Global Warming - A swindle

[otispunkmeyer]

Channel 4 Aired a program on thursday night about how global warming was a big swindle

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=9005566792811497638&hl=en

it explained that CO2 and GW has now become so big that the science doesnt really matter, its a politcal tool of power and has a mass following like any other religion. along with that it explains that a whole industry is now based on GW and that coming out with the true facts about GW would essentially destroy an industry and lose tens of thousands of people their jobs. so the incentive is there to keep the CO2 smoke screen up.

i for one believe this to be the case.

Global Warming beacause of mans CO2 = bollocks is what this program basically said. alot of respectable scientists and meterologists appeared on the show, one guy even admiting that the CO2 scare is good for him because it means he and his research dept can reel in the cash. they explained that the earth has heated up a cooled down cyclicly for 1000's of years and that CO2 never played a big part in that so why should it now? (taking into account the infintessimal increases of CO2 in the grandscheme of things)

-more Detailed info taken from the show

CO2 makes up 0.05% of earths atmosphere, and only a tiny proportion of that is due to man. Volcanoes produce more CO2 than all of the worlds industry, so too do animals and decomposing wild life+vegetation, but the biggest CO2 emitter is actually the Ocean which covers 2/3 of the planet. Mans contribution to CO2 is so insignificant its not even funny. CO2 isnt even a pollutant its just part of the carbon cycle that is the basis of every living thing.

they said Al Gore was actually correct when he said there is a correlation between temp rise and CO2, but what he forgot to mention was the link was the other way around. infact it was actually discovered that CO2 doesnt cause rise in temperatures, . Rise in temperatures causes increases in CO2.

this is then proven on the show using records dating back 1000's of years, it is explained the ocean is one of the biggest emitters of CO2 and that it can be shown that in periods where the sun produces more heat they see earths temperatures rise, followed 800 years later in a similar rise in CO2 - ie the hotter the Oceans the more CO2 they release, and it takes about 800 years for the sun to change the temp of the oceans.

records also show what is basically a sine wave of hot and cold....... over the years the earth has naturally, without mans help, had major cold spells, then hot spells, then cold again.

people worry about polar bears n such, yet they are still here today despite living through one of the hottest periods of earths life ever (this period was also much hotter than what have today)

they also explained that if CO2 was to blame, the atmosphere should be heating up at a faster rate than the actual ground. theory and models predict this should be the case, yet the atmosphere isnt heating up faster at all.

now this is obviosly a one sided program so its wise to take things with some salt, i also havent finished watching it yet but i believe what is being presented.

politicians havent got a clue. this "scientific community" they call on every time as some kind of basis for proof of CO2 being the cause of GW has 2500 "scientists" but it is explained that alot of these people arent scientists at all....they are on the list for being merely associated with some scientists and politicians. its also pointed out that many on this list also dont agree that CO2 is the cause.

if anyone has seen it please feel free to comment. its on my Sky+ box so im gonna try get it off some how, and then rip it and see if i can host it somewhere.

 

[Interrobang]

You are aware about the rather recent IPCC Assessment report, are you? And you are aware the IPCC is (and was in the older Reports) being criticized by bascally all the Enviromentalists for under-stating dangers of Climate Change , are you?

If the IPCC states in their very compromise-orientated and rather conservative Report, man-made (not to be mistaken with "car-made") CO2 has a major effect on climate Change, I?m going to agree with them. If even the US-President starts talking about Changes in Politics due to this, I?m not going do disbelive it just because some few Scientists and Lobbyists have different Opinions.

Think what you want to think, belive what you want to belive. I think it?s right to start looking now how we might soften the Blow the Climatechange will be bringing (there is no avoiding it, but we can help not letting it get worse).

 

[Red_Bull]

Alot of politicians and people in positions of power are talking of the damaging impact man is having on GW. I feel these people are being truthful as it would suit their agenda much more if we kept up the burning of fossil fuels and other environmentally (but profit generating) harming practices.

I think man is having a significant impact on GW, but I'd be delighted to be proven wrong.

 

[Blind_Io]

efoolution,

The US President isn't concerned about climate change because it's good science, he's "concerned" about it because it's good politics - big difference. He makes most his money from the oil industry, most of his campaign contributions came from the oil industry. He only shows token interest in global warming to help appease the moderate mini-van driving suburbanite with 2.3 kids who only know what CNN and FOX tell them.

 

[Ultra_Kool_Dude]

That's a very interesting documentary. It was well worth watching.

 

[ryosuke]

i really don't know what i should believe...


one side says cows make for more GW than cars, the next side says CO2 is causes by GW, the next side says that even mars heats up due to the sun emitting more heat and thus GW isn't caused by factors on the earth alone and of course there is man made GW due to the industry and cars.

 

[cvrefugee]

efoolution,

The US President isn't concerned about climate change because it's good science, he's "concerned" about it because it's good politics - big difference. He makes most his money from the oil industry, most of his campaign contributions came from the oil industry. He only shows token interest in global warming to help appease the moderate mini-van driving suburbanite with 2.3 kids who only know what CNN and FOX tell them.

http://www.opensecrets.org/pubs/toporgs/party.asp

A 41% vs 59% split received in donations from "big business" isn't that big of a difference. If you look at labor organizations, there's a 94% vs. 6% split between the Democrats and Republicans - now that's some shit right there.

 

[Goose+]

This was a very one sided programme, hence why it was on four and not on the BBC. Despite it raising some interesting points I still think man is to blame for global warming.

 

[Blind_Io]

Of course labor organizations are going to be democrats, the dems are pro-union while the republicans are on the side of big business.

 

[Cobol74]

I saw the program and to be honest its ideas fit more with my understanding of history and of the weather than the "its all mans fault theory", but I am here to be persuaded otherwise. One point made was that water vapour is a green house gas too, so those Hydrogen cars are out if that's the case as they emit H2O.

Industrialisation only started in the early 1900s so prior to that there was very little man made CO2 and yet there have been periods of warmth and ice ages in cycles since time began.

I need alot more evidence that suddenly the place is warming up due to the emission of CO2 produced by man.

One worry I have is that Atomic energy is on the agenda again having been soundly dismissed as a barking mad idea - Chernobyl/Three Mile Island/Windscale anyone?

The one and only justification for this is now that it does not produce CO2, so thats all right then, not sure on this.

By the way it was the IPCC that was taken to task for not being a proper scientific organisation but a play thing of Politicians in the programme.

 

[otispunkmeyer]

You are aware about the rather recent IPCC Assessment report, are you? And you are aware the IPCC is (and was in the older Reports) being criticized by bascally all the Enviromentalists for under-stating dangers of Climate Change , are you?

If the IPCC states in their very compromise-orientated and rather conservative Report, man-made (not to be mistaken with "car-made") CO2 has a major effect on climate Change, I?m going to agree with them. If even the US-President starts talking about Changes in Politics due to this, I?m not going do disbelive it just because some few Scientists and Lobbyists have different Opinions.

Think what you want to think, belive what you want to belive. I think it?s right to start looking now how we might soften the Blow the Climatechange will be bringing (there is no avoiding it, but we can help not letting it get worse).

well i think you should watch this video if i can get it uploaded. im really not here to argue with anyone or attack anyone, i might be takin this the wrong way but your post seems a little aggrivated to me.

if something has to be done, (i surely dont know what so i cant say if something should or shouldnt) then i think the guys making the moves need to consider the whole arguement wich at the moment they arent doing. for me personally i see GW as another way for English governments to rape my bank account even more.

basically scientists interviewd here, some of whom submitted work to this IPCC report you mention basically flat out said that they had no been listened too. that their work was manipulated and omitted because it did not agree with this GW idea. one guy even went so far as to threaten legal action to get them to remove his name from the authors list.

seriously there are some respectable guys here including former New Scientist editor and the co-founder of green peace, who himself now doesnt agree with what the green movement are doing. he goes so far as to say that the current "green movement" is basically denying 3rd world countries from developing at all, forcing them to leave their oil,gas and coal reserves untouched and instead adopt the most expensive and unreliable means of energy generation such as solar panels.

from this video i get the impression the IPCC isnt exactly reliable. some of the listed scientists dont actually agree at all, others arent even proper scientists, some on this program basically admit to sensationalising the issue because thats the best way for them to recieve funding.

the former new scientist editor said this (well something like this) " if i want to do a study on squirrils and their nut collecting habits, ill entitle my report investigation into english squirril nut collecting habits with regards to global warming. if i forget the global warming part i probably wont get any funding"

i think basically the IPCC is guilty in someway of supressing the arguement by filtering the stuff that goes against it

many many tens of thousands of jobs depend solely on the issue of GW and if one day GW is basically debunked..... those people no longer have jobs, the funding will dry up...people dont want that.

this isnt about GW anymore than its about getting paid and maintaining a livelyhood

please watch the video, link is in the OP, and tell me what you think of it

 

[otispunkmeyer]

efoolution,

The US President isn't concerned about climate change because it's good science, he's "concerned" about it because it's good politics - big difference. He makes most his money from the oil industry, most of his campaign contributions came from the oil industry. He only shows token interest in global warming to help appease the moderate mini-van driving suburbanite with 2.3 kids who only know what CNN and FOX tell them.

yes thats what i feel too. GW is happening but no one really knows what the cause is.

all current models for modelling the situation are all based on assumptions and the model is only as good as the assumptions. the major one being that CO2 is the cause. thats the main assuption. so of course if you put more CO2 in the model....temperatures rise. its not suprising is it.

scientists in this documentary talk about how they are pushed out. the minute they say hang on a second thats not right they are immediately labeled as being paid by a big multinational oil company. the incentive is not there to make a stand. its better for their professional lives to go with the flow.

one report talked about how mosquitos will move north as the temp gets warmer. citing that mosquitos cannot survive where the average temperature is 16-18 deg C.

this documentary spoke to the leading expert on mosquitos and insect based diseases and he said categorically that that simply isnt the case, mosquitos thrive in cold weather and the massive epidemic of malaira in Russia in the 1920's proves that with 6million dead. thats why he got his name removed from the paper....they basically never listend to a word he said because it did not fit the GW arguement

another mis-fact is that GW causes all these major storms. meterologists on the documentary say that the difference in temp between the poles and tropics is the reason for the storms. with GW the delta would be much less and therefore the storms should be less intense and less frequent. it makes sense.


BTW: whats the best way to get this off my sky box so i can share it? i dont have a DVD recorder only a VHS, i dont think i have anyway of getting it to a PC.

if possible can i mail someone the VHS tape and can they convert?

 

[Ultra_Kool_Dude]

Here's the link btw:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=9005566792811497638&hl=en

 

[otispunkmeyer]

i really don't know what i should believe...


one side says cows make for more GW than cars, the next side says CO2 is causes by GW, the next side says that even mars heats up due to the sun emitting more heat and thus GW isn't caused by factors on the earth alone and of course there is man made GW due to the industry and cars.

i dont want to believe any of them, though i do believe what is said in this program when say that the GW debate is about more than just GW....with so many jobs and so much money involved in it, its hard to believe that everyones agenda is focused on GW, where theres money and lots of it, there is corruption and truth bending. no one in their right mind is gonna sacrifice great pay, funding and a stable job.

this shows in some of these interviews, some mention that they have glorified, dramatised effects of GW just to get their stuff published and recieve more money, some said they even went the opposite to what they said just to get the media to listen. environmental journos have to come up with more and more ludicrous fates with each story so that the newspaper will keep paying them. its all about money.

the GW idea was given about 30 year ago when there was abit of a global cooling scare, that perhaps CO2 may be the ticket to warming the earth back up and that idea has stuck since then.

theres so much mis-information about that its really hard for people like me to form a correct opinion. my opinion as it stands now is that mans effect on GW isnt as big as the media and politcians would like me to think it is.

i agree with one guys analogy from the documentary

he said its like your car not running well.... you ignore the engine, which is the sun, you ignore the drive train which is the clouds and sea and earth etc and instead your focusing on one wheel nut on the right rear wheel which is the GW

now i dont think its as insignificant as that one wheel nut, i agree with the message that we are only looking at a tiny slice of the pie....if we want to make the difference we should be looking at all of the pie.

again a number of them commented on how some of the most recent reports flat out ignored all previous recorded and documented science and specifically ignored other key factors like the sun etc.

its a pissing match now, and theres lots of wonga involved.

 

[otispunkmeyer]

This was a very one sided programme, hence why it was on four and not on the BBC. Despite it raising some interesting points I still think man is to blame for global warming.

its always been up to Channel 4 to go against the grain. thats the very reason why they still exist.

 

[Goose+]

its always been up to Channel 4 to go against the grain. thats the very reason why they still exist.

They created Jade Goody..

 

[otispunkmeyer]

They created Jade Goody..

hell they created "sitting in a house watching people sitting in a house" and T4, and Holly Oaks... theres alot of shit on that channel but every now and then something interesting pops up thats worth the time of day to watch.

 

[jayjaya29]

When you look at the hard data, it becomes evident that global warming is happening.


As for the comment about hydrogen cars emitting H2O as emissions....where do you think they got the hydrogen in the first place? H2O of course, its a zero-net-change effect. The water you use to create hydrogen is the same amount of water that is emitted when you put it back together again. No problems here.

 

[Cobol74]

The show was saying that the world was indeed heating up, but it was not due to CO2 released by mans' activities. It is all part of normal cyclic heating and cooling effects. Sorry my water vapour comment was supposed to be a bit ironic really. I think that the real problem is the global warming theory is caused by CO2 has become an orthodoxy that permits no dissent. Instead of debating the point the opinion holder is held up to ridicule - known as playing the man not the ball.

 

[YF19pilot]

When you look at the hard data, it becomes evident that global warming is happening.


As for the comment about hydrogen cars emitting H2O as emissions....where do you think they got the hydrogen in the first place? H2O of course, its a zero-net-change effect. The water you use to create hydrogen is the same amount of water that is emitted when you put it back together again. No problems here.

The main argument about global warming is what is causing it. There are too many people who feel that human interferance is the sole reason -- upon which I call bull shit.

Also 'global warming' is often skewed to mean 'human poluting and causing a fuss with the enviroment'; which gets annoying and confusing at the same time :?