Random Thoughts (Political Edition)

There is nothing do indicate the death penalty has any deterrant value what-so-ever

The reason you spend so many years on appeals is to ensure you don't kill innocent people.

And you still kill innocent people.

It's a stupid, pointless and dangerous system that kills innocent people. It's like communism. No, it's not. But I'm tired of getting "that's communism" thrown in my face when I debate anything.

/rant
 
That said, given that the death penalty is given in only the most heinous crimes, are we robbing the living victims of their rights of closure? Sure, spending 23 hours in a cell with just books and whatnot sucks, but on the other hand, it's a quantum step better than being dead.

Timothy McVeigh wanted to die instead of spending the rest of his life in jail.
 
I have been reading The Enigma of Japanese Power by journalist Karel van Wolferen. It was written in the late 1980s when the Nikkei hit its height and it appeared that Japan was taking over the world. So far there have some very interesting passages such as the following:

The Japanese prime minister is not expected to show much leadership; labour unions organize strikes to be held during lunch breaks; the legislature does not in fact legislate; stockholders never demand dividends; consumer interest groups advocate protectionism; laws are enforced only if they don't conflict too much with the interests of the powerful; and the ruling Liberal Democratic Party is, if anything, conservative and authoritarian, is not really a party and does not in fact rule.

Chapter Two - The Elusive State

I will post additional interesting passages as I come across them.
 
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The Ukanian version

"The Ukanian prime minister is not expected to show much leadership; labour unions hardly ever organise strikes and they are almost never effective; the legislature does not in fact legislate; stockholders always demand dividends; consumer interest groups advocate going green (What ever that means); laws are enforced only if they don't conflict too much with the interests of the powerful (See phone hacking); and ANY ruling Party is, if anything, conservative and authoritarian, is not really a party and does not in fact rule."

There you go - different but the same :lol:
 
It's an anti-muslim propaganda piece by a british red top. The only thing worth discussing is how much of the article is made up.
 
Not sure about that, we have a similar converted idiot in Germany, Pierre Vogel........
 
It's an anti-muslim propaganda piece by a british red top. The only thing worth discussing is how much of the article is made up.

On this case it isn't made up, the guy in the picture is part of a ultra-islamist movement and they really are seriously mental. Even quite hard line Muslims in the UK have denounced his group for being too extreme.
 
How does this work with normal governmental law enforcement? In Israel where there are both Sharia and Halakhic areas the enforcement is only within legal limits, with zero tolerance for any corporal punishment. Same for the religious parts of Brooklyn.
 
Not sure about that, we have a similar converted idiot in Germany, Pierre Vogel........
there is no such thing as religious law enforcement in the UK.
That's the point. It's a few loonies handing out flyers and putting up stickers, not "Sharia law hitting the UK". It is blown out of proportion on a scale that touches if not equals making it up.

EDIT: As a backdrop to the article, here's a piece from the (admittedly left-leaning) Guardian about the Daily Star's open support for the far-right, islamophobe English Defense League (think Pro Deutschland or the Dutch PVV): http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/greenslade/2011/feb/10/dailystar-english-defence-league
 
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That's the point. It's a few loonies handing out flyers and putting up stickers, not "Sharia law hitting the UK". It is blown out of proportion on a scale that touches if not equals making it up.

they are RL trolls, they know exactly which buttons to push to get all the publicity they could ever want from our alarmist media. Here is Charlie Brooker talking about how the group works:


Their only aim is to stoke up hatred between Muslim and non Muslim communities and our press falls for it every time.
 
there is no such thing as religious law enforcement in the UK.

And despite having no legally defined seperation of "church and state", the UK is a secular state. So, there is no religous argument on abortions etc.

There is only one exception I can think of and that is male Sikhs, who generally wear turbans, are legally exempted from wearing a crash helmet, whilst riding a motorcycle.

The history is that they wore turbans and not tin hats during two world wars and many other conflict fighting in the British Army, so good luck to them.
 
It's some chaps putting up stickers. If they try to enforce their Sharia law, for instance by assaulting someone, they will get arrested for assault.

Next.
 
the death penalty is given in only the most heinous crimes
As far as I know, it isn't. Typically, the death penalty is reserved for murderers while rape or even child molesting, crimes which produce highly traumatized living victims, are treated as less severe.
 
It sounds cruel, but I can't agree with that. In my mind it's like saying rape victims are better off dead. Don't take this the wrong way, of course rape is a terrible thing.
 
yeah the death penalty for Rape would just encourage more rapists to kill their victims afterward.
 
No..

It wouldn't. It wouldn't make the slightest difference either way.
 
Death of Homeless Man After Beating by Police Stirs Outrage

LOS ANGELES ? In one video, the sound of a Taser going off is followed by a man screaming in pain. In another, footage from a security camera on a public bus, riders describe police officers beating a man to death in graphic terms. ?They beat him up, and then all the cops came and they hogtied him, and he was like, ?Please God, please Dad!,? ? one said.

The death of Kelly Thomas, a homeless man with mental illness, after an encounter with members of the Fullerton Police Department in California has set off a furor in this Orange County community, amid allegations that six police officers used excessive force to try to quiet Mr. Thomas.

At a City Council meeting this week, hundreds of angry residents assailed their elected officials, calling the Police Department corrupt, demanding the resignation of the police chief and promising to recall several council members.

?There was a lot of fear and anger and shock,? said Bruce Whitaker, a Fullerton council member. ?Homeless individuals are concerned for their own safety, and they have nowhere else to go.?

Still, what exactly happened on the night of July 5 remains the subject of multiple investigations, and to date the police have not offered a clear report of what occurred, with the Orange County district attorney?s investigation continuing.

It began when the Fullerton police responded to reports of a man trying to break into cars, and soon they made contact with Mr. Thomas, according to Sgt. Andrew Goodrich, a police spokesman. At the end of the altercation, Mr. Thomas, 37, lay unconscious and severely beaten, and he was taken to a hospital. Pictures of him at the hospital show his face swollen, bruised and bloody. He was taken off life support and died five days later.

Initially, the episode attracted little public attention. But as the photographs of Mr. Thomas and videos of the beating and its aftermath began to surface on the Internet, public outrage grew.

Mr. Thomas?s father, Ron Thomas, said he circulated the videos and photographs because he worried that nothing would be done to bring his son?s assailants to justice.

?Nobody else cared,? he said. ?My son was brutally beaten to death by six cops. It needed to get attention.?

Since the most recent video ? the bus surveillance tape, which the blog Friends for Fullerton?s Future obtained through a public records request, was released at the start of this week ? five police officers involved in the episode have been placed on paid administrative leave (another was already on administrative leave). The F.B.I. has also opened its own investigation into whether Mr. Thomas?s civil rights were violated.

Still, this move may not placate Fullerton residents, some of whom claim that the episode is endemic to the city?s Police Department, which is protected by several City Council members who used to serve on the force. One council member, Sharon Quirk-Silva, has called for the police chief to resign.

Link to a blog that broke the story and has info on some of the continuing problems of this police department: http://www.fullertonsfuture.org/


Story on CNN: http://www.cnn.com/video/?/video/bestoftv/2011/08/03/exp.nr.ca.kelly.thomas.beating.cnn



I find this absolutely disgusting, to say the least. The cops involved are monsters that deserve to spend the rest of their lives in jail. The people that witnessed this and did nothing to persuade the cops to stop are nearly as bad. They could of at least called 911 to report the excessive force, instead they joke "YOUTUBE".
 
What can you do, though? Calling 911 might just land you with a charge of hoax calling, interferring will get you arrested for disorderly conduct/resisting arrest/interferring in police business/cattle rustling/whatever they can find.

At least now, there's a video record of what happened, and it might have some concequences for the officers. It also exemplifies why targeting photographers or videographers in public is always a bad idea.
 
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