Time for the big one or: Quo Vadis, America?

MacGuffin said:
Yes, Obama makes a surprisingly weak impression as a leader. He probably looks towards his re-election at the moment and plays for time. Maybe in his mind he thinks he can set everything straight in his second term of office.
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MacGuffin said:
The key problem are the hardliners (a.k.a. Tea Party) within the Republican party. Basically they have taken their party hostage (and the whole country with it) to push their demands through.

They want it their way and no compromises. Do what they say or they will kill the hostages and they do not care, if they are killed in the process, too, because they believe they fight for a higher goal.

Wait a minute... isn't that how terrorists act and thnk...?
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You addressed the issue you brought up in your following post. How is Obama supposed to play chicken with a group who is willing to kill itself and the country? It has nothing to do with Obama's so-called leadership issues.

And frankly, calling anybody weak because they are willing to compromise, even in the face of steadfast extremists, is completely unfair.
 
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SpitfireMK461 said:
You addressed the issue you brought up in your following post. How is Obama supposed to play chicken with a group who is willing to kill itself and the country? It has nothing to do with Obama's so-called leadership issues.
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This. The entire conservative platform for the past year has been to make absolute and uncompromising demands, and then make the claim that if everyone just did like they said, we wouldn't have any of the problems we do now.

Not only that, but then when things are enacted like conservatives want and they don't end up working out as they promised, somehow Obama and/or the Democrats then take the blame.
 
jetsetter said:
[video=youtube;661pi6K-8WQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=661pi6K-8WQ[/video]
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NO we need the money makers, just get them to pay their fair share.

jmsprovan said:
its to do with the imagery of the Boston Tea party where the Americans stuck it to the British, except now its sticking it to the US federal government.
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Er no they did not actually. They were Tea smugglers who following the british revocation of the tea tax were left with tons of overpriced tea they could not shift - so they dumped the legally landed, tax free tea into the harbour, dressed as Native Americans so they could deflect the legality of their actions.

There are lots of lies told about history, ours as well as others. The French think that they invented democracy following the revolution. ? for instance.
 
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Cobol74 said:
NO we need the money makers, just get them to pay their fair share.
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He uses Exxon as an example, yet Exxon (the US' most profitable corporation) pays no federal taxes at all because the tax code is so holey and useless.
 
SpitfireMK461 said:
You addressed the issue you brought up in your following post. How is Obama supposed to play chicken with a group who is willing to kill itself and the country? It has nothing to do with Obama's so-called leadership issues.

And frankly, calling anybody weak because they are willing to compromise, even in the face of steadfast extremists, is completely unfair.
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I didn't call him weak. I said he gives a weak impression. I too consider him a victim of the circumstances.
 
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Well then your to kind, because he is weak.


argatoga said:
Ending the occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan would help too.
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Tremendously! And while we are at it, let the Drug War get axed too. The DEA is just trying to be the new CIA with offices all over the world.


jetsetter said:
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FTFY


I am not all against the rich. There are some quite good rich people that do great things around the world. But most are hoarders and could give away 90% of their acquired wealth and still live well above their needs.
 
That is why I never liked the Dead Kennedys, you can't understand a damn thing they say. Must be the opposite of Ozzy, although, I don't like him much either.
 
jmsprovan said:
He uses Exxon as an example, yet Exxon (the US' most profitable corporation) pays no federal taxes at all because the tax code is so holey and useless.
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An oft-repeated but incorrect allegation. Kenneth Cohen of Exxon Mobil refuted, saying:

Over the past five years (2006-2010), Exxon Mobil's total U.S. tax expense was almost $59 billion, which is $18 billion more than the company's operating earnings in the U.S. during the same period. In 2010 we paid $1.3 billion in federal income taxes.
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Steve
 
Steve Levin said:
An oft-repeated but incorrect allegation. Kenneth Cohen of Exxon Mobil refuted, saying:
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Mmm, do we have anything to back the 2006-2010 figure up? I'm not saying you're wrong, I just don't trust oil company executives.

Also, even if he's right about the latter part, that means they paid $1.3 billion in income taxes... on almost $53 billion in earnings (2010 Form 10-K/A). That's a tax rate of 2.45%. If I were him, in this debate, I wouldn't go around bragging about that.
 
Looking at the 10K report you've posted, Exxon paid USD 1.224 bil of federal taxes in 2010. Furthermore, USD 340 mil of US state taxes were paid, but even this combined USD 1.659 bil of total US income taxes is dwarfed by the USD 19.9 bill of non-US income taxes.

https://pic.armedcats.net/p/pe/pepitko/2011/08/08/Screen_Shot_2011-08-08_at_15.03.51.png

It seems that this is because Exxon makes most of its money abroad (at least in their accounting). In 2010, the income before tax from US operations was USD 7.7 bil and from non-US operations USD 45.2 bil. So their effective tax rate in the US is actually 21.5% and tax rate from abroad is 44%.

Obviously it's hard to determine, whether they are using loopholes to tax profits outside of the US, but actually I doubt that is the case since the effective tax rate abroad is so much higher. Also I would guess that most of drilling and selling of oil happens outside of the US, so indeed they do most of the business outside of US.

https://pic.armedcats.net/p/pe/pepitko/2011/08/08/Screen_Shot_2011-08-08_at_15.01.23.png
 
MacGuffin said:
There is hardly a country in the world, that isn't struggling with its social/welfare system and how to finance it. Frankly I don't know much about the issues of the U.S. system but from what I gathered, it cannot actually be that overblown. Otherwise there wouldn't be so much poverty there. I suspect structural problems and cost-effectiveness are the main issues. And it seems to be heavily underfunded for what it is supposed to do. Am I right?

Maybe somebody can explain those issues, so it becomes more transparent for us foreigners.

I don't wanna suggest that our system is better but even though there are some cracks under pressure, it's still holding together fairly well. Mainly because our society is more based on a, well... shall we say "mandatory solidarity" with the needily. A working social system is expensive, very expensive to be honest. But in my eyes it is also the business card of a modern, civilized country. You cannot simply leave everything to voluntariness and compassion to help people in need.
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It's an issue that many countries have but it simply comes down to abuse of the system e.g. letting illegal immigrants (the ones that don't file taxes and/or work) use welfare benefits. In Los Angeles county alone, it is projected that $600mil will be spent on welfare for illegal immigrants, where does this leave the people that need it who have been paying into the system for years?
 
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Cellos88GT said:
It's an issue that many countries have but it simply comes down to abuse of the system e.g. letting illegal immigrants (the ones that don't file taxes and/or work) use welfare benefits. In Los Angeles county alone, it is projected that $600mil will be spent on welfare for illegal immigrants, where does this leave the people that need it who have been paying into the system for years?
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That seems to be more like a matter of how you organize it.
 
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Cellos88GT said:
It's an issue that many countries have but it simply comes down to abuse of the system e.g. letting illegal immigrants (the ones that don't file taxes and/or work) use welfare benefits. In Los Angeles county alone, it is projected that $600mil will be spent on welfare for illegal immigrants, where does this leave the people that need it who have been paying into the system for years?
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Sounds to me like you need a proper ID system, controlled by a strong federal government.
 
narf said:
Sounds to me like you need a proper ID system, controlled by a strong federal government.
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You know, I was about to suggest the same thing (together with residence registration maybe) but then I realized, that even though I come from one oft he most liberal and free countries in the world, I would be called a communist for that by somebody.

Maybe I worry too much.

Oh, wait... damn...

:mrgreen:
 
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MacGuffin said:
You know, I was about to suggest the same thing (together with residence registration maybe)
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Residence registration is part of the proper ID deal. Can be paid for with the money saved from not giving welfare to illegals.
 
narf said:
:dunno: just offering a proven solution to the problem he states. They fail to properly identify people, hence they need proper identification systems. Quite obvious, really.
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I know that it would be the best solution but it just does not fit the mindset of the US. Even in the UK they fought ID cards and Cameron scrapped them. While the concept is fine with me, I really hate that I have to carry an ID with in Holland all the time, so I kind of understand the US and UK.
 
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