Cali. wants spanking to be illegal. Blind_IO last seen cursing parents, wallowing.

Cobol reminded me of another beef I have with our justice system. The courts believe teens can be as responsible as adults, and in many cases they end up being tried as adults. Yet they don't get any other responsibilites and freedoms of adulthood. (Voting, drinking, smoking, ect.) It seems unfair that they can skew their definition of adulthood when it suits their means. Ok I'm done. [/rant]
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Oh, so a 17-year-old can be slapped on the wrist for murder because s/he isn't allowed to purchase alcohol? Give me a break. The lack of certain rights doesn't equal comprehension of a crime.
 
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epp_b said:
Oh, so a 17-year-old can be slapped on the wrist for murder because s/he isn't allowed to purchase alcohol? Give me a break. The lack of certain rights doesn't equal comprehension of a crime.
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How about the fact that at 17 the pre-frontal cortex isn't even fully formed yet? Psychology aside, physiologically adolescents have more in common with children than adults. How can you justify charging a 15 year old as an adult, and therefore putting him into an adult criminal institution for 25 years? Do the math, the actions of a messed up 15 year old will result in his being imprisoned as "punishment" until he is 40. How is that just?

Look, I'm no hippy-dippy liberal, but I can say with 100% certainty that what you are proposing isn't justice and it's not going to deter this kind of crime. Kids that commit crimes of this nature are just as disturbed as kids who attempt suicide. Both actions are manifestations of the same state of mind. They honestly don't understand the permanence of their actions. I'm not saying that they should "get away with it," but some consideration has to be made for their state of development.

I notice that there isn't a whole lot of criticism about the parents of these kids.
 
The point is, what we've been saying for a hundred-and-twenty-tvelve years, is that they aren't responsible enough to vote, to drink, to do pretty much anything, tradition even says that their parents can slap them if they don't behave (Is it legal to slap adults?).

If we're reluctant to view them as responsible when they'd like to be it, we have to be just as reluctant to threat them as adults when WE want to.
 
How about the fact that at 17 the pre-frontal cortex isn't even fully formed yet? Psychology aside, physiologically adolescents have more in common with children than adults. How can you justify charging a 15 year old as an adult, and therefore putting him into an adult criminal institution for 25 years? Do the math, the actions of a messed up 15 year old will result in his being imprisoned as "punishment" until he is 40. How is that just?

Look, I'm no hippy-dippy liberal, but I can say with 100% certainty that what you are proposing isn't justice and it's not going to deter this kind of crime. Kids that commit crimes of this nature are just as disturbed as kids who attempt suicide. Both actions are manifestations of the same state of mind. They honestly don't understand the permanence of their actions. I'm not saying that they should "get away with it," but some consideration has to be made for their state of development.

I notice that there isn't a whole lot of criticism about the parents of these kids.
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That fact of the matter is that they know better and they went and did it anyways. End of story.
 
epp_b said:
That fact of the matter is that they know better and they went and did it anyways. End of story.
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:wall:

Have you not been paying attention? They don't "know better." They don't see the world the same way you and I do. Ok, the next person that posts that kids are just miniature adults had better have at least two years of Child Development classes and cite an article from a current peer-reviewed journal. If you can't do this then you will just have to believe someone who has been studying Psychology for the last 7 years when he tells you that the brains of kids and adolescents are not the same as the brains of adults. I would think this would be obvious to anyone with kids, clinical training or not.
 
Blind_Io said:
:wall:

Have you not been paying attention? They don't "know better." They don't see the world the same way you and I do. Ok, the next person that posts that kids are just miniature adults had better have at least two years of Child Development classes and cite an article from a current peer-reviewed journal. If you can't do this then you will just have to believe someone who has been studying Psychology for the last 7 years when he tells you that the brains of kids and adolescents are not the same as the brains of adults. I would think this would be obvious to anyone with kids, clinical training or not.
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keep in mind most of the people on this site are like 13 years old.
 
So a 14 or 15 or 17 year old doesn't "know better" than to steal or murder? Give me a break.
 
they may know it's wrong, but thier concept of the world and right and wrong isn't fully developed yet, and sometimes kids will equate shooting someone with stealing things, they're both wrong but sometimes kids don't have a grasp on just how wrong some things are.

but i'm no expert.
 
zenkidori said:
they may know it's wrong, but thier concept of the world and right and wrong isn't fully developed yet, and sometimes kids will equate shooting someone with stealing things, they're both wrong but sometimes kids don't have a grasp on just how wrong some things are.

but i'm no expert.
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apparently morals and personality and crap is supposed to be set at 12. they just let their anger get the best of them, or dont think abouit consequences or just think they're invincible. i just came from being 14 15 16 17 18
 
epp_b said:
So a 14 or 15 or 17 year old doesn't "know better" than to steal or murder? Give me a break.
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They don't understand the permanence of their choices. They don't have a fully developed cognitive ability for abstract thought, so although they may know it is wrong they don't understand the consequences of those actions. So they may understand they have been told something is wrong, but they can't fully comprehend why it is wrong. They have just enough abstract reasoning ability to question why, but not to understand the answer.
 
So, you're telling me that a 15-year-old cannot understand that killing someone means:
- That person's life is over, they are dead
- You could spend many years in jail
- They're in deep crap

I could fully understand that when I was ten.
 
epp_b said:
That fact of the matter is that they know better and they went and did it anyways. End of story.
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That is utter bullshit. Utter, utter, UTTER bullshit. How many parents are there in the states? Let's say 100mill. So, there are 50 mill couples, all with different oppinions, and in your view, they should be able to do whatever they want, they know better? This isn't a horse, it's a child.

zenkidori said:
keep in mind most of the people on this site are like 13 years old.
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Really? Never noticed. See some bad spelling - not to mention my bad spelling - but apart from that, this site seems to have a quite mature body of users.
 
epp_b said:
So, you're telling me that a 15-year-old cannot understand that killing someone means:
- That person's life is over, they are dead
- You could spend many years in jail
- They're in deep crap

I could fully understand that when I was ten.
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Very good, you are catching on. That is exactly what I am saying, hell, it's what I have seen first hand. I have talked to teens who planned to commit suicide and then talked about going to school on the following Monday. They just don't fathom the permanence of the consequences. It is truly beyond their comprehension.
 
Then, my friend, you have spoken to very stupid teens.
 
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