the millions of jobs related to the United States military.

I could go on and on.
 
Sorry for not reading through this whole thread, but could someone enlighten me how it became this problematic so fast? I know Bush didn't do too well, and the 2007 recession contributed, but what tipped it?

Another thing is that even though I personally lean towards the Democrats, but I've been noticing this Rep. Ron Paul, and he's said some of the most sensible things regarding this problem. I really give hats off to him for being the first to come out and go against the TSA as well.
 
jetsetter said:
Why do I keep having to remind everyone that as a percentage of GDP military spending in not all that high. Even if you take into consideration that $900 billion figure it is only about 6.4% of GDP, not an outrageous number.
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Only United Arab Emirates, Oman, Saudi Arabia, Eritrea, and North Korea spend more than 6.4% of their GDP.
 
zephyrus17 said:
Sorry for not reading through this whole thread, but could someone enlighten me how it became this problematic so fast? I know Bush didn't do too well, and the 2007 recession contributed, but what tipped it?
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The Tea party happened. Raising the debt ceiling is normal, it is supposed to be done. While mounting debt in recent years makes this one a more important decision, it is the Tea Party (which basically controls the GOP in the House) that says no to everything regarding tax increases outright, and demand a balanced budget amendment while reducing the debt. Unfortunately, they are bad at math, and can't realize the debt reductions they want are impossible to achieve without increasing taxes unless you plan on eliminating most of the US budget.
 
Well, yeah, I did eventually read through the whole thread and asked my girlfriend who studies finance, and increasing taxes is probably the best way out of this. And cut the military spending, for goodness sake. $900bn on just the military is just rediculous.
 
zephyrus17 said:
Well, yeah, I did eventually read through the whole thread and asked my girlfriend who studies finance, and increasing taxes is probably the best way out of this. And cut the military spending, for goodness sake. $900bn on just the military is just rediculous.
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Anyone who's serious about balancing the budget and paying off the nations debt is in favor of raising taxes on the rich. I was reading something last week claiming that if we reinstated the 1961 income tax brackets (20% bottom, 91% top) we'd have the national debt paid off in a decade. I don't know if that's true or not, but that would nearly triple the top rate. That's would be an insane amount of revenue.
 
jetsetter said:
Why do I keep having to remind everyone that as a percentage of GDP military spending in not all that high. Even if you take into consideration that $900 billion figure it is only about 6.4% of GDP, not an outrageous number. As a superpower our military, and please remember this, is used for much more than defense. It allows us to exert strong influence on the world stage. From keeping potential disruptive countries from rising to guaranteeing the unimpeded flow of global trade. Compare it to the Pax Romana , a Pax Americana if you will. Not an era free of conflict but free of major conflict allowing global trade and prosperity to come into existence and be sustained. We pull back at all and we will all suffer.

A more multipolar world will not be a more peaceful world, if history has taught us anything it has taught us that. If anything I would raise the defense, cut anything else really.

One must also consider the millions of jobs related to the United States military.

I could go on and on.
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People who hug their trees like to forget those sorts of things. If it wasn't for the DOD, the US economy would've been down the toilet ages ago. DOD budget also includes NASA's budget, people like to forget that as well.
 
But maybe the US military does not exists for the purpose of employing people. Besides those great young people should be home doing great things and not patrolling a desert.
 
narf said:
NASA's budget is what, $18bn? Barely a drop in the bucket that is the $900bn military budget. Two percent.
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Should I include research grants and funding for 100s of American Universities?

Launch Vehicle research and safety?

Aerospace R&D, Comp Sci projects, etc. etc.

Hell even the growth and birth of the internet can be attributed to DOD funding.

We wouldn't be where we are today if it wasn't for the ridiculously large DOD budget.
 
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GRtak said:
Military spending is way out of control. I heard somewhere the other day that the US spends more money on the military than the next 100 countries combined. Did not remember the sourve to check it out, but I know that we spend more than the rest of NATO combined and that alone is disgusting. The US needs to close all of it's bases outside of the US and cut the budget drasticly.


No, the world is not safer, how can it be? Read my signature to understand why.
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That would be fine and dandy if the world didn't keep asking us for Military help all the time...
 
Cellos88GT said:
According to this:

http://comptroller.defense.gov/defbudget/fy2012/fy2012_r1.pdf

R&D amounts to $81 bn.

btw I don't know where you are getting this $900bn figure when last year's budget was $691bn....

http://comptroller.defense.gov/defbudget/fy2012/FY2012_Budget_Request_Overview_Book.pdf
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From here:

GRtak said:
That is old information. The US Government admits to spending over $900 billion on the military now. How much of a difference that extra $200 billion and change makes doesn't matter, it is still fucking ridiculous.
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After skimming through those hundreds of pages you posted I'd say most of the R&D budged ends up in missile defence, the JSF and FCS programs, and upgrades for the existing squadrons/fleets such as the F22.
 
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