London Burning

So why the riots? Is it because of the "austerity measures?"

Does anything reveal that this may be far more organized and planned than thought initially? In other words, these "masked youths" may be part of some extreme political group?

And as far the death penalty...that is nutty. Property is being burned, stores looted, not mass murder.

The masked 'youths' are due to the extensive police surveillance system in London, which has in excess of one camera for every eight residents. They're supposed to deter and help solve crime, but apparently nobody ever seems to have thought that someone might cover their face so the cameras wouldn't be able to identify them. It's an 'unexpected' turn of events for the Metropolitan Police, who were so proud of their cameras. Strangely, pretty much everyone else seems to have figured this out years ago...

I don't think that the rioters are particularly well organized or orchestrated (considering the in-fighting that seems to be going on) - or at least reports and videos don't seem to indicate so.
 
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So why the riots? Is it because of the "austerity measures?"

Does anything reveal that this may be far more organized and planned than thought initially? In other words, these "masked youths" may be part of some extreme political group?

And as far the death penalty...that is nutty. Property is being burned, stores looted, not mass murder.

its bored youths with twitter who want free stuff and like burning police cars, not really a political group.
 
Whatta bunch of assholes. Some citizens in the UK are probably treated like third world castoffs, but they say nothing and do nothing, though they have every legitimate reason to protest, albiet without violence.

These rioters are probably middle class brats who will skate through life with soft hands and even softer brains.
 
its bored youths with twitter who want free stuff and like burning police cars, not really a political group.

And, apparently, Blackberry Messenger: How Blackberry Messenger has been used to plan two nights of looting:

uring the Arab revolutions earlier this year, attention focused on Facebook and Twitter, but for the looters and rioters of Tottenham, Enfield and Brixton, the communications tool of choice has apparently been BlackBerry Messenger (BBM). It appears to have acted as their private, encrypted social network over the past two nights? violence.

RIM?s BlackBerry smartphones are very popular among inner city youths on both sides of the Atlantic. The devices themselves are typically cheaper than Android models and the iPhone, particularly on pay-as-you-go packages. But it is software that central to BlackBerrys? success in this market.

BBM is an instant messaging application, allowing users to communicate in a similar way to text messaging, but effectively for free, as traffic is exchanged via the internet. According to analysts it is replacing text messaging among young people.

?We?ve seen SMS usage fall among young people and the main driver is BlackBerry,? said Graham Brown of Mobile Youth, in April.

Each user has a unique PIN that allows other BBM users to contact them. BBM PINs are typically shared more readily than phone numbers, which means news can spread through the network more quickly than via text messages.

For authorities aiming to track disturbances via this technology, it presents particular problems compared to public social networks like Facebook and Twitter. While chatter in public can be monitored in real time using fairly simple software ? and the Met has such capabilities ? BBM conversations are more secure.

Messages are strongly encrypted using an algorithm called Triple-DES, which makes them unintelligible to observers. BBM can be intercepted and deciphered more easily than say, BlackBerry email, however, because all devices share the same cryptographic key.

I am unsure of the veracity of the article as it claims that Blackberries are popular among inner-city youth in the US and they just aren't. Over here, they all want iPhones. Crackberries are for corporate users.

Another item from the Telegraph link in the original post:
Sources on the ground say the Blackberry Message circulated last night, urging youths to attack shops at Oxford Circus, is still circulating and youths are now gathering there.


These rioters are probably middle class brats who will skate through life with soft hands and even softer brains.

I commend the Oingo Boingo songs "Capitalism" and "Grey Matter" to your attention.
 
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I saw on BBC News that Blackberry has said they will be working with the UK police. found a report on it from the Guardian.
 
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I can't speak as an authority, but as GRtalk suggested could this be a result in part to the tension built up by the encroaching government? For those of you living there have you felt any tension regarding the government?
 
I can't speak as an authority, but as GRtalk suggested could this be a result in part to the tension built up by the encroaching government? For those of you living there have you felt any tension regarding the government?

i'd say that its mostly a mixture of things but the government certainly aren't innocent in all this. It all kicked off in Tottenham which is one of the poorest areas in London. Very possibly in all of the UK. So you've got those who are struggling to find work in a uncertain market. those who are in the meantime stuck on welfare, those who just simply don't want to work. on top of that you've also got strained relations with the police which was the trigger for the whole thing after Thursdays incident (i don't know all the facts so i won't comment). You've got a immensely un-popular government also making heavy cuts. On top of that you've also got the vast majority of british government all off on their holidays as well. its a powder keg and as MWF stated in a earlier post and also as Spectre has pointed out. it was only a matter of time until all those things converge and it exploded.

Since then its all been taken over by the ones who just want to burn and set fire to things. The ones who just don't care. Who want a free tv or some free clothes. The Police were slow to act and others have seen it and thought "why not us" which is probably why you've got it spreading. The ones rioting now aren't the ones who were in the protest only a few days ago. its filled with people who just want to destroy, vent their anger and be a bunch of mindless thugs.
As i've said before, Stealing a tv, burning someones property or putting lives at risk isn't protest. its just outright foolish, stupid, idiotic and people who need to be locked up. The police are in a very precarious position because they can't come down too heavy handed but they also can't let it spread further so decisive action needs to be taken. Cameron deciding to come back from his holiday won't help matters either. The situation is already fucked up and that etonian twat won't do a thing.
As Spectre said, they'll talk about it but do nothing about it and then act all suprised when it happens again.
 
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From the sound of it, this looks larger and angrier than the student riots from last year. From Tottenham to Notting Hill, yikes...hope you guys are staying safe out there.
 
There is always an underlaying issue, thanks for pointing them out. It looks like there need to be some significant reforms, hopefully they will be better than beefing up the military and police.
 
Well isn't this wonderful. Horrific to see that people in Birmingham think that its a good idea to go out on the streets as well, but lets hope that is merely a blip in these nasty riots.

BBC News (the feed I've been listening to for the past hour or so) just had a phone interview with the owner of the furniture store that burned in Croydon; he was clearly broken down which yet again brings up the question of why. It does seem to be getting worse and worse as the night goes on, however as I write this the news/a journalist has been saying that observations of yesterday's rioting in places such as Enfield were less violent than the original riots in Tottenham, but what is going on now is much more violent. Lets hope they disperse and don't return tomorrow.

If people wanted to put text into words; here is a map of the known/reported areas where riots are/have been.

The news was saying how while the situation may be similar to riots in the 80s (financial crisis etc), the way it is unfolding isn't, as instead of massive outbreaks there are small organised hotspots popping up and dying down once the police arrive. The reports of once one area was calmed down the groups simply walked through a foot tunnel under the river and began elsewhere, where the police weren't in large numbers.

The reports of violence in Bromley kind of shows quite well how widespread the riots have become now; it would take me just 30 minutes to drive to Bromley, and I have friends living in that area.

New locations are appearing by the minute.
 
So what incited all this rioting, I didn't catch that in the article (though in my defense I really skimmed it)?

Edit: You guys answered that, it's just a bunch of douchebags. Wow I can't believe it... I just... there's gotta be some motive or something, I just don't think people would up and start rioting for no reason. At least I thought.

Hope everyone living in the area on FG are safe, hope your families are safe as well.
 
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So what incited all this rioting, I didn't catch that in the article (though in my defense I really skimmed it)?

Edit: You guys answered that, it's just a bunch of douchebags. Wow I can't believe it... I just... there's gotta be some motive or something, I just don't think people would up and start rioting for no reason. At least I thought.

Hope everyone living in the area on FG are safe, hope your families are safe as well.

A police arrest operation went badly wrong, and they ended up shooting the target dead, a cop who took a police bullet was saved by his radio. Family of alleged gangster went to local police station to ask questions about the shooting, they didn't get answers they wanted, police have not handled situation as best they could. Crowd outside people station set two cops cars on fire, and then what was peaceful protest, kicked off into a riot, fuelled by people from outside the area arriving to take part in the mayhem.

For the three days, reported to be gangs of mainly black youths run riot for a couple hours in random areas, orgainised on social media, cops arrived after the damage is done and they it kicks off somewhere else.

Saw a comment earlier on twitter saying something, the people of Eygpt rioted for their basic freedoms, the youth of London are rioting for HD ready plasma tv, smartphones and flash trainers.

shop_1967322b.jpg


riot mapped
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...xton-Hackney-Lewisham-and-Greater-London.html

woman jumps from burning building
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-st...-jumps-from-burning-building-115875-23330390/


a-woman-jumps-from-burning-building-in-surrey-street-london-pic-wenn-109218867.jpg
 
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I can't speak as an authority, but as GRtalk suggested could this be a result in part to the tension built up by the encroaching government? For those of you living there have you felt any tension regarding the government?

No, not at all.

It is more like jmsprovan said here:

its bored youths with twitter who want free stuff and like burning police cars, not really a political group.

Throwing rocks and stuff at the Police, setting fires and causing small scale disorder, gives the local patrol Police a problem.

They have to back off, re-plan, do a health and safety check (no really, they do), then call in reserves from elsewhere, get into protective clothing ("Riot Gear") and only then deploy.

This all takes time, during this time the "little scamps" to go and smash into the nearest PC or phone or Sports shoes stores and nick lots of stuff.

They then, as a bonus, torch said stores both to remove forensics and CCTV store video, plus just for the fun of it.

The Home Secretary and the Prime Minister have had to cut their holiday short, Boris is still holding out on the beach somewhere. :lol:

Having upset the politicians like this, I suspect a policy of "more robust" Policing will be adopted in the near future.

:rolleyes:

EDIT: The BBC have just said that Boris is also coming back from his holiday. Hmmm, must be bad, then.

Also, that Ealing in west London, a very affluent area near me, has had some restaurants and shops smashed up. Ealing is where I shop and hang out on weekends.
 
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There are always douchebags robbing in mobs, but there tends to be a general air of provoked outrage for these things.

The Rodney King riots were sparked by perceived racism by the police. Yes plenty of assholes robbed, but they legitimized it to themselves as justified.
 
The Rodney King riots were sparked by perceived racism by the police. Yes plenty of assholes robbed, but they legitimized it to themselves as justified.

I have to disagree with you on that. Most of the looters interviewed during and after the 92 LA Riots were 1) not of the aggrieved ethnicity, 2) didn't really care about why and 3) were just in it to steal 'free' stuff. The ones I observed didn't seem to be interested in redressing their grievances, just making off with anything that wasn't nailed down. And some things that were.

Now, the people committing arson, assault, murder, rape and such were often a different story.
 
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@LP The original rioting began after a peaceful protest following the shooting by Police of a man in the Tottenham area on Thursday. Essentially Police pulled over a taxi-cab in a planned operation, 2 shots were fired by the police and one by an illegal non-police firearm. The man, who was the passenger in the taxi was hit and killed by a police bullet. The police intended to arrest him, not the driver, and it was he who had the illegal firearm. Link to BBC report.


Some interesting Before and After photos of a couple of locations.
 
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A couple of weeks ago, something happened here in Norway. The sympathy we recieved from our friends in the UK isn't forgotten. Especially not now. I'm filled with sadness for you, this is just horrible.
 
It is amazing how such events can happen in a modern world. While it seems weird for me to say this I would say that mass murder by a mad man can happen as some individuals may feel so, but mass riot by mad men should not happen in these times.

And oh joy a Police station is on fire in Birmingham.
 
I have absolutely no words for what is happening in England at the moment. None whatsoever.

My sympathies to all those affected, and most importantly: stay safe! I know it's in vain, but still I hope this will end before somebody is murdered by these rioters.
 
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