How 'gay rights' is being sold to America

The last gear in a manual transmission that is obviously better than the 5th Gear ;)
 
justin syder said:
So why not let one man, one woman and another woman marry?

Explain.
why not? explain!


justin syder said:
Clearly if a gay 15yr old and a gay 28yr old want to have sex why should it be illegal? Civil rights are being violated.
because a 15 year old might be too young to properly decide for himself what to do.

there is no difference between a 15 year old gay and a 15 year old straight. or do you see one? explain!

justin syder said:
Because you have to break tradition and last time I checked marriage was not created for gay or lesbians. It was to combat prostitution and polygamy and homosexuality.
where did you get that from? explain!


justin syder said:
If you can redefine marriage then age-of-consent laws can be changed as well. It would be viewed as progressive. You are just a bit conservative to this view now but time will change your view.
yes you can, but so what? you can possibly change any law!
but there is a clear difference between a law that defines the age of consent and a law that only allows a man and a women to marry.

Im not talking about rape, Im talking about a gay teenager that wants to have sex with a male regardless of age. You talk about gay rights then what about rights for gay teenagers?
they will have to wait, just like any other teenager as well!

Marriage is defined in law as the union of one man and one woman or as two people but if you allow polygamy and 3some marriage then you change that law. Why can't it be done for NAMBLA? They are a minority and have the same basic rights as anyone else.
the poeple who want to abolish age of consent laws completely are a tiny little minority and the rest of the liberal population will not see that as progressive.
they have the same rights as anybody else, INDEED! but homosexuals do NOT have the same rights as anybody else.

is that hard to understand?

justin syder said:
It's not about rights. It's about redefining truth and censoring all criticism so that militant homosexuals can be comfortable in their "lifestyle" without having to be disturbed by reality.
what truth is redefined??? and where the hell do you see those "militant homosexuals"??? and what is reality???

homosexuality is reality! and i can assure you that the average homosexual is much less militant than the average straight dude. they usually don't start fights after soccer games, get drunk in pubs and vandalize or beat their wifes.

justin syder said:
Look, my beef is that being gay translates into changine society for everyone based on what is done in the bedroom.
why does gay marriage change society for everyone? explain!


I have no hate or disgust for gays but I STONGLY disagree with their activism in labeling gay or equating it with being black. I dont care if two gays want to have sex but don't try to change a concept and mislead ppl into thinking they are opressed. They can do just about anything I can except marriage. Why? Well because marraige is the basis for a family. It is being eroded over the years and is no wonder why divorce is so high, ppl dont care about it and that is why it is failing.
then allow marriage only for people with children! that would be fair, wouldn't it?



Lets stay on topic, don't go off into what you want to discuss because you don't want to answer my questions. I have given some good questions to discuss, lets answer them please?
people have given you lots of answers and with this response i have given you a lot of answers as well. now its your turn to give us a proper response once!
 
justin syder said:
I dont care if two gays want to have sex but don't try to change a concept and mislead ppl into thinking they are opressed.

Wow. So you think gay people have it easy?

Man, I believe in karma, and I hope your cards are right. Funniest thing in the world is when homophobes have gay children.
 
///M said:
justin syder said:
I dont care if two gays want to have sex but don't try to change a concept and mislead ppl into thinking they are opressed.

Wow. So you think gay people have it easy?

Man, I believe in karma, and I hope your cards are right. Funniest thing in the world is when homophobes have gay children.
not for the kids... :x
 
Why do gay couples want to get married in the first place? Marrying each other, living together, and having a household is a very traditional thing to do. If gays want respect from traditionalists, why don't the gays respect the traditionalist views on marriage? There are many straight couples who never get married. Yet, they still live together and have a household. There are also single people who are perfectly happy living by themselves! Marriage does not guarantee happiness.

Marriage is not a religious sacrament anymore. The ceremony is held in churches, but state laws often define the contract that bind a couple in marriage. I think this is why people get the idea that gay marriage should be allowed. The religious part doesn't have to be changed. It's only a matter of changing the law. It's just a complicated battle between church and state again . . .

I think gay couples are demanding too much when they ask for the same legal rights as a married couple. It was their choice to be gay. So it was their choice to not be eligible for the rights of a married couple. If they want these right so badly, they can choose to be straight! Simple as that! If they want to be "happy" they can do so without getting married. I think they're just in it for the money. They should learn to live with the existing laws instead of wasting their energy making an annoyance of themselves.

I agree with Justin. Being black and being gay are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. You can choose to be gay, but you can't choose to be black. Therefore, it is wrong to discriminate a person because he is black. However, the law can (and always has) discriminated people based on the decisions they made on their own free will.

If gay couples want to earn respect from society, then they would have to respect the society in which they live first!
 
Z Draci said:
I think gay couples are demanding too much when they ask for the same legal rights as a married couple. It was their choice to be gay. So it was their choice to not be eligible for the rights of a married couple. If they want these right so badly, they can choose to be straight! Simple as that! If they want to be "happy" they can do so without getting married. I think they're just in it for the money. They should learn to live with the existing laws instead of wasting their energy making an annoyance of themselves.

I agree with Justin. Being black and being gay are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. You can choose to be gay, but you can't choose to be black. Therefore, it is wrong to discriminate a person because he is black. However, the law can (and always has) discriminated people based on the decisions they made on their own free will.

If gay couples want to earn respect from society, then they would have to respect the society in which they live first!
its not a choice...

and gays do respect society, i have not seen them throwing over government or setting cars on fire in order to get the right to marry. all they want is equal rights. how do you show disrespect for society by demanding equal rights?
 
Z Draci said:
*snip*
It was their choice to be gay. So it was their choice to not be eligible for the rights of a married couple.
*snip*

You can choose to be gay, but you can't choose to be black. Therefore, it is wrong to discriminate a person because he is black. However, the law can (and always has) discriminated people based on the decisions they made on their own free will.

How do you figure that being gay is a choice? You obviously don't know or talk to many gay people, then. Do you somehow figure they woke up one morning and though, "Gee, I think I'll have sex with other men, 'cuz that would really annoy the straight people! Yeah!"

You must be completely deluded. Of all the homosexual people I know, both men and women, none of them "chose" to be gay. None. And yes, I asked every one of them, becuase I wanted to know.
 
justin syder said:
It's not about rights. It's about redefining truth and censoring all criticism so that militant conservatives can be comfortable without having to be disturbed by reality.
there, fixed.

I think the right just isn't comfortable with people who are different and it's like pulling teeth to get them to admit equal rights. What is the fundamental problem with allowing gay couples to will property, have visitation rights and recieve tax benefits? What is the real problem here? It isn't opening the door for anything else, and you know that argument is just a weak attempt to justify a prejudice. This is only the latest in a series of arguments proposed by anti-gays after previous ones have been batted down. The fundamental problem here is prejudice. These people do something that most straigh people can't even comprehend doing, and it scares a lot of people. They feel threatened that someday thier kids may turn out gay, for whatever reason gays are seen as less than human, if they weren't then this discussion wouldn't be going on.

Would you deny rights to couples that have anal sex? or oral sex? those are both not natural and even looked down upon by the bible. So why not reach into straight people's lives and tell them they can't get blowjobs or use sex toys?

this is just a result of uptight people who can't deal with people who are different in such a way, they feel threatened by it so they want to make sure they are not seen as equals.
 
Marriage is not a religious sacrament anymore. The ceremony is held in churches, but state laws often define the contract that bind a couple in marriage. I think this is why people get the idea that gay marriage should be allowed. The religious part doesn't have to be changed. It's only a matter of changing the law. It's just a complicated battle between church and state again . . .

Z Draci, Of course, because when you remove the Church frmo the eqaution you can do just about anything. You should consider donating to the ACLU, they are doing a good job at getting rid of the Church from society and gov't. Makes it easier to do the "progressive" things they want to do.

this is just a result of uptight people who can't deal with people who are different in such a way, they feel threatened by it so they want to make sure they are not seen as equals.

I am done with you. You have assumed things about me, insulted me to validate your argument and assume everything the church believes is what I believe when I clearly stated that I am for condom use and that I don't agree with 100% the Church states. Of course though, you want to label me a fanatic to favor your argument and after repeated attempts to get you to leave the low remarks or insults out of your posts you continue to do so. Thanks for debating with respect. Your opinion is much greater than mine, I'm just some bible pusher to you. Anymore comments to you would be wasting my time.

How do you figure that being gay is a choice? You obviously don't know or talk to many gay people, then. Do you somehow figure they woke up one morning and though, "Gee, I think I'll have sex with other men, 'cuz that would really annoy the straight people! Yeah!"

Can you prove with biology or science that they are "born that way"?

and gays do respect society, i have not seen them throwing over government or setting cars on fire in order to get the right to marry. all they want is equal rights. how do you show disrespect for society by demanding equal rights?

Because if they were then their arguments wouldn't be taken seriously. It would be open and shut case, instead they have successfully gotten in the media and made their "plight" legitimate in the minds of many ill-informed.

There exists no objective way of determining whether a person is innately homosexual. A person can't take a blood test or DNA test to prove that he or she is "gay." It is basically a person's claim that he or she is homosexual. Instead, pro-gay groups, activists etc, argue that homosexuality must be something that they are born with because no one would choose to be "gay" and voluntarily allow the resulting social stigma. This argument is invalid, since many people choose lifestyles that others condemn. Moreover, there are many homosexuals who freely admit that their lifestyle is a voluntary preference. Also, I myself choose to take this postition in this argument even amidst the ridicule and overwheelming criticism. ;)
 
justin syder said:
I am done with you. You have assumed things about me, insulted me to validate your argument and assume everything the church believes is what I believe when I clearly stated that I am for condom use and that I don't agree with 100% the Church states. Of course though, you want to label me a fanatic to favor your argument and after repeated attempts to get you to leave the low remarks or insults out of your posts you continue to do so. Thanks for debating with respect. Your opinion is much greater than mine, I'm just some bible pusher to you. Anymore comments to you would be wasting my time.
I don't think I directed any of that towards you specifically, so perhaps you my comments just hit a little too close to home even though I never directed them towards you. Just a theory.

There still has yet to be given a justification for being anti-gay rights. The only thing I have seen is that it's a "gateway" to pedophilia and beastiality :roll: and we all know that is total BS.

This is just a way for uptight people to try and remain comfortable within thier little sphere and not deal with people who are different. This is just an effort to marginalize the gay community so they don't feel uncomfortable or threatened by gays. Being black is not the same as being gay, but it's the same reaction from the same kind of people. People who are afraid that a formerly underground culture that is very different from thier own is coming more into the mainstream and threatening thier way of life, beliefs and popular culture. people used to hope thier daughters didn't turn out to be "nigger lovers" are of the same type as the people who hope thier sons don't grow up to be "faggots". people who used to go out "nigger beating" are the same type who go "fag bashing". It's all just unreasonable fear and hatred stemming from generations of intolerant teachings. This group of people hurts nobody, yet they are shunned and banished to the fringe of society. Giving gays the same rights as everyone else would niether harm nor disadvantage anyone, yet people can't seem to grasp this concept and continue to push for thier marginalization out of fear and misunderstanding.

no wonder suicide rates are so high among gays.
 
How can anybody say sexual orientation is not a choice???
It is a choice just like religion, political affiliation, national citizenship, etc.

In the free world, we have the freedom to choose if we want to be straight or gay. Traditionally, people choose to be straight. However, people are just as free to be gay as well. It's a choice made by the individual on his own free will.

Consider this idea. If an individual is simply born gay, is it wrong for a straight man to declare his homosexuality later in life? Are you saying that some people have God given rights to be gay while others have none? I don't think there's such elitist homosexuality groups in existence. It's plainly a choice made by the individual.

Gays need to respect the laws in society that only allows one man and one women to marry. Like I already said, marriage doesn't automatically give you happiness. If happiness is all that gay couples want, they can achieve that without marriage. I think the only reason they want marriage rights is because they want the economical advantages (tax benefits, etc). That in itself is selfish and greedy. This is why I said they should respect society and don't ask for more than they need.
 
So, when did you choose to be straight?

I never remember making that decision.

"The consensus of psychologists is that sexual orientation, in most individuals, is shaped at an early age; and is not voluntarily changeable."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual

EDIT:

Hell, I don't even see why I'm debating this with you. Fact is, homosexuality is natural, whether or not you choose to be one. The point here is the definition of marriage, which you want to believe has always been exclusive to men and women. Again, the idea of same-sex marriage has existed before your Judeo-Christian definition. Until you prove without a shadow of a doubt that the Bible is indeed devine, you have no right to impose your beliefs on others. We aren't in the dark ages anymore, religion doesn't dictate the laws.
 
justin syder said:
Can you prove with biology or science that they are "born that way"?

Can you prove with biology or science that they aren't and that it's a choice? Until you can, the only people who know for sure are the homosexuals, and I'm willing to take their word for it.

I have never chosen to be straight, I just am. Did you choose to be straight?
 
Z Draci said:
How can anybody say sexual orientation is not a choice???
It is a choice just like religion, political affiliation, national citizenship, etc.

In the free world, we have the freedom to choose if we want to be straight or gay. Traditionally, people choose to be straight. However, people are just as free to be gay as well. It's a choice made by the individual on his own free will.

Consider this idea. If an individual is simply born gay, is it wrong for a straight man to declare his homosexuality later in life? Are you saying that some people have God given rights to be gay while others have none? I don't think there's such elitist homosexuality groups in existence. It's plainly a choice made by the individual.

Gays need to respect the laws in society that only allows one man and one women to marry. Like I already said, marriage doesn't automatically give you happiness. If happiness is all that gay couples want, they can achieve that without marriage. I think the only reason they want marriage rights is because they want the economical advantages (tax benefits, etc). That in itself is selfish and greedy. This is why I said they should respect society and don't ask for more than they need.

You don't know any gay people, right?
 
Slippery slope alone. You guys have proved that point.

If you just advocated for gay marriage that is one thing but NUMEROUS posts here also were fine with Polygamy and three-some marriage.

Whos is to say that the next generation of Liberals will find it in their heart to abolition of age-of-consent laws. Its just a matter of time before you feel that sort of change is needed. A liberal mind doesnt set any boundaries.
 
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