22,000 Pound 1200BHP Engines.

phrenzy said:
Australian v8 supercars havehuge reliability issues and they dont make anywhere nearthat power and they cantbeused on theroad (practicallyspeaking let alonelegally).

how many horses does mark skaifes car have? that is only supposed tolast a couple of races and I dont know aboutyou but I wouldtake an rs4 for city and country drivingoverthatany day.

I take it your keyboard looks like this?
http://img232.imageshack.**/img232/2852/spacebar9ip.jpg

As for the V8 Supercars (which I believe is what you are talking about - took me a while to interpret your post) - as far as racecars are concerned those things are damn near bulletproof - you don't see all that many mechanical retirements.

Of course that has very little relevance here because those vehicles are built from the ground-up as racecars, and share no componentry of significance with their road-going counterparts.
 
fbc said:
phrenzy said:
Australian v8 supercars havehuge reliability issues and they dont make anywhere nearthat power and they cantbeused on theroad (practicallyspeaking let alonelegally).

how many horses does mark skaifes car have? that is only supposed tolast a couple of races and I dont know aboutyou but I wouldtake an rs4 for city and country drivingoverthatany day.


As for the V8 Supercars (which I believe is what you are talking about - took me a while to interpret your post) - as far as racecars are concerned those things are damn near bulletproof - you don't see all that many mechanical retirements.

Of course that has very little relevance here because those vehicles are built from the ground-up as racecars, and share no componentry of significance with their road-going counterparts.


i agree. there is no possible way to compare a race car to a road car.
 
feistl said:
Holding together - In Australia and America cars are built to handle a lot of power. Maybe not 1200BHP but definatly 600BHP. So if you dont go overboard the standard australian family car is built well enough to handle the power.

Relability - If these engines and cars can do 180,000miles in Australia (considerably more harse on cars the in the UK) they will run forever and a day. There are many engines that are less than 5 years old that have traveled more than 150,000Miles and are still running well.

All im getting at is these big V8 are cheap to build and easy to upgrade. If you compare any European V8, V10 or V12 the Chevy engines are cheaper.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

i'm sorry

HAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA

Really, do you actually believe the stuff you are writing there? Family cars built to handle 600hp? Do you have any idea what you are talking about at all?
That topic is kind of pathetic to discuss, because if you do a tiny little bit of thinking and ignore the stupid and obviously wrong 150.000mile-BS you will see that

1) you can never compare a tuned engine with an engine in a car thats actually sold, because the tuned engine will break and explode and nobody will get sued for that

2) all cars - especially australian or american cars - are built to a budget, thats why they are so cheap. and thats why the CAN'T handle 600hp.

3) Never ever compare a souped up family car with a real sports car.

The man and horse statement was worth a laugh and completely right.


P.S.: I have two questions, have you ever driven a car and how old are you?
 
Un-Dee said:
feistl said:
Holding together - In Australia and America cars are built to handle a lot of power. Maybe not 1200BHP but definatly 600BHP. So if you dont go overboard the standard australian family car is built well enough to handle the power.

Relability - If these engines and cars can do 180,000miles in Australia (considerably more harse on cars the in the UK) they will run forever and a day. There are many engines that are less than 5 years old that have traveled more than 150,000Miles and are still running well.

All im getting at is these big V8 are cheap to build and easy to upgrade. If you compare any European V8, V10 or V12 the Chevy engines are cheaper.


P.S.: I have two questions, have you ever driven a car and how old are you?

You I was wondering the same thing...

10:1 odds say 15-18 y/o
25:1 odds say 25-35 w/ a severe dissability

Now taking bets....
 
I do appologise for my indecipherable post, a combinations of a shoulder reconstruction and a new keyboard that I cant get out of the house to replace has made all forms of written communication quite hard.

but yes you did get the gist of my post. And V8 super cars are bullet proof onthe track, but theyhaveenginerebuildsinperiods oftime that aremeasured inhoursnot months of use.

And that is exactly my point, you cant compare Australian fFrd and Holdens to their v8 supercar counterparts. they ARE built from the ground up espescially for that purpose. they are designed to handle huge amounts of power and give superior road handling and balance. And despite all that they can't and don't last anywhere near a practical amount of time compared to what is expected of even high performance streetlegal car.

Admittedly they do drive harder and faster than a road car would be expected to but conversly they dont make anything near 1200BHP.

Driving a 1200bhp street legal monaro would be fun for about an hour till you realise for a start the only place you can use that sort of power is on a drag strip and second when you try to use that power on the drag strip you can put it to the ground (assuming it even got to the wheels wihtout spitting shards of metal all over the tarmac).
\yes you could build a 1200bhp engine but it would be better used as a piece of art in your living room than in a car you intended to drive around anywhere.
 
I bet this is mentioned but just in case...

Don't most drag cars or really nice "souped" supras (and etc) require 117 racing fuel anyways? You realize it would cost a lot of money to make the car go from point a to point b.
 
Dark_Templer_102 said:
I bet this is mentioned but just in case...

Don't most drag cars or really nice "souped" supras (and etc) require 117 racing fuel anyways? You realize it would cost a lot of money to make the car go from point a to point b.

"required" is a tough word. for optimal performance and hp yes, but can be run on lower octane with retarded timing.

higher octane=higher combustion temperature=higher possible compression=more advanced timing=more hp

with old carbed engines, running lower octane could blow a whole in your piston due to detonation if you didnt manually change the timing, today modern electronic ignitions will auto-magically retard your timing when the engine starts to ping, greatly reducing the risk of damage due to detonation.
 
feistl said:
... you can turn the Supercharges off with a small switch so you can run the engine without boost...

How does this work? More info please.
I'm not too well versed in forced indcution but aren't superchargers belt driven? soo.... how do you turn off a supercharger if its belt driven by the crankshaft? Fair enough you can decrease the boost BUT that is NOT turning the supercharger off.

As for saying that the VX and VZ engines can handle 1200bhop reliably, where's the proof? The engines from those cars may be based on old technology but they weren't manufactured a decade ago. So how can it be said that a relatively "new" engine is reliable when it's just come from the factory?

Don't get me wrong i'm not a V8 basher, I actually quite like em. But to say that 1200bhp can be achieved "cheaply" and "reliably" and then question why manufacturers don't make car's with that much power just doesn't sit well with me. They have to spend time and money on R & D not just on the power output of the engine but of a car as a whole. They have legislations and law which they much adhere to.

Power can be made cheaply, just add a turbo or a supercharger. A good example was a CRX project car which was featured in a NZ DVD. In total they spent 18000 NZD or roughly 11000USD and their results was a Honda CRX with a 1.8L turbo charged engine producing roughly 400BHP. The 11000 USD INCLUDES the cost of purchasing the car. The 22 000 pounds which you talked about was just and engine and modifications.


Reliability and drivabillity (sp?) are a whole different matter. No point in going fast if you can't stop or turn. My money would go with the CRX, cheaper to run (only 1.8L), probably easier to drive (since it won't be wheel spinning all that much from all the torque, wouldn't need a triple plate clutch) and probably won't run out of petrol in half and hour.

Personally I think 400hp is more than enough for car's which are on the road. There are already enough idiots with low powered cars, imagine what they'd get up to if they had more power.
 
fr3aki3 said:
feistl said:
... you can turn the Supercharges off with a small switch so you can run the engine without boost...

How does this work? More info please.
I'm not too well versed in forced indcution but aren't superchargers belt driven? soo.... how do you turn off a supercharger if its belt driven by the crankshaft? Fair enough you can decrease the boost BUT that is NOT turning the supercharger off.

Via a clutch fitted to the supercharger drive pulley - the switch engages and disengages drive to the 'charger (I don't agree with this 1200bhp madness btw, just answering the question)
 
fbc said:
fr3aki3 said:
feistl said:
... you can turn the Supercharges off with a small switch so you can run the engine without boost...

How does this work? More info please.
I'm not too well versed in forced indcution but aren't superchargers belt driven? soo.... how do you turn off a supercharger if its belt driven by the crankshaft? Fair enough you can decrease the boost BUT that is NOT turning the supercharger off.

Via a clutch fitted to the supercharger drive pulley - the switch engages and disengages drive to the 'charger (I don't agree with this 1200bhp madness btw, just answering the question)

ah... ok cool
Thanks for clearing that up, learn something new everyday.
:thumbsup:
 
Actually on the VW TSI engines a supercharger is attached to a magnetic couple and activates at a low RPM or during acceleration to assist the turbocharger unit. Its all automatic though, no real user input.
 
fr3aki3 said:
Power can be made cheaply, just add a turbo or a supercharger. A good example was a CRX project car which was featured in a NZ DVD. In total they spent 18000 NZD or roughly 11000USD and their results was a Honda CRX with a 1.8L turbo charged engine producing roughly 400BHP. The 11000 USD INCLUDES the cost of purchasing the car. The 22 000 pounds which you talked about was just and engine and modifications.
heres a better example.... mitsu colt with a 4g63. heres the specs
eDSC00304.JPG

look at how much he spent and his trap 5200 bucks to have a 148 mph tramp. insane.

its no more though, went into a wall at 200 mph (im not kidding)
eDSC00217.JPG
 
fr3aki3 said:
fbc said:
fr3aki3 said:
feistl said:
... you can turn the Supercharges off with a small switch so you can run the engine without boost...

How does this work? More info please.
I'm not too well versed in forced indcution but aren't superchargers belt driven? soo.... how do you turn off a supercharger if its belt driven by the crankshaft? Fair enough you can decrease the boost BUT that is NOT turning the supercharger off.

Via a clutch fitted to the supercharger drive pulley - the switch engages and disengages drive to the 'charger (I don't agree with this 1200bhp madness btw, just answering the question)

ah... ok cool
Thanks for clearing that up, learn something new everyday.
:thumbsup:

Just like an AC compressor - it is also belt driven, yet it isnt always running.
 
BTW, these engines are in LOADS of cars. Mosler MT900s, Ultima GTR and CanAm, the Elfin cars, etc... the point is that a big V8 is easy to slot into a purpose made tub, but not a tiny engine bay like that of an elise or a pontiac solstice (though they did make the second one work).
 
Jacobfox said:
the point is that a big V8 is easy to slot into a purpose made tub, but not a tiny engine bay like that of an elise or a pontiac solstice (though they did make the second one work).

also it's not a BIG v8 they managed to put but still it's a RS4 engine in an elise and with lots of modifications to fit it .(It was for sold on mobile.de few times ago that's why I remembered)
1155_vp1nr.jpg

1155_82o68.jpg

res3518.jpg
 
I read some where that with just a $25 chip installed on the 06 Mustang GT500 it would boost HP from 450 too 700HP and the engine internals should still be able too handle it. I'm not 100% sure, I think I'll have too read back.
 
BlitzR said:
I read some where that with just a $25 chip installed on the 06 Mustang GT500 it would boost HP from 450 too 700HP and the engine internals should still be able too handle it. I'm not 100% sure, I think I'll have too read back.

I'd find that extremely hard to believe - that sort of a power gain without changing any components? Nope, not going to happen.
 
fbc said:
BlitzR said:
I read some where that with just a $25 chip installed on the 06 Mustang GT500 it would boost HP from 450 too 700HP and the engine internals should still be able too handle it. I'm not 100% sure, I think I'll have too read back.

I'd find that extremely hard to believe - that sort of a power gain without changing any components? Nope, not going to happen.
You find these things a lot on ebay. Look at this. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Performance-R...074492245QQcategoryZ72205QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
?1 for 20bhp. I'd sooner drive the car into a lake than put one of these on.
 
Tweaking the ECU on some engines can create significant gain. I think I am wrong about the 200HP gain but not everything is imposible.
 
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