US of A Presidential Elections 2012

Well if we are going to blame past presidents the economy was pretty bad when George Washington was in office too.

Let?s face some facts Obama ran for president during a bad economy and made all those people believe that he could fix it. Fact while folks were losing jobs him and the rest of Democrats were hard at work on their pet peeve Health Care. Meanwhile the economy has gotten worse and worse and the unemployment rate is 2 points lower than when he started. 10trillion dollars spent on his not so shovel ready projects (by his own words). He took on the job knowing there was a bad economy and has failed.
First and foremost, the economy was pretty good as FDR led you to win a war with Germany and some other nations, combination of Keynes and war won it and really made the US economy work. And that was following an economic disaster that were, perhaps, even greater than the current and recent.

EVERY presidential candidate during a recession will say to some extent, that they will fix the economy. They will even say they can stop abortion, or heavily hint at it, as most republicans have done for a decade or two.

Onto health care. Before you elected him and before he started his attempt at health care reform, you had the BLOODY MOST expensive health care in the known universe. Heck, you spent more per capita on health, the whole nation taken into account, than us. Norway. With UNIVERSAL health care. And NO real difference in quality, at least aside obvious differences between a big and small health care market.

Fixing that isn't a pet peave, it's crucial, it was bloody important. Sadly there were a lot of very thick people in congress who thought tort reform would make much difference. That is a pet peave to the other side. And it might do something, but it won't be enough, it won't make great changes to the system itself, and that's what's really broken.

Still annoys me they just couldn't get a public option. Would have made health care cheaper fast as fuck. And made private health care just a little more expensive.

And I realize why Obama has failed, I remember that when Bush got elected in 2000, he didn't say "I'll fix the economy". So he can't be blamed for running it to the ground, can he? Come to think of it. There was a deficit during Clinton's first four years. Perhaps it had been wiser to just let another republican take back the white house, and change course?

Wait..

And I hope you realize how much of a burden our current health system is on the economy.
Indeed it is. HCR will make an impact for sure, but what, I don't think anyone really know. Not really.
 
 
Yes, that is how I imagine a stereotypical Republican governor: No idea of what's going on in the world but well-versed in the bible and trusting in God.

Actually he sounds a lot like a 13th century village minister: Everything's starting to make sense, once you assume it's the will of God.
 
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Well the good news in all this is I consider myself a Republican but I do tend to lean towards the center just like most folks in my state do. Now as a Republican I also consider myself as having a pretty good view of the world. How so? Well lets I lived 5 year in what was West Germany in Stuttgart for 2 years and Fulda for 3. Ah Fulda spending hours and days out on the fence the tore a country in two. I also had the privilege of working in Moss Norway for 6 months. On that note Germany and Norway is like night and day. I also used the German health care system while I was there as my first born came into being in Fulda and we took him to see a German Doctor on our own dime. So nomix and MacGuffin I will tell you that enjoyed both nations and respected how you folks decided to have you respective countries run. That being said this is the United States of America and not a country in Europe.
So let?s discuss Health Care shall we? At one time I thought that a socialist health care program would be a good thing. But after talking to folks that are actually under the socialist health care programs throughout the world I had a change of heart. Did you know the vast majority of Americans are against the (We?ll know what?s in it when it passes) Health Care program? As a matter of fact a recent Rasmussen Poll on 22 August 2011 55% in favor of repeal and 38% against it. You can get that data at http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/health_care_law. If our current Health Care is so awful why are people so against it? Perhaps we just have to look North to see how a Government Run Health Care plan is a failure. With thousand of our friends in Canada coming to the US for their Health Care needs. Ah the horror stories people have told including my friend Chris who grew up in Canada.
As for FDR a very liberal president who helped to divide Europe after WWII along with Churchill and Stalin. His ?The New Deal? was a total failure yet you are correct in saying that the war did pull the US out of the depression. Can a President fix the economy, no he can?t only the economy can fix the economy but government can hinder that with artificial stimulus programs. The only thing the government can do is make an environment to spur on the economy is to give things like tax breaks and such. That is why currently liberal states are closing factories left and right as companies move to states that know how to bring industries in and it is not by government regulations and taxes.
So basically I don?t really care what folks in Norway or Germany think of my president or my country. It still must be a good country to move to since so many Europeans give up their socialized Health Care and immigrate here. The last people that should be telling a nation how it should be run is Germany. The way the Germans treat their Turkish immigrates is something out of our past with the Irish and Chinese immigrants in the 1800s. A country where one of my friends was refused entry into a club because he was black! ?You two can enter but not him?.
So I have an idea! Why don?t the Germans and Vikings from Norway fix their own country problems (if your government lets you) and let the US worry about the US.
 
Paint it as a socialist program, and tell people that's like China, it'll make it unpopular in the US. It isn't that I wish to force it onto you, it's just that I don't understand why you can't have a government health care system when you have a government army. Heck, you've got a government health care system as well. Medicare and medicaid. And if you look at the user data, I seem to remember that british_rover brought up some very interesting numbers on medicare users visa-vi users of private insurance. What emerged was that users of medicare were considerably less dissatisfied with their health care than those using private insurance companies. I've got a mate who just won't eat at the local Thai resturant because it's "just noodles and cat meat". Which he believes because he's never eaten there, to tell the truth, it's bleeding good. It's one of the best local places for food, to be honest.

I'd rather look at the facts than the rethoric. You had - and will still have, for some time, a system where people were impossible to get insured. Pre-existing condition? Tough luck. So you're insured, and get sick? We'll cover it. But we'll make sure we can't refuse coverage, though. If we find the slightest anomoly in your details, in some states even stuff you didn't know about yourself, you won't get covered. It's a system that's basicly broken, corrupt and beuraucratic to the extreme.

There's talk of beuraucracy in socialized medicine. Which isn't all that suprising, seeing that it's quite common in government systems. But let's just simplify it a little bit.

You get sick, what do you have to do? Private provider, get on the phone, get coverage, get treated. Socialized? Go to the hospital, see the doctor. Will either system be infallible? Of course not. No system is, and in the end, you'll get failures and wrongs in both systems. But at least we've dropped the bit about filling out forms before being treated. There's some filling out forms afterwards (for transport allovances and the likes), but that's about it. And I know the system well. I've got a father who've had cancer, serious heart decise twice, diabetes, a couple of very bad traumas plus other smaller stuff. Plus a mother with something like five back operations, two leg operations and a number of other problems. A grandmother with the usual problems of grandmothers, I've been to the ER twice in one year with good friends (and never been disappointed). In the end, it's a question of practicality.

We spend less money on health care than you. We live longer, and we cover everyone. You spend more, live shorter lives and cover fewer.

I am not saying HCR as it was passed is the final sollution. It's a bit underwhelming to be honest. You should have just added a public option. That would make your health care less expensive, as a nation, you'd spend less on a whole. So yes, I believe it to be a good idea. But it didn't happen, and that's a shame.

Do I care that polls show it unpopular? Not really. You can't govern a nation by polls, it leads to endless flipflopping, with either a dull compromise or a stupid status quo.

As for your last point, how dare you? This is an international forum where many things are debated. Among those are politics. As long as someone from Norway or Germany can fomulate a decent sentence in the language of Shakespear, and keeps a decent tone and show proper behavior, it should really not matter where he or she originates from or resides. That's irrelevant. If you don't want to debate health care or the President of your nation with a Norwegian chap, you should either find another forum or put me on ignore. That's your two only options.
 
The way I see it, if America doesn't do something about health care costs in this nation then it will drag our nation down. The reform bill passed by our nation is a good first step.
If you don't want to debate your views then this isn't a place for you to post.

nomix, I am not sure that life expectancy is a good tool to measure the effectiveness of a healthcare system. There are too many factors outside of medical care that contribute to that statistic. Left handed people die on average 7 years before right handed people (so they say) and I doubt that is because they get different healthcare. Accidental deaths, ethnicity, and lifestyle play a major role as well.
 
I am living in a country, where I don't have to worry about costs for getting seriously ill. No matter what illness. I've got a plastic card in my wallet, that handles everything.

What can possibly be wrong with that?
 
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The way I see it, if America doesn't do something about health care costs in this nation then it will drag our nation down. The reform bill passed by our nation is a good first step.
If you don't want to debate your views then this isn't a place for you to post.

nomix, I am not sure that life expectancy is a good tool to measure the effectiveness of a healthcare system. There are too many factors outside of medical care that contribute to that statistic. Left handed people die on average 7 years before right handed people (so they say) and I doubt that is because they get different healthcare. Accidental deaths, ethnicity, and lifestyle play a major role as well.
It's not a perfect paramater, but it does give an indication. It's like chew, reputed to increase throath cancer. Sweden has far lower levels of throat cancer than the Spanish, and they don't sell chew in Spain. Just one example. The thing is, it all plays into it. Higher life expectancy relies on a lot of things, but health care is after all one of them. It's not just that we eat better than we did 60 years ago that lead to higher life expectancy now than in the 40s.

As for health care cost, I agree. You must do something.

I am living in a country, where I don't have to worry about costs for getting seriously ill. No matter what illness. I've got a plastic card in my wallet, that handles everything.

What can possibly be wrong with that?
Chip could go wrong. :p My VISA is playing up again..
 
It was a joke.
 
Well the good news in all this is I consider myself a Republican


That is good news?


I am living in a country, where I don't have to worry about costs for getting seriously ill. No matter what illness. I've got a plastic card in my wallet, that handles everything.

What can possibly be wrong with that?

Not enough people/companies (cause they are people too :rolleyes: ) are making a profit from it.
 
I am living in a country, where I don't have to worry about costs for getting seriously ill. No matter what illness. I've got a plastic card in my wallet, that handles everything.

What can possibly be wrong with that?
You also live in a country with at tax rate over 50 to 60% meaning you go to work and give half your money away!

In my state the State Of Alaska we have everyone in the state covered for Health we even have a program for hard to insure folks. Children are automatically given free Health Care if they need it and adults must apply. We do all this without paying State Tax. But all this was decided by us the citizens of Alaska. Our state and local governments cannot raise taxes, implement taxes, or barrow money without us voting for it. To have the Federal Government make a one size fits all law is just plain stupid. The Federal Government has no business in the Health Care world. They also have no business bailing out banks or auto makers. Since we are a republic the only recourse we as citizens have to these bad decision is to vote them out like we did last year and probably next year.
As for this being an international forum and you have the right to write whatever you please that is unless your constitution does not give the right of free speech. I don?t go on here and talk about how some countries in Europe have people live in slums while the country supports and sustains millionaire monarchies. I really don?t care how other countries run themselves so I cannot understand why other folks from around the world are so concerned with mine. Can you please explain that?
 
I don?t go on here and talk about how some countries in Europe have people live in slums while the country supports and sustains millionaire monarchies. I really don?t care how other countries run themselves so I cannot understand why other folks from around the world are so concerned with mine. Can you please explain that?

I think because in this increasingly connected world, the events in one country can have a impact (however negligible they might be) on the state of others. It's generally a good idea to be well rounded instead of only thinking about one's own country.
 
As we don't have a Business Thread and this is as a government department, I put this here.

BBC News - Tax deal with Swiss banks agreed by UK authorities

BBC News said:
The Swiss government has agreed to tax money held by UK citizens in Swiss bank accounts for the first time, while still hiding their identity.

The deal could see between ?3bn and ?6bn a year being handed to HMRC by the Swiss authorities.

The agreement is the latest part of HMRC's efforts to track down and tax money hidden in offshore bank accounts.

It follows a similar deal agreed earlier this month between Germany and the Swiss authorities.

more via link

This is a bit sneeky of the Tax people, the report says it will affect about 5,000 people and raise about ?3bn per year. Not me I may add, but it is probably a fair idea, if people are routing some of their annual salary to Switzerland to evade tax. I have never had that choice.

BBC News said:
Chris Oates of Ernst and Young said: "As a side effect of today's announcement, we could also see an increase in people moving their assets to Liechtenstein rather than paying up to the Swiss authorities."

Yeah, no shit.

Liechtenstein or any of the other tax havens around the world and I suspect that word of this impending deal has got around where money has already beeen shifted.
 
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I would move my money to Panama. Oh wait I already have money in a bank in Panama but it is legal and the taxes were paid. But you know I am a Republican who does not understand the world yet owns land in a foreign country. Even owning property in Panama I stay out of their countries business, they run their country like they want.
 
You also live in a country with at tax rate over 50 to 60% meaning you go to work and give half your money away!

In my state the State Of Alaska we have everyone in the state covered for Health we even have a program for hard to insure folks. Children are automatically given free Health Care if they need it and adults must apply. We do all this without paying State Tax. But all this was decided by us the citizens of Alaska. Our state and local governments cannot raise taxes, implement taxes, or barrow money without us voting for it. To have the Federal Government make a one size fits all law is just plain stupid. The Federal Government has no business in the Health Care world. They also have no business bailing out banks or auto makers. Since we are a republic the only recourse we as citizens have to these bad decision is to vote them out like we did last year and probably next year.
Which is your option. But it's my option to challenge your ideas, as it is your option to challenge mine. There are times when the US is one country, and there is a time when the US is a number of states. There are some things government can do for you, like setting a paramater for what can and can't be done. In the end, it's just not good enough to say that it's plain stupid for one size fits all. It's a question of what a government can and can't do. And as nations around the world has shown, health care is in fact one of the things that may be government run. And even if it isn't, it can still be a right. I put it to you, doesn't medicare work? If that works across the United States of America, I fail to see how a public option wouldn't work in all states. It is, if you pardon my French, ludicrous to say it can't work.

Of course it can. It's just not been tried. The NHS was met with much of the same resentment from many Brits in the 40s as we see towards universal coverage in the US right now. It's now a crucial part of British society, and trying to kill it off is political suicide. Try it, you'll like

As for this being an international forum and you have the right to write whatever you please that is unless your constitution does not give the right of free speech. I don?t go on here and talk about how some countries in Europe have people live in slums while the country supports and sustains millionaire monarchies. I really don?t care how other countries run themselves so I cannot understand why other folks from around the world are so concerned with mine. Can you please explain that?
You should. I'd welcome it. And debate you ferocously. We do have millionaire monarchs, that's a fact. Some of us, at least. For us, it's about tradition and history (and in the case of Norway, they are true national symbols, they're more respected than any other members of our societies). In comparable nations, it's not even clear if a monarchy is more expensive than a republic. I read a study recently of the cost of the royal houses of the Nordic countries and the republic of Finland. It emerged that the Finish system of a republic was even more expensive than any of the monarchies in Norway, Sweden or Denmark.

While they are important symbols of our nations, they hold no political power anyhow. I'll give you one point, though. Just like religion, monarchy is impossible to defend as an institution. It's about tradition, and it's about emotion. It's about a belief they represent us as a people, and as such are above silly things like politics and disagreement. That said, King Haakon VII was probably the greatest Norwegian of the last century. But I digress.

People are interested in how your nation is run because the United States of America is the biggest, and most powerful nation on earth. The influence of the United States is immense, we could use the Middle East and the conflict between Israel and Palestine as an example. In terms of the global economy, it all relies on the US. So when T-bills go fuck, our economy gets worse (we own 24.9 billion dollars of them). When the dollar is weak, our export industry goes fuck, when the US markets go pot, our economy suffers. The US is a close friend and ally, and it actually concerns us who runs her and how.

Then of course, there is genuine interest in the United States as a nation. Not just from a political science perspectice, but also from a historical perspective. I've spent a lot of time on US history, as I've spent time on British history and German history, not to mention a lot of other nations, regions and specific situations. History and society fascinates me, and I feel debates regarding US politics widens my perspective. You can learn more about the US in six months of debates than by reading a lof of accademic books about the US.

That's my answer. And I'll keep giving them no matter your ignorance of them.
 
I am living in a country, where I don't have to worry about costs for getting seriously ill. No matter what illness. I've got a plastic card in my wallet, that handles everything.

What can possibly be wrong with that?
I do not even need a plastic card. Get sick, get prescriptions for a fixed cost (about 10GBP per script which can be long running, or unless poor when it is free), need hospital and an op, in you go. Need something not so urgent wait for about 8 - 12 weeks - op fixed. Cost = zero to the sick. Now that means that in work benefit packages health care is not so beneficial - you get seen immediately and you get better 'hotel' facilities awaiting for your op.

Monarchs - some people for the life of me I do not know why, can not distinguish their constitutional role from their being as people who may well be flawed but no more than anyone else. The Australians want out of the system, that is their right, and many people in Ukania want a republic, all I will say is watch out for what you want you may well get it.

Still having said that the Irish got shot of the monarchy in 1948(ish) and seem to have done OK but Ireland is a small country.
 
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Yeah. Monarchy is very dependant on the person being a sovreign, though. King Haakon was our first modern King, and a bloody great one at that. King Olav was an institution in our society, King Harald har shown himself as a great man (and according to friends who served in the Royal Guard, quite funny), our Crown Prince has also shown great promise. So we're solid for the next 40-60 years. Which is nice.
 
Presidents' control over the economy is overrated. They can't change it much. It will tank in a few years due to its own accord.

+1 The economy has a life of it's own, some Presidents are just in the right (wrong) place at the right (wrong) time. While they can have some effect, it isn't as big as people think it is (the media makes it out to be).

I am living in a country, where I don't have to worry about costs for getting seriously ill. No matter what illness. I've got a plastic card in my wallet, that handles everything.

What can possibly be wrong with that?

My tax money going to fund healthcare for people that don't deserve it, that's whats wrong with it.
 
Okay nomix I hate to say it but you have made a good point on the interest in the US, you have done well. I still will never ever agree with your health care plans nope not ever actual it makes no sense to me to continue on with that argument so I will not. I am what is called a States? Rights Advocates which means I believe in a limited Federal Government and I believe that is how the Constitution and our founders wanted it. I too am glad we don?t have a national church; we saw how that worked out in Europe, things like Prince Bishops.
When I was in Norway many a Viking told me tales of their beloved King Olav. How he was known to ride on the train(?). nomix I also want to make clear since our debate seems pretty heated that I truly enjoyed my stay in your country you folks are very friendly. Norway is the first place I saw the Northern Lights in a cow pasture lol.
 
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