For Americans wondering "Why the hate?", some answers from PBS

[janstett]

Can't really compare a country to a religion. There's lots of Muslim engineers in the US making interesting stuff, I'm sure.

OK, fair enough; but I'm talking about measuring a society's contributions at large. I said the Islamic world, lump all of them together (in the Islamic World, they are Muslims first, their country comes second anyway), and tell me what contributions they have made to society in the last 700 years. I can think of the suicide bomber... Anything else? The Islamic world is a stagnating culture that is stuck in the 14th century.

If I were a Muslim engineering student, I would be saddened by it, and perhaps inspired to do better.

I might be wrong, but i'm pretty sure the islamic world invented math and medicine (shaking off the leeches and bloodletting of the greeks), hygiene and preserved the culture of the old roman empire.

All true, the Islamic world gave us coffee, advanced medicine, maintaining literacy in the dark ages, algebra, the numeric system we use today, the concept of "0", and probably several other things if I went to look them up.

However, that was all said and done by the 14th Century. What have they done in the last seven centuries?

America?

Burger and Camaro
(although i do find both of these things to be nice, a well made burger in a backyard grill > Mcdonalds )

I know you're a self-confessed lefty, but look past how worthless your pot-smelling 60's hippie teachers have told you this country is and look at a history book.

Some of the things not dripped in animal fat that the US has given the world: bifocals, the catheter, powered flight, electricity, the lightning rod, the fire company, the odometer, the light bulb, the telegraph, the telephone, the television, the phonograph (all recorded music), the kinescope (all recorded video), the transistor, the integrated circuit, the computer, the personal computer, the iPod, the mouse, the graphical user interface, the modem, the internet, email, Unix, the C and C++ languages, the web browser, the polio vaccine, first (and only) men on the moon, the artificial heart, the steam engine, the sewing machine, nuclear energy (good and bad), radar, sonar, microwave communication, lasers, fiber optics, the suspension bridge, radio Astronomy, the Big Bang theory, Madonna, and Brittney Spears.

But hey, the Brits make some nice... umm... Heath Computers? Harrier Jump Jets (nope that's being replaced by the American built F-35)? Angry, sarcastic talk show hosts?

In a scant 231 years, American inventors have changed life around the world. I'm sure that gets under the craw of some like the French, who have to invent french names for American terms like "website" and "airbag" lest their culture be dilluted.

I once got into a discussion on this board that ended us just comparing my lousy little state of New Jersey to the scientific accomplishments of all of England.

If I just mention my lousy state of New Jersey, you'll get the inventions of Thomas Edison, Bell Labs, and Sarnoff Labs. Here's an incomplete list:

Edison
gramophone/phonograph (recorded music)
kinetoscope (synched music to motion pictures - beginning of modern film)
motion picture camera
also began the motion picture industry, in New Jersey, not Hollywood
light bulb
synthetic rubber
stock ticker
vote recorder
parraffin paper
mimeographs
incandescent light
fluorescent light

Bell Labs (I work for a Bell Labs spinoff)
Unix
C and C++
Big Bang Theory
transistor
integrated circuit
radio astronomy
laser
information theory
fax
fiber optics
wireless networking

Sarnoff Labs I worked there for about a year
Television (Top Gear girl tried to argue that TV was invented in Britain, when it was in fact a viewmaster)
phosphors for the first CRT
infrared cameras
"Immy" camera tube (which the Emmy's are named for)
Sonar
Radar
TV-guided missiles
color television
magnetic video tape
liquid crystal displays
ccd image capture
digital satellite broadcasting
HDTV (partial)

Tell me about the computer you're typing on... Using some non-American operating system, is it? Windows, Microsoft... nope. Apple, OSX, Berkeley Unix... nope. Linux, Unix... nope. (Yes, I know about Linus Torvalds and how he ripped off his Minix course book, I had the same book in college too).

Are you getting the point? Camaros and Burgers, indeed... You can mention the crap, but don't forget the good...

For every Camaro, there's the Jeep. For every burger, there's the SR-71. For every Britney Spears video, there's the moon landings.

 

[janstett]

1. I agree on a lot of the stuff you're saying.
2. Socialism? Leninism? What the hell are you talking about? Leninism and the social state can't be compared, then you had to say that one of the most strategically important allies the United States had during the cold war (Norway, like it or not) were communist. That would be a bit like comparing Hitler to Bush.

In my view, socialism taken to the extreme conclusion is Marxist/Leninist -- totalitarian state control over the people, where misery is spread equally and only the political class prospers. The current atmosphere of "political correctness" exists to squash dissent and despite the claims of tolerance, some of the socialist-leaning activists we have here are some of the most intolerant people I know. If you don't embrace the leftist religion of socialism or one of its tenets like Global Warming, you are a pariah to be shouted down and silenced -- "The debate is over", after all. I see the socialist movement as a mask for totalitarianism. I see people espousing socialism so that they can have control over people's lives. For example, in New York they banned smoking; now they recently banned trans-fat; they are suggesting to ban listening to iPods. If someone wants to harm themselves, I say that's their decision. I don't want some untouchable government bureaucrat running my life. I think of the untouchable municipal troll who collects my property taxes every quarter, and how much of a misery he can make my life, and I don't want any more of them in any other aspects of my life.

And please don't try to say that socialized education means poor education,

Perhaps this is an American trait that is disappearing. I distrust my government. I see them as fundamentally incompetant and I want them involved in my life as little as possible. That includes education and health care. When I look at a government program, I see fraud, waste, corruption, and political agenda. I went to a public school and saw the corruption, hypocrisy, and crumbling standards in action; my high educational standards were maintained in spite of the school environment by self motivation. I see the insane amounts of money spent on an education system that is getting worse and I want to see it torn down and started anew. I cannot think of a government program that has ever been successful and/or efficient (ok perhaps Army Corps of Engineers projects). Left or right, Republican or Democrat, the programs never achieve their goals (be it Johnson's War on Poverty or Bush 41's War on Drugs) but their budgets escalate every year. More money, more money, we can finally do our jobs with more money. But the purpose of the program would be defeated if they accomplished their goals. I see through it. Politicians do not exist to solve problems; they exist to exploit them.

Here we have some businesses run by the government, and they are always screwed up and worse than their free market competitors -- e.g. US Post Office versus UPS, FedEx; AmTrak versus private rail companies. I also think you have to look at the mentality of someone who decides to become a bureaucrat -- they're looking for a nice, cushy, stress-free job with benefits and virtual life-long employment. Not exactly society's go-getters.

Hatchbacks are not popular in the US. There's one reason why VW puts a boot on the Golf, and that's the United States.

Are you trying to say that the Jetta is a "big American car"? I'm confused. I assumed you had the image in your head of a 30 foot long square-edged Lincoln Town Car when you said it.

 

[janstett]

On the French

On the French

I downloaded the full episode and caught the French segment which I missed off the air. I found it interesting that the French ditz in the bar was calling America racist in every city to the core (except New York)... Since I know how the French isolate their immigrant Muslim population to ghettos isolated from the rest of society; last year's riots did not go unnoticed by me. And I know how much they hate anything non-French... Le Hypocrite!

 

[teeb]

Some of the things not dripped in animal fat that the US has given the world: bifocals, the catheter, powered flight, electricity, the lightning rod, the fire company, the odometer, the light bulb, the telegraph, the telephone, the television, the phonograph (all recorded music), the kinescope (all recorded video), the transistor, the integrated circuit, the computer, the personal computer, the iPod, the mouse, the graphical user interface, the modem, the internet, email, Unix, the C and C++ languages, the web browser, the polio vaccine, first (and only) men on the moon, the artificial heart, the steam engine, the sewing machine, nuclear energy (good and bad), radar, sonar, microwave communication, lasers, fiber optics, the suspension bridge, radio Astronomy, the Big Bang theory, Madonna, and Brittney Spears.

But hey, the Brits make some nice... umm... Heath Computers? Harrier Jump Jets (nope that's being replaced by the American built F-35)? Angry, sarcastic talk show hosts?

Er, what? The telephone and the television were British inventions. The first programmable computer was built in Britain. Steam engines were in use both in Roman times and the Arab world in the 14th CEntury.

Inventing Britney Spears is not something to be proud of.


edit : and listing things your country has given us isn't really pushing the argument forward much. I could give you a long list of things the Scots have invented too...I'm willing to bet government meddling and censorship also hinders scientific progress in Muslim countries, too. Look at Iran, for example.

 

[speedyvespa]

Brilliant Post. Finally a fair and proper "comparisson" from someone who has obviously experienced both places. BTW, how long have you been in the US and where in the US have you been?

I'm in Minneapolis, been here for about 4 years. Great city, great people - a very liberal state, laid back and friendly.

It's odd though, the adaptation of the term 'liberal' here. It's a placard for right-leaning types/conservatives to wave when they hear any kind of policy statement or social value that they don't agree with... "goddam liberals" etc. Well, much of what they rail against has nothing to do with 'liberal' politics.

It's alarming to me when people don't understand what it is they don't believe in. Socialism is not communism, and liberalism (whether it be applicable to politics, ethics, social values, education etc) has as much to do with Stalin/Trotsky/Lenin as it has to do with a small piece of cheese.

It is sad when people with a public profile (whether it be Jeremy Clarkson making incorrect and unqualified remarks about 'Americans') or 3 out of 5 Republican presidential candidates saying they don't believe in evolution (and then openly demonstrating they don't know ANYTHING about the theory of evolution) - it's no wonder that 1) non-Brits regard Brits as having a stuck-up, groundless superiority complex and 2) Americans are dumb.

I don't necessarily hold it against 'ordinary' people for being mislead or holding opinions where the dots don't join up (though more thorough research would make the world a more clement place, for sure), but I do expect people in the media or public office to understand and respect that people will take their views lock, stock and barrel. And if they don't have a mandate, they should just shut up.

And - I can't remember who it was who said this - fear not, schools are not teaching kids how to put condoms on in place or reading and writing. That sounds like a rant out of a crackpot right-wing pundit (is Ann Coulter on here?).

And even if they were, why is this the fault of left wing politics? Left-wing education policies are classically traditionalist. Right-wing education policies are notoriously 'experimental', which is code for saying let's reformat education so we can give more tax cuts.

And socialism regards unemployment as intolerable. If you can contribute to society and work, you should work - do something. Right-wing politics dictates that unemployment is an acceptable factor of a free market capitalism.

And by the way - I wouldn't decribe myself as right or left wing. I just like to get the facts straight. A bit like Clarkson should at times...

Just thought I would let you know.

 

[nomix]

In my view, socialism taken to the extreme conclusion is Marxist/Leninist -- totalitarian state control over the people, where misery is spread equally and only the political class prospers. The current atmosphere of "political correctness" exists to squash dissent and despite the claims of tolerance, some of the socialist-leaning activists we have here are some of the most intolerant people I know.

What you're saying there, is incorrect. You grab some extreme cases, and call them the rule.

If you don't embrace the leftist religion of socialism or one of its tenets like Global Warming, you are a pariah to be shouted down and silenced -- "The debate is over", after all.

Well, that's an issue. But to be true, what you call socialism is nowhere near what socialism is.

I see the socialist movement as a mask for totalitarianism. I see people espousing socialism so that they can have control over people's lives. For example, in New York they banned smoking; now they recently banned trans-fat; they are suggesting to ban listening to iPods.

1. You're wrong, you're just seeing socialism as one big lump, which is a bit like saying that there's no difference between, let's say a catholic and a baptist.
2. Well, banning smoking in public spaces is more about the freedom of those who don't smoke to exist in an environment which isn't full of smoke. If you've got asthma, you're very sick if you get smoke in your lungs. I know a couple of door men at some bars, they notice the difference, before, when you could smoke inside, they usually got sick for a couple of days cause of the smoke. Now, they don't get sick. That is actually quite a result, would you not say?
Further, transfat isn't good for you, is it? Well, I get your point. As long as the only person you hurt is yourself, I think you should be alloved to do what ever the heck you like. What about weed, then? You only hurt yourself. And calling New York socialistic is bull. Actually, you can have totalitarianism without socialism, the slight lean towards banning shit in New York sounds like totalitarianism, not socialism. Please don't confuse the terms.

Oh, and the iPod-thing seems just stupid. What's that about?

If someone wants to harm themselves, I say that's their decision. I don't want some untouchable government bureaucrat running my life.

Do you have the right to hurt others then? Cause that's what you're doing when you're smoking in a public space. Indirect smoking does kill, more people than you could imagine, every single year.

I think of the untouchable municipal troll who collects my property taxes every quarter, and how much of a misery he can make my life, and I don't want any more of them in any other aspects of my life.

Point is, the idea of socialism isn't endless restrictions per say, it's solidarity. There's nothing, listen now, nothing wrong with solidarity.

Seems to me that the current administration intrudes a lot, doesn't it? If you're gay, they're working to make sure you can't get married. You have a moralist government, that's worse. A lot worse.

Perhaps this is an American trait that is disappearing. I distrust my government. I see them as fundamentally incompetant and I want them involved in my life as little as possible.

That is quite American, I guess. But quite irrasional in most democratic countries, you can actually vote for another leader. But I do see how the current administration, and the previous, might make you think that the government can't be trusted, and, I guess, with BUsh at the wheel, you're right. But please don't call Bush a socialist.

That includes education and health care. When I look at a government program, I see fraud, waste, corruption, and political agenda.

While the private sector is free of corruption, fraud and political agenda. Know what, sometimes, it isn't.

I went to a public school and saw the corruption, hypocrisy, and crumbling standards in action; my high educational standards were maintained in spite of the school environment by self motivation. I see the insane amounts of money spent on an education system that is getting worse and I want to see it torn down and started anew. I cannot think of a government program that has ever been successful and/or efficient (ok perhaps Army Corps of Engineers projects). Left or right, Republican or Democrat, the programs never achieve their goals (be it Johnson's War on Poverty or Bush 41's War on Drugs) but their budgets escalate every year. More money, more money, we can finally do our jobs with more money. But the purpose of the program would be defeated if they accomplished their goals. I see through it. Politicians do not exist to solve problems; they exist to exploit them.

That's a problem with the US, and it's NOT socialism.

Here we have some businesses run by the government, and they are always screwed up and worse than their free market competitors -- e.g. US Post Office versus UPS, FedEx; AmTrak versus private rail companies. I also think you have to look at the mentality of someone who decides to become a bureaucrat -- they're looking for a nice, cushy, stress-free job with benefits and virtual life-long employment. Not exactly society's go-getters.

So, you know many bureaucrats? That's a bit like saying that nurses in Norway take their jobs to get a cushy job with benefits and so on. Which is disrespectful to the wast majority of nurses in Norway, and anywhere else, who do their job because they think they should, because they want to help people and so on.

Are you trying to say that the Jetta is a "big American car"? I'm confused. I assumed you had the image in your head of a 30 foot long square-edged Lincoln Town Car when you said it.

Not at all. I'm saying that Americans don't buy the Golf, because it's a hatchback. And that seems to symbolize some type of mentality. And whatever you say, cars are generally bigger in the US than they are in, let's say Europe. But I've also said that's natural, because, obviously, it's a very big country.

 

[zenkidori]

this thread went downhill, but I'd like to answer this:

Not at all. I'm saying that Americans don't buy the Golf, because it's a hatchback.

the golf and hatchbacks in general are actually very popular, at least here they are.

 

[speedyvespa]

What you're saying there, is incorrect. You grab some extreme cases, and call them the rule.



Well, that's an issue. But to be true, what you call socialism is nowhere near what socialism is.



1. You're wrong, you're just seeing socialism as one big lump, which is a bit like saying that there's no difference between, let's say a catholic and a baptist.
2. Well, banning smoking in public spaces is more about the freedom of those who don't smoke to exist in an environment which isn't full of smoke. If you've got asthma, you're very sick if you get smoke in your lungs. I know a couple of door men at some bars, they notice the difference, before, when you could smoke inside, they usually got sick for a couple of days cause of the smoke. Now, they don't get sick. That is actually quite a result, would you not say?
Further, transfat isn't good for you, is it? Well, I get your point. As long as the only person you hurt is yourself, I think you should be alloved to do what ever the heck you like. What about weed, then? You only hurt yourself. And calling New York socialistic is bull. Actually, you can have totalitarianism without socialism, the slight lean towards banning shit in New York sounds like totalitarianism, not socialism. Please don't confuse the terms.

Oh, and the iPod-thing seems just stupid. What's that about?


Do you have the right to hurt others then? Cause that's what you're doing when you're smoking in a public space. Indirect smoking does kill, more people than you could imagine, every single year.


Point is, the idea of socialism isn't endless restrictions per say, it's solidarity. There's nothing, listen now, nothing wrong with solidarity.

Seems to me that the current administration intrudes a lot, doesn't it? If you're gay, they're working to make sure you can't get married. You have a moralist government, that's worse. A lot worse.


That is quite American, I guess. But quite irrasional in most democratic countries, you can actually vote for another leader. But I do see how the current administration, and the previous, might make you think that the government can't be trusted, and, I guess, with BUsh at the wheel, you're right. But please don't call Bush a socialist.


While the private sector is free of corruption, fraud and political agenda. Know what, sometimes, it isn't.


That's a problem with the US, and it's NOT socialism.


So, you know many bureaucrats? That's a bit like saying that nurses in Norway take their jobs to get a cushy job with benefits and so on. Which is disrespectful to the wast majority of nurses in Norway, and anywhere else, who do their job because they think they should, because they want to help people and so on.


Not at all. I'm saying that Americans don't buy the Golf, because it's a hatchback. And that seems to symbolize some type of mentality. And whatever you say, cars are generally bigger in the US than they are in, let's say Europe. But I've also said that's natural, because, obviously, it's a very big country.

Hurrah. Well said.

I'm not as lonely on here as I thought I was. I love performance cars (or in general, good car design - or good anything design) and I don't believe that anybody who needs help is a scrounger.

Why is it that sometimes, I sense that this list reflects a view that these two opinions are mutually exclusive? Of course - I may be extremely wrong in that view and deserve to be flamed alive if I am. Just a casual observation!

To non-UK listers, an interesting fact that you may or may not know. Clarkson almost entirely bases his on-screen persona around Alan Partridge, and that's why it's so funny. To me, anyway... (quoth: "and on that bombshell...", or how about "you couldn't shoot it in the face", or even "Look at that! Full head of hair").

Which says to me that his on-screen, non-PC persona isn't the real JC exactly. I would hate anyone to think he's being sincere when in fact he's effecting the comedy of a very laughed-at, non-cool fictional character. If you're unsure.... youtube for Alan Partridge. A pr1ck if ever there was one, but an extremely funny pr1ck.

 

[thedguy]

1. I agree on a lot of the stuff you're saying.
2. Socialism? Leninism? What the hell are you talking about? Leninism and the social state can't be compared, then you had to say that one of the most strategically important allies the United States had during the cold war (Norway, like it or not) were communist. That would be a bit like comparing Hitler to Bush.

One thing about America I don't get, is that anything that deviates from the norm, the general liberalistic thinking, is leftist. You know what? It isn't. On one side, I might agree. The idea of free health care is a socialist concept. If you believe in it, does that make you a socialist? Not necessarily. Michael Moore for instance, is portayed as a leftist liberal in the US, which really isn't true. In fact, he's a lot more to the right.

The problem we've had is the retarded communist scare, which has now been replaced with "terrorists." The thing I find weird about the use of the term "liberal" is that the people branded it are arguable wanting to take away freedoms... if we went socialized health care and dumped the insurance companies, I'd no longer have a choice in my health care provider for instance... how is that liberal thought?

And please don't try to say that socialized education means poor education, then you'd have to prove that the Soviet school system gave the Soviet Union people without basic skills, while the truth is that the USSR did have some very, very impressive mathematicians. Even if the USSR had other issues, the system gave the world great scientists.

Further, the biggest reason, in my mind is the fact that we're evolving as a society. I'll leave it to you to think about what changes makes a difference.

Our education system has gone to shit because now we only "teach for the test." All in an effort to make the district look good. If I'm not mistaken this is becoming a significant issue in the UK as well.

I fear the day the US school system goes privatized. I can already see people not putting their kids in school because they can make $6.75/hour at McD's to help them buy that big screen tv.

Hatchbacks are not popular in the US. There's one reason why VW puts a boot on the Golf, and that's the United States.

Am I? Really, the power to volume ratio of the most important American sports car, the Vette, can't be compared to any sports car from either Japan or Europe.

The golf gained a boot, but it's not exactly a 1976 Cadillac El Dorado Brougham, that makes a Benz Pullman limo appear small. The most common car I see out here in Missouri is the 2000-20007Chevy Monte Carlo/Impala (and it's derivatives) which until the last 2 years didn't even have a V8 engine option. The biggest v6 was a supercharged 3.8liter at 260-280hp. Lots of Chevy Aveo's (daewoo matiz), Cobalts, MKI Focus and Fusion/500/Taurus.

Interesting enough, many of the owners who own those v6 GM's, even with the SC 3.8's, are claiming 30mpg (US gallon) or better on the highways. They may be crap in many forum members opinions, but you gotta admit a 5 series sized car, with v8 like power, and Civic like fuel economy and reliability, at a cheap Chevy price ain't a bad deal.

Couldn't agree more.

Good to see we are on the same page

Do you have the right to hurt others then? Cause that's what you're doing when you're smoking in a public space. Indirect smoking does kill, more people than you could imagine, every single year.

The problem I have with smoking bans is that it takes the rights away from business owners on private property. If I don't want people smoking around me I don't go into businesses that allow smoking (or don't have a non smoking section), it's that simple. I can understand government buildings being non-smoking and what not, but business owners should be allowed to decide that on their own accord.

For every Camaro, there's the Jeep. For every burger, there's the SR-71. For every Britney Spears video, there's the moon landings.

All that stuff you mentioned and yet we seem to have a hard time making a good car... thats part of what pisses me off about this country, we are so god damn capable, and we refuse to do it.

Er, what? The telephone and the television were British inventions. The first programmable computer was built in Britain. Steam engines were in use both in Roman times and the Arab world in the 14th CEntury.

The electronic TV was a Utah kids Invention according to Clarkson. The first programable computer was locked away from the world and hidden away, so while it wasn't the first (Chinese beat you guys to it by some 1000 or so years), it didn't exactly revolutionize the world quite the same way the American transistor. You guys had a lot of stuff that could have done a lot more than win a war had your country done something with it.

I thought the Greeks had a form of a steam engine, but it was only used as a toy or a display.

Anyhow, from what I was told in school, the US didn't have a reputation for invention, so much as making everyone else's designs work, or work better. A bit like the Japanese have now.

 

[Scooby5]

Some of the things not dripped in animal fat that the US has given the world: bifocals, the catheter, powered flight, electricity, the lightning rod, the fire company, the odometer, the light bulb, the telegraph, the telephone, the television, the phonograph (all recorded music), the kinescope (all recorded video), the transistor, the integrated circuit, the computer, the personal computer, the iPod, the mouse, the graphical user interface, the modem, the internet, email, Unix, the C and C++ languages, the web browser, the polio vaccine, first (and only) men on the moon, the artificial heart, the steam engine, the sewing machine, nuclear energy (good and bad), radar, sonar, microwave communication, lasers, fiber optics, the suspension bridge, radio Astronomy, the Big Bang theory, Madonna, and Brittney Spears.

So you're the one that believes the movie U571 really WAS written about an American submarine?

The first useable Steam Engine is from Egypt. It can be argued the first Television is German. The first colour one was certainly Scottish. You might want to double check your source for the Suspension Bridge as well given rope bridges and decks date back before the US even came about.

I did think the Telephone was Scottish from A.G. Bell but it can also be argued it might be Italian but certainly not American. The Scots also brought you penicilin (read.... Fleming), Tarmac (read.... MacAdam) , the first inflatable tyre (read.... Dunlop) and many more. Paper is either from China or the Middle East depending on who you listen to more so don't pretend America can take credit for all the "important" things in life today. I still believe the moon landings didn't happen

As i said earlier, where we are today is only because of the combined effort made around the world so far. Where we will be in the future will only take this cooperation to the next level.

 

[ViperVX]

When you talk about the whole ?ountry, there's no need to list all inventions, acheivements & so on, cause most of it is arguable and irrelevant to the big picture. Every single country has their own heroes, let's forget about that for a min.
The facts are that Americans have very low avr. education level, America is more obese than ever. Two markets America dominates on are Weapons (also irrelevant, cause no1 wud start the 3rd world war) & entertainment. Movies, tv-shows & music. Although to be fair even the new NBC head exec is sayin' that TV is gettin weaker & losing total audience constantly.

The biggest credit i can give to americans, is that they've build such g strong system, that even a retard president & a whole bunch of gay - future cons senators cannot even damage.

Although the amount of coverage of Paris Hilton in the Jail story is a bit strange & proves a lot of "stereotype" points.

 

[Cobol74]

PH Nearest thing they have to a Royal. Look at our (not me.) obsession with Princess Di. Hell she's been dead 10 years and the press are still at it. Its like living your life through others, probably accounts for the popularity of Corrie and Enders.

 

[ViperVX]

Well in Princess Di. defence she accomplished a lot & was gonna be The Queen one day. As for PH, if she is to die soon, they'll probaby put a big granite cock instead of a headstone on her tomb & forget about her in like a month.

Then some1 will make the documentary : "The days of Paris", where all the increadably interesting aspects of her life will be shown in Full HD & slow mo, followed by "Paris on the quest to find herself" with the dramatic footage of Pairs going to jail for 21 days, after all that simply finish off with some happy huggin footage & a huge smiling Paris picture with "i'll always be with you" written on it. America will love it & they'll be like "She was an amazing person...".

Later it will be released on DVD with an hour of never-seen be4 footage, with Paris crying during award ceremonies, holding some1 else's baby, making promises to donate money & participate in some ?harity groups, givin' out her music cd's to a group of young girls -> black screen, old fashion 50's white aka handwritten line says "if only she had more time".

 

[Cobol74]

I agree, and I do not "blame" her. Its the press, I understand a Princess Di story sells papers and hence the prevalence of it all.

 

[No Boss]

this thread went downhill

What else were you expecting to happen?

 

[BigDaveDogg]

Well I skipped threw bits and pieces of this thread because I frankly didn't feel like reading it, and I don't expect anyone to necessarily read this with any interest in what I care to say, but I'll leave my 2 cents anyway. Stereotypes will always remain to the ignorant who don't seek to look past them. A few things I've read about that I agree with include most of the post from the British fellow who moved to Minneapolis, as well as the fact that the US is composed of a variety of types of people throughout different states, that a single stereotype is rather ridiculous. I'm also interested to notice that most people "across the pond" seem to have the answers to all questions about Americans, be it our society, culture, or politics. It's interesting how much you guys know, and/or think you know due to the US influence on the rest of the world (good or bad) vs. how much I personally know about Western Europe's. I'm just your average guy who hasn't studied your respective culture, society, and politics, as I figure a lot of you are? Being I don't know enough, I don't make assumptions or lead opinionated topics fueled by hear-say ignorant minded individuals. I will, however, note that as stated...many of the stereotypes toward Americans are false. Whether or not Europeans (or otherwise) will see that, is up to each individual. On that note, I've got to drop my parents off at the airport for their 2 week trip across Western Europe (odd coincidence, haha.)

 

[ejaymclane]

Some of the things not dripped in animal fat that the US has given the world: bifocals, the catheter, powered flight, electricity, the lightning rod, the fire company, the odometer, the light bulb, the telegraph, the telephone, the television, the phonograph (all recorded music), the kinescope (all recorded video), the transistor, the integrated circuit, the computer, the personal computer, the iPod, the mouse, the graphical user interface, the modem, the internet, email, Unix, the C and C++ languages, the web browser, the polio vaccine, first (and only) men on the moon, the artificial heart, the steam engine, the sewing machine, nuclear energy (good and bad), radar, sonar, microwave communication, lasers, fiber optics, the suspension bridge, radio Astronomy, the Big Bang theory, Madonna, and Brittney Spears.

But hey, the Brits make some nice... umm... Heath Computers? Harrier Jump Jets (nope that's being replaced by the American built F-35)? Angry, sarcastic talk show hosts?

In a scant 231 years, American inventors have changed life around the world. I'm sure that gets under the craw of some like the French, who have to invent french names for American terms like "website" and "airbag" lest their culture be dilluted.

I once got into a discussion on this board that ended us just comparing my lousy little state of New Jersey to the scientific accomplishments of all of England.

If I just mention my lousy state of New Jersey, you'll get the inventions of Thomas Edison, Bell Labs, and Sarnoff Labs. Here's an incomplete list:

Edison
gramophone/phonograph (recorded music)
kinetoscope (synched music to motion pictures - beginning of modern film)
motion picture camera
also began the motion picture industry, in New Jersey, not Hollywood
light bulb
synthetic rubber
stock ticker
vote recorder
parraffin paper
mimeographs
incandescent light
fluorescent light

Bell Labs (I work for a Bell Labs spinoff)
Unix
C and C++
Big Bang Theory
transistor
integrated circuit
radio astronomy
laser
information theory
fax
fiber optics
wireless networking

Sarnoff Labs I worked there for about a year
Television (Top Gear girl tried to argue that TV was invented in Britain, when it was in fact a viewmaster)
phosphors for the first CRT
infrared cameras
"Immy" camera tube (which the Emmy's are named for)
Sonar
Radar
TV-guided missiles
color television
magnetic video tape
liquid crystal displays
ccd image capture
digital satellite broadcasting
HDTV (partial)

Tell me about the computer you're typing on... Using some non-American operating system, is it? Windows, Microsoft... nope. Apple, OSX, Berkeley Unix... nope. Linux, Unix... nope. (Yes, I know about Linus Torvalds and how he ripped off his Minix course book, I had the same book in college too).

Are you getting the point? Camaros and Burgers, indeed... You can mention the crap, but don't forget the good...

For every Camaro, there's the Jeep. For every burger, there's the SR-71. For every Britney Spears video, there's the moon landings.

Good job claiming British inventions as American.

Here are some British inventions:

Radar
Fax machine
Electric motor
Electricmagnet
Cordite
Polyester
Rubber bands
Internal combustion engine
Jet engine
Steam engine
Locomotive
Lightbulbs
Pencillin
Steel production
Sewing machine
Seisometer
Seismograph
Vacumn Cleaner
World Wide Web


Dont believe me? Google Great British inventions for the names and dates of everything i have listed and more.


Oh and i had a good laugh at some of your 'inventions' such as the iPod. What exactly was invented there?

 

[thedguy]

Oh and i had a good laugh at some of your 'inventions' such as the iPod. What exactly was invented there?

A marketing ploy.

One thing that should be pointed out, and I'll let you guys argue amongst yourselves over who gets credit is this:
Many "American" inventions were from immigrants. But they either didn't do much with their ideas until they came here, or couldn't make them successful till the came here.

Then you have to ask, what defined an American back then... usually just anyone who came to the US and wanted a better life (at least thats my opinion).

 

[Hidden_Hunter]

What I wonder is that these people claiming that they're sterotyped as burger munching ignorent lard buckets by everyone if they do the same to other countries?

 

[ejaymclane]

This is the American attitude:

- Do what the fvck you like
- Suffer blowback
- Throw your hands in the air crying "why do they hate us?"


Certain people dont like the US, but its not because the American Empire marches on overthrowing governments (50 in the past 52 years), invading countries, forgetting its own past and re-writing history in its own favour, general arrogance over everything, bringing 'freedom' to countries with democratically elected governments, an attitude of "you are with us or against us", fear mongering, a war on 'terror' which had no end ever and thats the way they want it.

No, its because they are jealous you've got TWO Disney parks!! You lucky b'stards!