Relatively complete Nurburgring Times list w/ Sources

You might aswell ignore the Veyron time. It was tested by some Australian magazine so persumably by some driver who doesn't know the track aswell as most of the times.
If Sport Auto tested it I believe it would be pushing the Carrera GT.
 
kem said:
While this can be a fun reference to look at it cannot be the definitive test of a sports car because there are too many variables:

Driver
Tires
Weather
Traffic
..and so on.

It would be intersting to see a best motoring style show, where they take the top sports cars, put in the same driver and put the same tires (or at least same class of tires) on each car and then you can truely see which cars will do best.
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i'd suggest reading the other posts in this thread or at least you should pay some attention to the list itself before you judge it. ;)
 
Oh my god that Jaguar XJ220 is fast! It's pretty old already and I thought it was an ugly-assed dragracer but it seems to do corners very well.

And the Porsche Carrera GT was a bit of a surprise to me. I know it's fast but I didn't know it's practically the fastest thing there is...

Veyron is a bit of a let down. However, it was never designed for it specifically like it's contenders.
ED: Ah, seems the time Veyron did isn't really comparable as it's not done by a professional driver.
 
static said:
Oh my god that Jaguar XJ220 is fast! It's pretty old already and I thought it was an ugly-assed dragracer but it seems to do corners very well.

And the Porsche Carrera GT was a bit of a surprise to me. I know it's fast but I didn't know it's practically the fastest thing there is...

Veyron is a bit of a let down. However, it was never designed for it specifically like it's contenders.
ED: Ah, seems the time Veyron did isn't really comparable as it's not done by a professional driver.
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Remember that the Veyron weighs 4200lbs, that's 1000lbs more than the Carrera GT. Sure it has trick AWD and 1001hp, but I don't think it could get much lower than 7:38 or so.
 
Vitamin J said:
Best Motoring is the most biased car show ever made.
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My god I thought I was the only one on this forum who actually knew this!

It's amazing how no matter how exact the tests are, people will refute them.

Yes there are variables, but the tests it so show what the car can do. As long as the testers don't deliberatly skew the test results by using a shitty driver and the conditions are relatively similar (i.e. dry track but perhaps temps might be off a few degree's), the numbers should be acceptable.

People don't seem to bitch about TG numbers even though most feel the stig is multiple people.

Lastly you same guys bitching about these results will at the same time claim best motoring is an unbiased factual program, even though an overweight, underpowered japanese car was outpacing cars in a completely different league.
 
thedguy said:
My god I thought I was the only one on this forum who actually knew this!

It's amazing how no matter how exact the tests are, people will refute them.

Yes there are variables, but the tests it so show what the car can do. As long as the testers don't deliberatly skew the test results by using a shitty driver and the conditions are relatively similar (i.e. dry track but perhaps temps might be off a few degree's), the numbers should be acceptable.

People don't seem to bitch about TG numbers even though most feel the stig is multiple people.

Lastly you same guys bitching about these results will at the same time claim best motoring is an unbiased factual program, even though an overweight, underpowered japanese car was outpacing cars in a completely different league.
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ok when you watch the show, you'll note that all the races are multipes laps. And they've got a time attack/quickest lap as well. I really dont see how best motoring is biased at all. You'll notice that the ZO6 lost to a tuned STI overall in a race, but the ZO6 had a quicker time attack.

Who/what exactly are they biased against? In the last BM the RS4 was quicker than an M3, a Nissan Fuga, and a Cadillac STS-V. And they ALL said the M3 was the best to drive. Where is the bias involved here? Sure the NSX-R wins quite a few races, but weighs 2700 lbs and is a track car built for racing on tracks like Tsukuba
 
bartboy9891 said:
ok when you watch the show, you'll note that all the races are multipes laps. And they've got a time attack/quickest lap as well. I really dont see how best motoring is biased at all. You'll notice that the ZO6 lost to a tuned STI overall in a race, but the ZO6 had a quicker time attack.

Who/what exactly are they biased against? In the last BM the RS4 was quicker than an M3, a Nissan Fuga, and a Cadillac STS-V. And they ALL said the M3 was the best to drive. Where is the bias involved here? Sure the NSX-R wins quite a few races, but weighs 2700 lbs and is a track car built for racing on tracks like Tsukuba
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I think it has more to due with an NSX not only beating an AWD 550+hp Lamborghini Murcielago to the first corner, but also staying ahead of it the whole race.

Or maybe that a 2.0L S2000 can stay ahead of an M3, M5, Elise, Boxster, but can't stay ahead of a 350Z Track in teh same race.

Or that they praise anything Nissan, and slow down the other cars so it looks like an R34 is faster than it really is.
 
^ see i thought that when i was first watching BM/BMI. But since then i have actually been LOOKING for signs of trickery and i cant really come up with anything. The races' starting grid are set up by price, so the NSX-R (the murcielago being 2.5x the price) was well ahead to start with. And Tsukuba has such a sharp first corner that you need to brake well in advance.
I like Tsukuba and the way they set up the grid because it tests to see if the higher priced cars can make up the handicap. I cant really comment on the S2000 one because i dont recall seeing it.
 
BMI is biased in favour of the Japanese cars. The shitty (and I mean really shitty) drivers are always in the european/American cars, and they always fuck up while driving them; they just can't drive anything non-Asian.
As far as using Nurburgring lap times as official comparison for a car's performance, its kind of obscure - with the amount of variables as previously stated, as well as the length of the track skewing data, it can't be taken seriously. But that doesn't mean it isn't interesting to read.
 
I also dont think that BM is biased , not in a manner to fix the outcome anyway- Only In a way that they like their cars and are proud of their cars and history. Which they should be. But then again they are VERY fond of certain european cars and if a car is due credit they shall certantly give it.
 
Anyone know where an Ariel Atom would fit on that list?
 
THGL said:
Anyone know where an Ariel Atom would fit on that list?
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it'll need aero mods just to compete. Those Radicals/Donkervoorts at the top of the list are extensively modified to make it out alive
 
7:58 --- 156.652 km/h -- Audi RS4 4.2 V8 FSI
7:59 --- 154.822 km/h -- Porsche 997 Carrera S

Ok, wtf?
 
Vitamin J said:
I think it has more to due with an NSX not only beating an AWD 550+hp Lamborghini Murcielago to the first corner, but also staying ahead of it the whole race.

Or maybe that a 2.0L S2000 can stay ahead of an M3, M5, Elise, Boxster, but can't stay ahead of a 350Z Track in teh same race.

Or that they praise anything Nissan, and slow down the other cars so it looks like an R34 is faster than it really is.
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You know what handling is, right? You know that BM doesn't just run drag races. The three cars you mentioned (NSX-R, S2000 and R34) are 3 of the best handling cars in the world.

On a technical track with professional drivers i'd expect them to outperform Boxsters and M3's all day long. The M5 doesn't come into it because it's slower than the M3 on technical tracks; it's a tourer.

Also remember that BM tends to put the cars in grid order of lowest price to highest, and the best drivers in the less powerful cars, to even things out. So the less powerful cheaper cars will get the grid slot and better driver. The BMW's and Lamborghinis not so.
 
Ill take an RS4 please, any colour, any interiour, any gear box.. id just take one.. :)


0-100 times for rs4 vs skyline r33 gtr? and quater mile times how much woudl they differ?
 
Vitamin J said:
Remember that the Veyron weighs 4200lbs, that's 1000lbs more than the Carrera GT. Sure it has trick AWD and 1001hp, but I don't think it could get much lower than 7:38 or so.
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The weight of the Veyron is not a quastion. It can weigh 420000000lbs, but if it does 0 - 100mk/h in 2.5 s. it should show. And I bet it corners good to.

So maby the driver or the conditions was the isue or both.

Koenigsegg CCR was second to the 250 m/h race, but it is higher in this list. So who knows how this thing works. Ant it was lapt by their own driver as I understand.

Pagani Zonda F is faster then them both by ~10 seconds :D Thats the important thing to me. :D
 
GraemeH said:
You know what handling is, right? You know that BM doesn't just run drag races. The three cars you mentioned (NSX-R, S2000 and R34) are 3 of the best handling cars in the world.

On a technical track with professional drivers i'd expect them to outperform Boxsters and M3's all day long. The M5 doesn't come into it because it's slower than the M3 on technical tracks; it's a tourer.

Also remember that BM tends to put the cars in grid order of lowest price to highest, and the best drivers in the less powerful cars, to even things out. So the less powerful cheaper cars will get the grid slot and better driver. The BMW's and Lamborghinis not so.
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So a professional driver in an S2000 will out drive a professional driver in an M3, M5, Boxster, and Elise? I highly doubt it. I'll give you the M5 and M3 argument for now, but you must realize that the Elise is what the S2000 wants to be. A pro driver in an Elise will out run a pro driver in an S2000, especially on a techinical track like Tsukuba!
 
ahpadt said:
7:58 --- 156.652 km/h -- Audi RS4 4.2 V8 FSI
7:59 --- 154.822 km/h -- Porsche 997 Carrera S

Ok, wtf?
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There was an issue of Automobile where they wanted to find out just how close the RS4 was to the Carrera, and it turns out its faster. Rear engine and all.
XYZviper said:
The weight of the Veyron is not a quastion. It can weigh 420000000lbs, but if it does 0 - 100mk/h in 2.5 s. it should show. And I bet it corners good to.

So maby the driver or the conditions was the isue or both.

Koenigsegg CCR was second to the 250 m/h race, but it is higher in this list. So who knows how this thing works. Ant it was lapt by their own driver as I understand.

Pagani Zonda F is faster then them both by ~10 seconds :D Thats the important thing to me. :D
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If you think weight (especially 1000lbs) doesn't matter, then you have no place on this board. I race in Spec Miata, my car has a 1.6L engine and weighs 2300lbs. The 1.8L cars are faster on the straights because they have more power, but they have an extra 100lbs of weight which slows them down BIG TIME in the corners.
 
Vitamin J said:
If you think weight (especially 1000lbs) doesn't matter, then you have no place on this board. I race in Spec Miata, my car has a 1.6L engine and weighs 2300lbs. The 1.8L cars are faster on the straights because they have more power, but they have an extra 100lbs of weight which slows them down BIG TIME in the corners.
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Isn't it the same engine, just with a bigger bore/longer stroke? Or do the 1,8-litre cars have a weight penalty?
 
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